Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[PacificOceanPotion]

No Smith???

Are we not talking about next year? Maybe I read the post wrong. The future being what if I’m reading that wrong? If we‘re talking 2-3 yrs out, by all means put Smith in that top line center role. Hypothetically, if we draft Celebrini, you could probably have a 1A and 1B center duo in the top 6 which would bump Hertl and Cooch down the lineup. How will that work for both of those guys at this point in their aging careers? as well as the org. Now, if we end up with Eiserman or Levshunov, I still wonder if Bystedt will be a better 2C over Hertl. He’s younger and skates like wind, plus he’ll be 2 yrs older and should be playing with the Cuda by then, absolutely shredding the AHL

 

[Hodge]

At this point, if we're talking "long-term future", the only players I'd feel comfortable penciling in are Hertl, Couture, Eklund, Smith, Mukhamadullin, Thrun, and the 2024 first-rounder. There's too much uncertainty around everyone else; either them leaving, getting older, or not developing enough.

Mukhamadullin and Thrun don’t belong on this list.

 

[hohosaregood]

At this point, if we're talking "long-term future", the only players I'd feel comfortable penciling in are Hertl, Couture, Eklund, Smith, Mukhamadullin, Thrun, and the 2024 first-rounder. There's too much uncertainty around everyone else; either them leaving, getting older, or not developing enough.

You can't assume Smith or Mukhamadullin or the 2024 1st rounder are anything.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

Has Mukhamadullin not proven he’s worthy of being apart of this teams future? I’m fairly sure MG has made that clear, and I don‘t foresee MG going anywhere. That could be the GM just fluffing a prospect but imo he’s a promising defensive prospect and at the moment the best all around D prospect we’ve got.

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

Has Mukhamadullin not proven he’s worthy of being apart of this teams future? I’m fairly sure MG has made that clear, and I don‘t foresee MG going anywhere. That could be the GM just fluffing a prospect but imo he’s a promising defensive prospect and at the moment the best all around D prospect we’ve got.

I don't know yet. His point totals in the AHL look good but a lot of times when he gets points it's in bunches and a lot of times it's the result of getting assists on plays where Guschin does magic. I also like to look at skillset and actual plays to see if that will translate to the NHL and I just need to see a little more from Muk.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Are we not talking about next year? Maybe I read the post wrong. The future being what if I’m reading that wrong? If we‘re talking 2-3 yrs out, by all means put Smith in that top line center role. Hypothetically, if we draft Celebrini, you could probably have a 1A and 1B center duo in the top 6 which would bump Hertl and Cooch down the lineup. How will that work for both of those guys at this point in their aging careers? as well as the org. Now, if we end up with Eiserman or Levshunov, I still wonder if Bystedt will be a better 2C over Hertl. He’s younger and skates like wind, plus he’ll be 2 yrs older and should be playing with the Cuda by then, absolutely shredding the AHL

Musty playing on the top line before Smitg enters the NHL is not realistic.

 

[Hobocop]

I don't know yet. His point totals in the AHL look good but a lot of times when he gets points it's in bunches and a lot of times it's the result of getting assists on plays where Guschin does magic. I also like to look at skillset and actual plays to see if that will translate to the NHL and I just need to see a little more from Muk.

There's a lot to like from Muk. Long reach, doesn't seem to panic in the D zone. But it's still really early for him. Once he gets stronger, physically, that's going to make a big difference too.

Actually, my biggest issue with him early in the season has been his tendency to send passes to nobody in particular.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

Musty playing on the top line before Smitg enters the NHL is not realistic.

I agree. Go read the other persons post for context.

 

[MVP Zacha]

Devils fan coming in peace. Wanted to check in on Blackwood and Zetterlund. I really hope that Blackwood turns out as good as he looked his first season with NJ before he got bit with the injury bug. He was so good that year on a terrible team.
I noticed that you were discussing Muk today and he was the guy I was really sad to lose. He is going to be really good for you all.
Good luck to the team and I am really pulling for the Sharks.

 

[Erep]

Devils fan coming in peace. Wanted to check in on Blackwood and Zetterlund. I really hope that Blackwood turns out as good as he looked his first season with NJ before he got bit with the injury bug. He was so good that year on a terrible team.
I noticed that you were discussing Muk today and he was the guy I was really sad to lose. He is going to be really good for you all.
Good luck to the team and I am really pulling for the Sharks.

3 players are playing well for the Sharks: Blackwood, Eklund, and Zetterlund.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Mukhamadullin and Thrun don’t belong on this list.

You can't assume Smith or Mukhamadullin or the 2024 1st rounder are anything.

Of course, nothing is 100%, but Thrun and Mukhamadullin have shown enough that I am confident they can at least be NHLers in the future (>50% chance I'd say). Smith was a high pick with no negative marks against him; the 2024 first is almost assuredly going to be a high selection.

Putting that aside, the main issue with the future team is where their superstar, franchise-caliber talent is going to come from. I'd say that the Sharks could plausibly expect one player at that level from Smith, Eklund, and the 2024 first. But, you need at least two to be a true competitor. Another low 2025 pick, along with some luck, and the Sharks might possibly potentially maybe hopefully get their two franchise-caliber players.

Edit: grammar

 

[coooldude]

Of course, nothing is 100%, but Thrun and Mukhamadullin have shown enough that I am confident they can at least be NHLers in the future (>50% chance I'd say). Smith was a high pick with no negative marks against him; the 2024 first is almost assuredly going to be a high selection.

Putting that aside, the main issue with the future team is where their superstar, franchise-caliber talent is going to come from. I'd say that the Sharks could plausibly expect one player at that level from Smith, Eklund, and the 2024 first. But, you need at least two to be a true competitor. Another low 2025 pick, along with some luck, and the Sharks might possibly potentially maybe hopefully get their two franchise-caliber players.

Edit: grammar

I'd argue you even need three superstar, franchise-caliber players. I'm hoping for three of Smith, Eklund (not optimistic he's more than a solid top 6), 2024 1st, 2025 1st, and one of our other draft picks from last year to 4 years from now, hitting and becoming top pairing/top line contributors.

Already won's after a true rebuilld
MacKinnon, Landeskog, Makar, Rantanen (and more!)
and, the Hawks, Lightning, PIT, etc.

Maybe on their way's
Buffalo - Thompson, Dahlin, Power (and more!)
Vancouver - Boeser, Petterson, Hughes.
NJ - Hischier, Hughes, Hughes (and more!)
etc., etc., etc.

 

[CaptainShark]

Is it time to send Eklund down?

If you are Eklund, would you prefer to continue to play on that dumpster fire in what can only be assumed to be a very toxic envirorment right now?

 

[coooldude]

Is it time to send Eklund down?

If you are Eklund, would you prefer to continue to play on that dumpster fire in what can only be assumed to be a very toxic envirorment right now?

He belongs in the NHL and he's playing well enough to develop in the NHL.

The team, to their credit, did not look like they gave up. It didn't look toxic. Shitty game. Nobody knows what's going on in the locker room but I don't think the kids should be "kept away from this team" right now.

 

[Shark Finn]

Is it time to send Eklund down?

If you are Eklund, would you prefer to continue to play on that dumpster fire in what can only be assumed to be a very toxic envirorment right now?

Got to teach him Sharks hockey from early on.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I'd argue you even need three superstar, franchise-caliber players. I'm hoping for three of Smith, Eklund (not optimistic he's more than a solid top 6), 2024 1st, 2025 1st, and one of our other draft picks from last year to 4 years from now, hitting and becoming top pairing/top line contributors.

Already won's after a true rebuilld
MacKinnon, Landeskog, Makar, Rantanen (and more!)
and, the Hawks, Lightning, PIT, etc.

Maybe on their way's
Buffalo - Thompson, Dahlin, Power (and more!)
Vancouver - Boeser, Petterson, Hughes.
NJ - Hischier, Hughes, Hughes (and more!)
etc., etc., etc.

When I say superstar, I mean a legit, real, one-of-the-best in-the-league type player. Landeskog, Rantanen, Kessel, Palat, etc. don't qualify. Players like Letang, Thompson, Hughes, etc. are probably right on the bubble.

The way you have to think about it is, over the next 10+ years, in the West alone other teams are going to be trotting out players like McDavid, Tkachuk, Robertson, Makar, Mackinnon, Hughes, Draisaitl, Pettersson, Oettinger, Heiskanen, Beniers...plus players who haven't been drafted yet, surprise progressions, etc.

That's the competition. Trying to beat those players with a scoring-by-committee approach, or with depth scoring would be entering a race on a bicycle when everyone else has cars.

 

[coooldude]

When I say superstar, I mean a legit, real, one-of-the-best in-the-league type player. Landeskog, Rantanen, Kessel, Palat, etc. don't qualify. Players like Letang, Thompson, Hughes, etc. are probably right on the bubble.

The way you have to think about it is, over the next 10+ years, in the West alone other teams are going to be trotting out players like McDavid, Tkachuk, Robertson, Makar, Mackinnon, Hughes, Draisaitl, Pettersson, Oettinger, Heiskanen, Beniers...plus players who haven't been drafted yet, surprise progressions, etc.

That's the competition. Trying to beat those players with a scoring-by-committee approach, or with depth scoring would be entering a race on a bicycle when everyone else has cars.

So I'm definitely saying the same thing as you on the last sentence. In fact I'm going even farther. We need two legit superstars, but probably actually 3. Your response seems to indicate that you think I am asking for less. I'm asking for more.

I think you're underselling the importance of a third superstar. Saying someone like Letang isn't a legit superstar is shortchanging him (over 25 minutes a game since 2011 and 700 points in 1015 games). Saying Rantanen isn't a top goalscorer in the league is shortchanging him (92 points in 22, 105 in 23, and already 14 in 9 in 24). These are "one of the best player in the league" players. And we need at least 3 of them, and many of the teams we're talking about have a 4th who is about to be that good.

If you want to stick to your definition, then, I will go beyond what you're saying: "I agree with OrrNumber4, we need 2 honest to god superstars, but that's not even enough because look at the Oilers. We also need 3-4 more players at the tier right below those players, who are themselves almost honest to god superstars who make all star teams. But it's better if one of them is also themselves a superstar."

 

[exchequer]

If you are Eklund, would you prefer to continue to play on that dumpster fire in what can only be assumed to be a very toxic envirorment right now?

Uh, if I am Eklund, I would not want to take a 90% pay cut to be in the AHL?

This notion that the AHL is only place to get "seasoned" is preposterous. If anything, sending a prospect down for "seasoning" is an euphemism for them not cutting at the big league level (see: Thrun and Bordeleau).

The Blackhawks are the WORST in their division (just like the Sharks but not as bad). Would they send Bedard to the AHL to "protect" or "develop" or "season" him?

 

[TheBeard]

He belongs in the NHL and he's playing well enough to develop in the NHL.

The team, to their credit, did not look like they gave up. It didn't look toxic. Shitty game. Nobody knows what's going on in the locker room but I don't think the kids should be "kept away from this team" right now.

Nico said some interesting things after the game about how there is clearly no confidence and it’s really no player wants the puck on their stick for fear of making a mistake. I honestly feel once they get that first win they’ll be a much more relaxed, competitive team. Now, when that comes is a whole different story.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Saying Rantanen isn't a top goalscorer in the league is shortchanging him (92 points in 22, 105 in 23, and already 14 in 9 in 24). These are "one of the best player in the league" players. And we need at least 3 of them, and many of the teams we're talking about have a 4th who is about to be that good.

The rest is all fair enough, but I wanted to quibble on this point. Perhaps I'm being unfair to Rantanen (as I was to Letang), who gets overshadowed by Mackinnon and Makar. But looking at his accomplishments, does anything really stand out? One season over 40 goals (last year). no major trophies (I think he made an all-star team in the shortened season), one time finishing top-3 in goals...very good, but superstar-worthy? Plus, IMO, his counting stats are bolstered by his teammates far more than they are vitiated by him being third-fiddle.

 

[exchequer]

The rest is all fair enough, but I wanted to quibble on this point. Perhaps I'm being unfair to Rantanen (as I was to Letang), who gets overshadowed by Mackinnon and Makar. But looking at his accomplishments, does anything really stand out? One season over 40 goals (last year). no major trophies (I think he made an all-star team in the shortened season), one time finishing top-3 in goals...very good, but superstar-worthy? Plus, IMO, his counting stats are bolstered by his teammates far more than they are vitiated by him being third-fiddle.

Sounds like you're talking more about Landeskog than Rantanen who is a level higher in my book. It's not just all about stats - Rantanen is tough guy to play against. Superstar level? That's subjective but he's a guy every NHL team would want on their roster.

I think most people would draft him over Meier in a re-do.

 

[coooldude]

The rest is all fair enough, but I wanted to quibble on this point. Perhaps I'm being unfair to Rantanen (as I was to Letang), who gets overshadowed by Mackinnon and Makar. But looking at his accomplishments, does anything really stand out? One season over 40 goals (last year). no major trophies (I think he made an all-star team in the shortened season), one time finishing top-3 in goals...very good, but superstar-worthy? Plus, IMO, his counting stats are bolstered by his teammates far more than they are vitiated by him being third-fiddle.

I think it's fair to call him all star, I think he's a bubble franchise player (the Avs certainly think so) and I watch a lot of Avs games and he drives the play really well... He's not a Cheechoo out there. Definitely agree he's a better Meier with a better track record and he's not even that old.

Is he generational? Maybe that's the level we are talking about here. Mac and Makar are generational. And it took both of them. PLUS all the other pieces, including multiple other all stars and franchise pieces.

 

[coooldude]

Nico said some interesting things after the game about how there is clearly no confidence and it’s really no player wants the puck on their stick for fear of making a mistake. I honestly feel once they get that first win they’ll be a much more relaxed, competitive team. Now, when that comes is a whole different story.

Yeah, it really does feel that way. You have stick grippers like Duke, you have a huge lack of confidence on the back end with the puck, and you do have a little bit of bad luck to go with a major lack of skill. But this is not a team that gets beat 10-1 every game against every top 10 team. I still think we may get to 15 wins, especially with Couture back.

And when we saw the start of the year schedule, we all thought 10 losses was possible. Now it's reality. The crowd cheering after the goal really felt as much for the players as for us. The guys were skating and pushing. Mostly. (Vlasic still looks Charmin soft out there).

 

[Stewie Griffin]

We haven't even drafted our true franchise caliber guy yet, so let's slow down on projecting a future line up. Eklund is the only one of our prospects/rookies/whatever that has actually made the team. We're going to be drafted top 5/10 for the next ~5 years atleast in all likelihood.

 

[nabbyfan]

The painful part, is that this is what the Sharks should've looked like in 2020 or 2021. We have sucked for 3-4 years, but this is really year 1, maybe 2, of the full on Tank Job.

By the time this gets turned around, youre looking at at least 6-7 years out of the playoffs. Whats the soonest you could realistically project this franchise to compete again? 2026-2027 if every single thing goes absolutely right? Most likely 2028-2029. Thats a full decade after the WCF loss to the Blues. Take a look at the Tank on any given night and see why that just doesn't work in this market.

I dont blame Mike Grier, this is what needs to happen to fix the team, I just hope theyre able to survive as a franchise with 5000 people in the building, getting blown the F out every night, without completely ruining any semblance of winning culture in the organization. Tough times to be a Shark fan.

I will say its annoying watching other fans post about the Sharks like the last 20 years never happened. We were one of the 3 best teams in the NHL from about 2000-2020 sustained, and just never got that cup as payoff. You cant be that good for that long without paying for it, and unfortunately for all of us the bill has come due.