Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Groo]

yea we aren't the Rangers where top FAs and college kids only want to play there.

Like, i think there's a higher chance a college player refuses to sign with us than a FA only wants to come here

We don't have to be NYC. He'll, who is
It's rather shocking though that we seem much closer to being Siberia as a destination for top tier FA's. As far as most of the kids go? I think they're looking for a clear path for an opportunity than the kid that only wants to play for one team.

 

[TheBeard]

Please list all of the cup winners who built their cup winning teams through acquiring established superstar talent vs drafting and developing their core superstars. I’ll save you the trouble. It doesn’t happen. The knights are an exception due to the expansion draft but that’s a bs metric.

They may be an exception but they’re proof it’s doable. Mortgage the farm and sell your soul. It’ll either work or it won’t.

Theres two guys on list where, if claimed on waivers, would have sharks fans rejoicing and proclaiming there is a god.

Vlasic and who?

 

[tiburon12]

We don't have to be NYC. He'll, who is
It's rather shocking though that we seem much closer to being Siberia as a destination for top tier FA's. As far as most of the kids go? I think they're looking for a clear path for an opportunity than the kid that only wants to play for one team.

we're a late-career destination, not a young man's place to be. That's just the reality. The taxes, the culture, the costs....all work against being a young and famous athlete.

 

[exchequer]

They may be an exception but they’re proof it’s doable. Mortgage the farm and sell your soul. It’ll either work or it won’t.


Vlasic and who?

Ferraro (although there are some who would disagree). The point is would anyone claim Ferraro at a $3.25m cap hit for two more seasons after this one?

 

[exchequer]

We don't have to be NYC. He'll, who is
It's rather shocking though that we seem much closer to being Siberia as a destination for top tier FA's. As far as most of the kids go? I think they're looking for a clear path for an opportunity than the kid that only wants to play for one team.

It's nothing new. It's only been proven in last few decades or so. Even when the Sharks were Cup-favorites and DW was trading 1st round picks for eventual rentals who didn't want to re-up with the Sharks.

 

[Groo]

It's nothing new. It's only been proven in last few decades or so. Even when the Sharks were Cup-favorites and DW was trading 1st round picks for eventual rentals who didn't want to re-up with the Sharks.

Yes, long established

 

[tiburon12]

It's nothing new. It's only been proven in last few decades or so. Even when the Sharks were Cup-favorites and DW was trading 1st round picks for eventual rentals who didn't want to re-up with the Sharks.

Far more examples of people who DW traded a lot for and stayed (Rivet, Boyle, Burns, Jones, Kane, Karlsson) vs those who left (Campbell, Guerin)

 

[OrrNumber4]

Far more examples of people who DW traded a lot for and stayed (Rivet, Boyle, Burns, Jones, Kane, Karlsson) vs those who left (Campbell, Guerin)

Eh. Brown, Moen, Nyquist, Reimer, White, Hansen, Polak...Probably 50:50 overall.

 

[tiburon12]

Eh. Brown, Moen, Nyquist, Reimer, White, Hansen, Polak...Probably 50:50 overall.

I don't really consider those guys as ones he paid a lot for.

 

[bigsjfan]

I don't really consider those guys as ones he paid a lot for.

Anyone else remember Ed Belfore, Temu Selane, and Joe Murphy?

 

[coooldude]

Anyone else remember Ed Belfore, Temu Selane, and Joe Murphy?

None of those players left because of lifestyle, or for Original 6.

Belfour left to the Stars. Who knows why, maybe he didn't like the organization at the time. Maybe it was the state taxes effect.

Selanne went to the Ducks. Anaheim is neither a far more amazing place to live, nor is it an Original 6 or hockey market. It is, however, the place he spent 6 seasons and then the rest of his career after a short drop-in to Denver. Hard to argue this one is on SJ.

We were able to attract good FA's when we had a good, contending team. It's just as likely that some of them left because they weren't a great fit for us (Guerin comes to mind). There are some notables that we weren't able to attract (last 2 for Tavares, Campbell, and then this list of absolute spare parts: Brown, Moen, Nyquist, Reimer, White, Hansen, Polak).

I'm sure the taxes help the Southern teams, but only in the context of a contender. I'm sure the Original 6 or big hockey market thing helps some players, and we can never compete with that. But if we are competitive, we will still be in the game. Most players want to win, first and foremost. And the organization is generally well regarded... while the team is a tire fire, the org isn't, so we're probably middle of the pack in terms of overall FA interest, when we are competitive.

SJ and the bay is objectively a great place to live, but expensive, and on the West Coast. A 26-year old player looking for a new home in his prime isn't going to make his decision on which city has the best nightlife, and if he is, he's not a good fit for a cup contender. And before we're a cup contender, I'm guessing at least 50% of the consideration for FA's is going to be whether the team is contending and/or is going to be good for their career on the ice. The other 50% is probably the comp offered (mostly) and lifestyle IF the player has a family (e.g. if their spouse wants to be on the East Coast, that would definitely factor).

 

[Gecklund]

With Bordeleau needing more seasoning and Couture suffering a setback, I wonder what the price on Frost would be. 24 year old offensive C, had 46 points last year. Wonder if there’s a bigger Peterson/Reedy trade here.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

With Bordeleau needing more seasoning and Couture suffering a setback, I wonder what the price on Frost would be. 24 year old offensive C, had 46 points last year. Wonder if there’s a bigger Peterson/Reedy trade here.

Frost would be someone that I'd move Bordeleau for but it doesn't sound like Philly wants to move him yet.

 

[Hodge]

Please list all of the cup winners who built their cup winning teams through acquiring established superstar talent vs drafting and developing their core superstars. I’ll save you the trouble. It doesn’t happen. The knights are an exception due to the expansion draft but that’s a bs metric.

Why is Vegas, the most recent champion, excepted from this when they traded for or signed their 1C, 1D and best overall forward? Acquiring those players had nothing to do with the expansion draft. The assets Vegas moved for them are all assets we have at our disposal today.

 

[Barrie22]

Why is Vegas, the most recent champion, excepted from this when they traded for or signed their 1C, 1D and best overall forward? Acquiring those players had nothing to do with the expansion draft. The assets Vegas moved for them are all assets we have at our disposal today.

And also there 1A and 1B goalies were traded for.

 

[Hodge]

And also there 1A and 1B goalies were traded for.

Not to mention their 2C and one of their first line wingers too.

LA is also trying to do something similar using trade and free agency to acquire Dubois, Fiala, Gavrikov, Danault, Arvidsson, etc. rather than just waiting (in vain) for Alex Turcotte and Quinton Byfield to lead them to the promised land.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Why is Vegas, the most recent champion, excepted from this when they traded for or signed their 1C, 1D and best overall forward? Acquiring those players had nothing to do with the expansion draft. The assets Vegas moved for them are all assets we have at our disposal today.

Um, two of those players were acquired with assets acquired through the expansion draft. We cannot compare ourselves favorably to Vegas when it comes to attracting free agents either. If our focus isn't the draft, we're never going to be able to make real trades to fill the many spots we need filled to come close to competing. Our team with our resources needs to build most of its team through the draft. We cannot rely on external additions to get where we want to go. It will happen on occasion, I'm sure. But relying on it is simply not a good idea and not realistically available for this team.

 

[WSS11]

Why is Vegas, the most recent champion, excepted from this when they traded for or signed their 1C, 1D and best overall forward? Acquiring those players had nothing to do with the expansion draft. The assets Vegas moved for them are all assets we have at our disposal today.

Mirroring what PF said. They acquired them using assets they got from other teams in the expansion draft. They were set up for success right off the bat and went to the cup finals their 1st year for crying out loud. Comparing an expansion team in Vegas to the current state of the sharks makes no sense.

 

[TheBeard]

Why is Vegas, the most recent champion, excepted from this when they traded for or signed their 1C, 1D and best overall forward? Acquiring those players had nothing to do with the expansion draft. The assets Vegas moved for them are all assets we have at our disposal today.

I will say, their success is as much a part of the primo depth they acquire from the lax expansion rules giving them the opportunity to go out and mortgage the future like they did. Getting guys like Karlsson and Theodore and Marchessault and, hell, even Carrier for free meant they had a lot of middle six talent already.

Ferraro (although there are some who would disagree). The point is would anyone claim Ferraro at a $3.25m cap hit for two more seasons after this one?

I’d be angry if they just dumped Ferraro. Whether you like it or not he’s got decent trade value.

 

[Hodge]

Um, two of those players were acquired with assets acquired through the expansion draft. We cannot compare ourselves favorably to Vegas when it comes to attracting free agents either. If our focus isn't the draft, we're never going to be able to make real trades to fill the many spots we need filled to come close to competing. Our team with our resources needs to build most of its team through the draft. We cannot rely on external additions to get where we want to go. It will happen on occasion, I'm sure. But relying on it is simply not a good idea and not realistically available for this team.

Mirroring what PF said. They acquired them using assets they got from other teams in the expansion draft. They were set up for success right off the bat and went to the cup finals their 1st year for crying out loud. Comparing an expansion team in Vegas to the current state of the sharks makes no sense.

The only expansion draft assets Vegas used to acquire Eichel and Stone were a 15th overall pick (Brannstrom) and Alex Tuch. We have the Penguins 2024 1st rounder which should land around 15th and we traded our Tuch equivalent for Musty, Mukhamadullin and a conditional 1st. All of these are expendable assets we can use to acquire impact players from other teams.

I'm not suggesting trading our own 1sts, Smith or Eklund (although I'd definitely consider it for Pettersson) but even outside of those, we already have and will continue to accumulate surplus assets and cap space over the next few years.

 

[TheBeard]

The only expansion draft assets Vegas used to acquire Eichel and Stone were a 15th overall pick (Brannstrom) and Alex Tuch. We have the Penguins 2024 1st rounder which should land around 15th and we traded our Tuch equivalent for Musty, Mukhamadullin and a conditional 1st. All of these are expendable assets we can use to acquire impact players from other teams.

Technically they used Suzuki as well on patches.

 

[Hodge]

Technically they used Suzuki as well on patches.

Pacioretty had zero impact on them winning the Cup since they traded him for future considerations so I'm not including him.

 

[TheBeard]

Pacioretty had zero impact on them winning the Cup since they traded him for future considerations so I'm not including him.

Yes and no. They may not have made the trade for Stone if they didn’t have all three first rounders to dangle, especially after already making the patches deal.

 

[Hodge]

Yes and no. They may not have made the trade for Stone if they didn’t have all three first rounders to dangle, especially after already making the patches deal.

They may not have made the Stone trade if they didn't have Brannstrom, agreed. How does that have anything to do with Pacioretty?

 

[TheBeard]

They may not have made the Stone trade if they didn't have Brannstrom, agreed. How does that have anything to do with Pacioretty?

It’s more that they used one of the three first rounders on Patches. If they didn’t have all three and if they made the deal for max they may have not also made the trade for Stone. Having Suzuki along with Glass and Bran meant being able to make another big splash after the patches trade. If they didn’t have Suzuki they very well may have traded glass or Bran for Max and very well never have made the stone deal.

It’s all revisionist theory though.