Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Barrie22]

I think the implication is that we get the draft capital.

I'd happily trade Blackwood for Campbell + Edmonton's unprotected 1st.

An unprotected 1st is not going to happen after Wilson changed the leagues thoughts on firsts being traded.

And to add to that a team that after 17 games into the season is not trading an unprotected 1st when they are only 4 points up on dead last in the league.

 

[Hodge]

Top 10 protected 1st, 2nd, 3rd and Campbell for Blackwood should be acceptable to both sides. Remove the 2nd if they're willing to take Kahkonen instead.

 

[stator]

I mean, this isn't ideal for the worst team in the league:
View attachment 771527
Look at Arizona by comparison:
View attachment 771528
It's just the reality of Grier inheriting a roster with zero valuable trade assets outside of Timo.

Darn good considering those ZTAs and bad contracts, I consider. I just wished Grier would have pulled off a Vlasic trade with surprising minimal retention and the draft capital looks the same. I would be singing Grier praises if that was the case.

Top 10 protected 1st, 2nd, 3rd and Campbell for Blackwood should be acceptable to both sides. Remove the 2nd if they're willing to take Kahkonen instead.

Goalies tend to take a performance hit coming to the Sharks. If that would be the case, wouldn't Campbell not be much of an improvement over Blackwood? Sharks would give up a lot of draft capital and pickup a larger hit on cap space.

 

[Hodge]

Darn good considering those ZTAs and bad contracts, I consider. I just wished Grier would have pulled off a Vlasic trade with surprising minimal retention and the draft capital looks the same. I would be singing Grier praises if that was the case.



Goalies tend to take a performance hit coming to the Sharks. If that would be the case, wouldn't Campbell not be much of an improvement over Blackwood? Sharks would give up a lot of draft capital and pickup a larger hit on cap space.

Not sure what you mean. I'm suggesting the Oilers pay us a 1st, 2nd and 3rd to dump Campbell's contract and upgrade in net with Blackwood.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Wilson changed the leagues thoughts on firsts being traded.

What?

 

[Hodge]

What?

Only GM in the cap era to trade an unprotected 1st rounder not once but twice.

Granted, I don't think the Stutzle faceplant really changed anyone's mind. Any GM who isn't a delusional narcissist already had the sense to lottery protect 1sts traded years in advance.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Only GM in the cap era to trade an unprotected 1st rounder not once but twice.

Granted, I don't think the Stutzle faceplant really changed anyone's mind. Any GM who isn't a delusional narcissist already had the sense to lottery protect 1sts traded years in advance.

The 1st that got Stutzle had conditions on it

GMs trade unprotected 1sts at the deadline all the time, but I guess thats not what you mean?

 

[TheBeard]

I mean, this isn't ideal for the worst team in the league:
View attachment 771527
Look at Arizona by comparison:
View attachment 771528
It's just the reality of Grier inheriting a roster with zero valuable trade assets outside of Timo.

This is also the product of a team that barely has a home and is constantly bailed out by the league so they could go ahead and be a contract graveyard for over a decade.

Top 10 protected 1st, 2nd, 3rd and Campbell for Blackwood should be acceptable to both sides. Remove the 2nd if they're willing to take Kahkonen instead.

I would do it for a top 5 or even 3 protected, but top ten with where they are doesn't do anything for me since I do believe next year they'll be a legit contender again.

 

[stator]

Not sure what you mean. I'm suggesting the Oilers pay us a 1st, 2nd and 3rd to dump Campbell's contract and upgrade in net with Blackwood.

Got it, thought you meant Sharks would give up all that for Campbell.

 

[tiburon12]

I would do 2024 top 10 protected Oilers 1st, 2025 Oilers 3rd and Campbell for Kahkonen. If they want Blackwood signed at a nice number for two years they'll have to add at least another 2nd.

I am bad at evaluating but was thinking

24 unprotected 1st + Campbell + Holloway <-> Blackwood + Ferraro

 

[Gecklund]

I don’t understand everyone’s eagerness to take on Campbell. A first is great and all but we finally have some cap flexibility. Now we are talking about taking on a 5M contract for the next 4 years? Anyone watch his AHL games? Because he was god awful in those too. Dude is not an NHL player and would just be eating into our cap space and we will be complaining about it in 2 months.

This stops us from getting a guy like Duclair for a 4th liner and also takes us out of the running if there’s an RFA that wants more money than their team can offer or young guys that get cap squeezed. A few guys that happened to recently: Yamamoto, Kostin, Colton, Blackwood, Sharangovich, Newhook (?), Durzi, Greenway.

Now is this some great list? No definitely not. But those are all at least third liners (or 3rd pairing or backups) that got moved for not much at all.

 

[fasterthanlight]

I don’t understand everyone’s eagerness to take on Campbell. A first is great and all but we finally have some cap flexibility. Now we are talking about taking on a 5M contract for the next 4 years? Anyone watch his AHL games? Because he was god awful in those too. Dude is not an NHL player and would just be eating into our cap space and we will be complaining about it in 2 months.

This stops us from getting a guy like Duclair for a 4th liner and also takes us out of the running if there’s an RFA that wants more money than their team can offer or young guys that get cap squeezed. A few guys that happened to recently: Yamamoto, Kostin, Colton, Blackwood, Sharangovich, Newhook (?), Durzi, Greenway.

Now is this some great list? No definitely not. But those are all at least third liners (or 3rd pairing or backups) that got moved for not much at all.

Agreed, one first wouldn't be enough imo. Didn't the leafs have to pay a first to get out of 1 year of Patrick Marleau at 6?

 

[Cas]

I don’t understand everyone’s eagerness to take on Campbell. A first is great and all but we finally have some cap flexibility. Now we are talking about taking on a 5M contract for the next 4 years? Anyone watch his AHL games? Because he was god awful in those too. Dude is not an NHL player and would just be eating into our cap space and we will be complaining about it in 2 months.

This stops us from getting a guy like Duclair for a 4th liner and also takes us out of the running if there’s an RFA that wants more money than their team can offer or young guys that get cap squeezed. A few guys that happened to recently: Yamamoto, Kostin, Colton, Blackwood, Sharangovich, Newhook (?), Durzi, Greenway.

Now is this some great list? No definitely not. But those are all at least third liners (or 3rd pairing or backups) that got moved for not much at all.

Campbell has three years at $5 million after this. We are not going to be good during the next three years and can always buy him out at whatever point we want to.

Maybe that prevents us from taking on one Duclair, which is fine because those guys probably aren't returning much in trade anyway (I think we will be happy to get a 4th for Duclair). Those guys are castoffs and not really that valuable, most of the time. Besides, we will have tons and tons of cap space for the next few years.

The key is to get a 1st. Odds are that 1st would be more valuable than any number of 4ths. That's what the benefit would be.

Agreed, one first wouldn't be enough imo. Didn't the leafs have to pay a first to get out of 1 year of Patrick Marleau at 6?

Value isn't linear. Just because Marleau came with a 1st doesn't mean that's where the market is now, or what any such trade would wind up at "market."

 

[fasterthanlight]

Value isn't linear. Just because Marleau came with a 1st doesn't mean that's where the market is now, or what any such trade would wind up at "market."

I guess it's worth it if that first is top 5, but it seems possible that it's more like 15-20th. I don't think the oilers will continue being this bad even if they don't make the playoffs. If it's 18th oa I don't think it's worth 3@5M

 

[Hodge]

We currently have $35 million in cap space next season and that’s before buying out Vlasic which is probably going to happen. At this point we’ll have trouble reaching the floor even with Campbell.

 

[Gecklund]

We currently have $35 million in cap space next season and that’s before buying out Vlasic which is probably going to happen. At this point we’ll have trouble reaching the floor even with Campbell.

Then you do what Chicago did and sign good vets for 1 year to surround your young guys with and trade them at the deadline.

You don’t add a long term overpriced contract for a guy that’s barely an AHL goalie right now.

 

[Hodge]

Then you do what Chicago did and sign good vets for 1 year to surround your young guys with and trade them at the deadline.

You don’t add a long term overpriced contract for a guy that’s barely an AHL goalie right now.

So it’s better to use cap space on guys who definitely won’t return us a 1st round pick rather than just taking the 1st+ for using the space on Campbell? How does that make any sense?

 

[Gecklund]

So it’s better to use cap space on guys who definitely won’t return us a 1st round pick rather than just taking the 1st+ for using the space on Campbell? How does that make any sense?

I mean why are you so sure that we won’t take on guys that can return a first? Also why are we so sure that we can’t add important players? Colton is a very good 3C. Blackwood has been stellar for us. Durzi has been great for ARI. Add Tolvanen to that list too.

 

[weastern bias]

The Campbell contract overlaps with the Eklund extention which has to happen while Vlasic, Couture and Hertl are still under contract, I wouldn't be willing to take him on without Edmonton's unprotected 2024 1st, which they won't do

Hard no on Laine, I wouldn't want him if we were still good, he's a terrible hockey player who has no NHL skills outside of an elite shot and he doesn't even score at a high level anymore, he's Brandon Pirri with draft pedigree

 

[Hodge]

I mean why are you so sure that we won’t take on guys that can return a first? Also why are we so sure that we can’t add important players? Colton is a very good 3C. Blackwood has been stellar for us. Durzi has been great for ARI. Add Tolvanen to that list too.

We can easily afford all of this stuff in addition to Campbell. Go pull up an armchair GM on Capfriendly for next season and look at how much space we have. The Campbell contract can also be bought out rather painlessly if that ever becomes necessary.

Starting summer 2024 the only cap problems the Sharks will have is figuring out how to hit the floor. Grier has effectively steered us out of cap hell. We can and should be aggressively adding cap dumps for picks and then flipping those picks for Colton or Durzi times. It doesn’t need to be one or the other, especially given that Couture and Hertl are likely to request a trade at some point in the next couple of seasons too.

 

[fasterthanlight]

We can easily afford all of this stuff in addition to Campbell. Go pull up an armchair GM on Capfriendly for next season and look at how much space we have. The Campbell contract can also be bought out rather painlessly if that ever becomes necessary.

Starting summer 2024 the only cap problems the Sharks will have is figuring out how to hit the floor. Grier has effectively steered us out of cap hell. We can and should be aggressively adding cap dumps for picks and then flipping those picks for Colton or Durzi times. It doesn’t need to be one or the other, especially given that Couture and Hertl are likely to request a trade at some point in the next couple of seasons too.

Fair enough, I'm convinced on Campbell. I guess given our flexibility it isn't worth quibbling over whether the 1st should be unprotected or not. my prior was that there are future, not yet seen opportunities for being a cap graveyard for picks would emerge. But you're right, Campbell wouldn't preclude those potential opportunities

 

[Cas]

The Campbell contract overlaps with the Eklund extention which has to happen while Vlasic, Couture and Hertl are still under contract, I wouldn't be willing to take him on without Edmonton's unprotected 2024 1st, which they won't do

Eh, by 26-27 we'll have tons of cap space anyway. Hertl and Couture are the only players under contract right now (Vlasic expires the same time as Eklund's ELC, no overlap). We don't have a lot of guys worth extending to that point, and those we might want to extend won't be terribly expensive. We could buy out Campbell at that point anyway and save a bunch of cap space. His contract won't be a big deal - we might even need it or something like it just to hit the cap floor.

I do agree that I wouldn't take on Campbell for less than either a 1st+2nd or an unprotected 1st.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I’m for being paid to take Campbell assuming we’re not on his trade list but make Edmonton pay top dollar for it. Ask for two 1sts with protections. If all you get is a 1st and 2nd then they need to retain or take back some salary.

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!!

(except for you Mike Grier, call Thrun, Simek, and Goosey up you bum!)

 

[Barrie22]

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!!

(except for you Mike Grier, call Thrun, Simek, and Goosey up you bum!)

Simek is hurt for one and useless for second.