Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Jargon]

No moving assets for underperforming LHD.

I guess it really depends on the cost. Doesn’t he feel like a buy low for Grier though? Ferraro and a 2nd…. (I actually have no clue what his value is… this is likely laughably bad).

 

[Hodge]

No moving assets for underperforming LHD.

Underperforming 25 year olds are exactly the type of player we should be targeting. Buy low, sell high.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Underperforming 25 year olds are exactly the type of player we should be targeting. Buy low, sell high.

Yeah but what is buying low in Miller’s case? I think it’s still a hefty price.

 

[coooldude]

Underperforming 25 year olds are exactly the type of player we should be targeting. Buy low, sell high.

I'm on board with it as long we stick to the "no moving assets" part of Jux's post.

Ferraro and a 2nd is not really moving material assets. However that seems like a low price.

 

[Hodge]

Yeah but what is buying low in Miller’s case? I think it’s still a hefty price.

For sure but "hefty price" is better than the untouchable asset he was perceived as after his 2022-23 season.

I'd start with Musty, Ferraro and our next two 2nd rounders and see if anyone beats that.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Underperforming 25 year olds are exactly the type of player we should be targeting. Buy low, sell high.

Not LHDs who do literally nothing different from Sam Dickinson.

We don't need more LHDs.

 

[TheBeard]

I think with Trouba moved the rangers end up re-signing Miller

 

[Hodge]

Not LHDs who do literally nothing different from Sam Dickinson.

We don't need more LHDs.

I've been on the Dickinson hype train since day one but he's still just a prospect. I don't think he'll bust outright but it's entirely possible that he ends up as a Brenden Dillon type middle pair defenseman.

Regardless, even if Dickinson reaches his ceiling and we're lucky enough to draft Schaefer, we still need a legit top pair to hold down the fort for the next 3-5 years so the kids can develop under less pressure. Walman and Ceci are not those guys.

Immediately tossing 18 and 19 year old defensemen into top 4 roles is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

For sure but "hefty price" is better than the untouchable asset he was perceived as after his 2022-23 season.

I'd start with Musty, Ferraro and our next two 2nd rounders and see if anyone beats that.

Maybe but I’m willing to be a little more patient and see how the rest of the season and the draft look like before making that sort of move. The team needs to have a pretty clear understanding where guys like Cagnoni, Dickinson, and Mukhamadullin are before committing assets to someone like Miller. We need a top four RHD to upgrade on Ceci to have a competitive blue line imo and I don’t know if we have that answer nor if Miller is that answer.

 

[Hodge]

Maybe but I’m willing to be a little more patient and see how the rest of the season and the draft look like before making that sort of move. The team needs to have a pretty clear understanding where guys like Cagnoni, Dickinson, and Mukhamadullin are before committing assets to someone like Miller. We need a top four RHD to upgrade on Ceci to have a competitive blue line imo and I don’t know if we have that answer nor if Miller is that answer.

I think we can already safely conclude that none of Cagnoni, Dickinson or Mukhamadullin are going to be ready for top 4 roles next season. I'm not convinced Cagnoni and Dickinson will even be ready for permanent bottom pairing roles.

It's also clear that none of Walman, Ferraro, Ceci or Liljegren can be trusted in a top pairing role unless you're content remaining one of the worst teams in the league. We need a significant upgrade in that part of our lineup in order to take a step forward and ease the burden on Askarov in his first full season.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I've been on the Dickinson hype train since day one but he's still just a prospect. I don't think he'll bust outright but it's entirely possible that he ends up as a Brenden Dillon type middle pair defenseman.

Regardless, even if Dickinson reaches his ceiling and we're lucky enough to draft Schaefer, we still need a legit top pair to hold down the fort for the next 3-5 years so the kids can develop under less pressure. Walman and Ceci are not those guys.

Immediately tossing 18 and 19 year old defensemen into top 4 roles is a recipe for disaster.

You and I have been down this road with Miller specifically and it really just comes down to the fact that I think Miller is what he is. If you really think Miller is going to break out and be a legit top pairing defenseman in a new environment, then I understand your perspective. I simply don't think he's better than [REDACTED].

 

[TheBeard]

I've been on the Dickinson hype train since day one but he's still just a prospect. I don't think he'll bust outright but it's entirely possible that he ends up as a Brenden Dillon type middle pair defenseman.

Regardless, even if Dickinson reaches his ceiling and we're lucky enough to draft Schaefer, we still need a legit top pair to hold down the fort for the next 3-5 years so the kids can develop under less pressure. Walman and Ceci are not those guys.

Immediately tossing 18 and 19 year old defensemen into top 4 roles is a recipe for disaster.

If we have to pay someone out the ass regardless, I’d rather go after Chychrun who won’t cost assets and is only 2 years older than Miller.

 

[Hodge]

You and I have been down this road with Miller specifically and it really just comes down to the fact that I think Miller is what he is. If you really think Miller is going to break out and be a legit top pairing defenseman in a new environment, then I understand your perspective. I simply don't think he's better than [REDACTED].

He's already been a legit top pairing defenseman though, or at the very least an excellent #3. He's having a down year which is the reason it's even conceivable we could acquire him but we have proof of concept that he can perform in top pairing minutes. It's not just potential. Assuming this continues, his down season can also help us get a bargain on his next contract.

My view of it is that if the left side of our defense in 3 years is KAM, Dickinson and Schaefer in whatever order then it really doesn't matter who's playing RD (assuming Dickinson and Schaefer hit something close to their projected ceilings). Sign or trade for some middle pair guy, hopefully develop someone like Pohlkamp into a bottom pairing option and fill the final top 4 hole at the trade deadline when we're ready to contend.

If we don't get Schaefer and/or Dickinson "only" becomes a middle pairing dman then we'll be even happier we acquired Miller.

 

[Hodge]

If we have to pay someone out the ass regardless, I’d rather go after Chychrun who won’t cost assets and is only 2 years older than Miller.

Chychrun would be a great addition but I assume there's no chance he signs with us as a UFA. Caps will probably keep him anyway.

 

[Juxtaposer]

He's already been a legit top pairing defenseman though, or at the very least an excellent #3. He's having a down year which is the reason it's even conceivable we could acquire him but we have proof of concept that he can perform in top pairing minutes. It's not just potential. Assuming this continues, his down season can also help us get a bargain on his next contract.

My view of it is that if the left side of our defense in 3 years is KAM, Dickinson and Schaefer in whatever order then it really doesn't matter who's playing RD (assuming Dickinson and Schaefer hit something close to their projected ceilings). Sign or trade for some middle pair guy, hopefully develop someone like Pohlkamp into a bottom pairing option and fill the final top 4 hole at the trade deadline when we're ready to contend.

If we don't get Schaefer and/or Dickinson "only" becomes a middle pairing dman then we'll be even happier we acquired Miller.

Miller has one year where he played at an adequate first pairing level and it's all been mediocre middle pairing defenseman outside of that one year. I'm simply telling you that I don't think he's going to ever achieve that level again and we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

If the cost were Ferraro and a 2nd, obviously that would be a different story, but I don't think that would even get close to what the Rangers would demand.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I think we can already safely conclude that none of Cagnoni, Dickinson or Mukhamadullin are going to be ready for top 4 roles next season. I'm not convinced Cagnoni and Dickinson will even be ready for permanent bottom pairing roles.

It's also clear that none of Walman, Ferraro, Ceci or Liljegren can be trusted in a top pairing role unless you're content remaining one of the worst teams in the league. We need a significant upgrade in that part of our lineup in order to take a step forward and ease the burden on Askarov in his first full season.

The only guys worth keeping on the blue line are guys like Walman and Liljegren who probably should be second pairing and cheap guys like Thrun and Thompson. If after the season is over none of Cagnoni and Mukhamadullin get an opportunity then I’d move Thrun to get one of them or Dickinson the spot they need to show what they got. Miller wouldn’t be worth your cost to me unless we found a top four RHD and a real top nine up front. Right now, we have at most Celebrini, Eklund, Granlund, Zetterlund, Toffoli, Wennberg, and Smith. That’s three other spots to fill with Miller and it may not be available for the team but it is certainly doable.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Yeah, I don't think Miller is a top-pair defenseman.

 

[The411]

i haven’t had a chance to do proper research for this draft. With the Sharks being actually fun to watch and work being absolutely batshit crazy 100% of the time, haven’t been able to fully watch.

With that said I have general predictions. I think Sharks sadly miss out of Schaefer without lottery luck. To me he’s a lock to go top 3 with Hagens and Martone and I think we pick at 5-7. I don’t love any defenseman in that range but I do like Frondell, Eklund, and McQueen in that range. All of which would be welcome additions to our forward prospect pool.

I also have a feeling we pick up another first and do some voodoo magic to make it high enough to take Hensler.

McQueen is DND with his back issues.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

Thank god you're not the GM

Well, we're about to see whether he agrees with me on Blackwood.

 

[91Fedorov91]

 

[Juxtaposer]

It's Asky time!!!

 

[TheBeard]

Well, we're about to see whether he agrees with me on Blackwood.

It was more about Mario being a cap dump.

I already hate it.

 

[vortexy]

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

It was more about Mario being a cap dump.


I already hate it.

Well, our coach gives him fewer minutes than Ceci & Walman, both of whom we acquired as cap dumps. And his results are atrocious. We'll probably never find out exactly how Grier feels about him, but he's probably not as high on Ferraro as many think. And I doubt other GMs around the league are either.

 

[hohosaregood]

Congrats to Blackwood. Thanks for filling in the net while you were here