Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[TheBeard]

I really like him and think he’s a great guy to have on the team - I agree he’s likely a middle-pairing defenseman. But if we get a 1st rounder for him + a prospect, I think it’s worth it because you can get guys like Ferraro as FAs.

I guess the question also is.. how high is the pick?

I'd take the first for sure, but I don't think you can get guys like him in FA that easily or else we wouldn't be having the conversation about which teams may give up a first round pick for him.

 

[DG93]

He's not meant to be a top pairing D-men which is how we're deploying him. It's like putting a top checking third line center on the top line and complaining he doesn't score 50.

Nothing I said in my post is dependent on his deployment, and I agree that he is a #4/#5 defenseman, which is what you move 7 days a week and twice on Sunday for a 1st round pick.

 

[TheBeard]

He has zero offensive acumen and doesn't move the puck well, so we have to focus on what he does defensively.

Unfortunately, he's just not very good at that either. He's often out of position, is prone to breakdowns when pressured and gives up a lot of rush chances, and doesn't exactly protect the crease well. He's not very good at keeping the puck out of the zone and he's notoriously bad at puck retrieval and turning the puck around to go the other way or even just move it to a place where it can be taken out of the zone. He is reasonably mobile and can get to the puck, but once he's there he doesn't usually do anything effective with it. He's brave and willing to take a hit or block a shot - that's great, but really of limited value.

To be fair, he's hopelessly overmatched against quality competition - he belongs on a bottom pair, taking on depth lines and getting some PK time, and preferably matched up with a partner who is a little better than he is. Of course, the fact that Ferraro doesn't have any business defending against top lines is an indictment of him and his contract (he should be making less than half what he currently is, especially since he signed an RFA contract), and finding a partner who can move the puck more effectively than Ferraro and serve as a useful outlet for puck retrievals in the corners, as well as help protect the crease more effectively than Ferraro does, but who is also not worth starting in your top four, is rather challenging - basically, Ferraro has to be paired up with a top four defenseman on a bottom pair, or else he's either too vulnerable or getting blown up by players he can't defend effectively.

He's a hard worker. So is almost everyone at this level. You need to actually do something useful with your ice time, and Ferraro usually doesn't.

He is also better than most (all?) of our other defensemen. That's not saying much, most of our other defensemen belong in rec leagues. He's still worthy of criticism because he's not very good and overpaid as a result (he should be making what Benning makes). It's not hate - it's recognition of the limitations of the player and that he shouldn't be put on a pedestal and should be moved if possible for something that may actually be of positive value.

I can rebuke a lot of that, but I don't see the point. We'll just have to agree to disagree

 

[STL Shark]

I do, but I'm also not oblivious to the fact that while some here see Ferraro as nothing more than a body, there's consistently reports popping up about playoff teams interested in his services.

He’s a player that fits at a 4/5 energy and PK Defenseman on a playoff team than he does as a top pairing guy in a rebuilding organization. He’s also a UFA in 2 years so trade him while his value is high. Love his presence in the room, but also need to find ice time for Muk/Thrun on the left side and also need to improve the defense. Can’t do both of those things without removing some of the redundancy on the left side.

 

[TheBeard]

He’s a player that fits at a 4/5 energy and PK Defenseman on a playoff team than he does as a top pairing guy in a rebuilding organization. He’s also a UFA in 2 years so trade him while his value is high. Love his presence in the room, but also need to find ice time for Muk/Thrun on the left side and also need to improve the defense. Can’t do both of those things without removing some of the redundancy on the left side.

While I understand the gist of what you’re saying, improving our defense should never include the words “need to find ice time for Thrun”. He’s shown very little as far as I’m concerned save for the occasional period.

 

[STL Shark]

While I understand the gist of what you’re saying, improving our defense should never include the words “need to find ice time for Thrun”. He’s shown very little as far as I’m concerned save for the occasional period.

Not saying Thrun should be in the top 4, but he's more a part of the future of this team than Ferraro based on age and contract. If you keep Ferraro for the next 1.5 years and also want to improve the defense, that means one of Muk/Thrun/Ferraro are playing their off side or riding the bench (or getting traded).

Ferraro has the most immediate value in a trade and least future in SJ as he hits UFA in 2 years. So the best way to create space for defensive improvement is to move Ferraro and bring in a veteran in UFA to take his place on the top pair (so Muk can play as a #4 and Thrun #5). Far better option than stunting the growth of a younger LHD or running the same D group out there sans Muk for Vlasic.

 

[TheBeard]

Not saying Thrun should be in the top 4, but he's more a part of the future of this team than Ferraro based on age and contract. If you keep Ferraro for the next 1.5 years and also want to improve the defense, that means one of Muk/Thrun/Ferraro are playing their off side or riding the bench (or getting traded).

Ferraro has the most immediate value in a trade and least future in SJ as he hits UFA in 2 years. So the best way to create space for defensive improvement is to move Ferraro and bring in a veteran in UFA to take his place on the top pair (so Muk can play as a #4 and Thrun #5). Far better option than stunting the growth of a younger LHD or running the same D group out there sans Muk for Vlasic.

And I’m fine with trading him. I’ve said it numerous times. That’s not my issue. I don’t really have an issue tbh, I just don’t understand the hate Ferraro gets. He gets more than all our defensemen combined.

 

[Jargon]

And I’m fine with trading him. I’ve said it numerous times. That’s not my issue. I don’t really have an issue tbh, I just don’t understand the hate Ferraro gets. He gets more than all our defensemen combined.

I agree, it’s unearned. He’s a good player in a bad situation. Honestly, Kunin also gets way too much hate. Hoffman was by far the worst player I watched last year, personally.

 

[weastern bias]

Hoffman was by far the worst player I watched last year, personally.

Kyle Burroughs for me, that guy isn't good at anything

 

[Alaskanice]

I agree, it’s unearned. He’s a good player in a bad situation. Honestly, Kunin also gets way too much hate. Hoffman was by far the worst player I watched last year, personally.

This is a good choice. Hoff looked disinterested except for a few games when he scored some goals. He threw the puck away way too much. Couldn’t fight for position and passed up shots in ways I was baffled about.
A true waste of a season that I can’t recall seeing.

 

[Jargon]

This is a good choice. Hoff looked disinterested except for a few games when he scored some goals. He threw the puck away way too much. Couldn’t fight for position and passed up shots in ways I was baffled about.
A true waste of a season that I can’t recall seeing.

I genuinely would forget for multiple games that he played on the team except for that short stretch where he went on a little scoring tear.

 

[Anomie2029]

The hate for Ferraro gets amplified because of the media lovefest for him.
It's the same as the hate for Kunin.

The Sharks media really blow smoke up the fans' asses talking about how great these players are when they're a bottom pair Dman and a 4th liner. There were definitely worse players (Burroughs and Hoffman are two examples brought up), but fans weren't having how good those players were slammed into their face on TV screens and in articles.

If you get a first for Ferraro, you should make the trade instantly. If it's a 2nd and a good prospect, I'd still make the trade.

However, Sharks will need to make the cap floor and his contract coming off the books makes it more likely Grier signs a ridiculous deal.

 

[TheBeard]

I agree, it’s unearned. He’s a good player in a bad situation. Honestly, Kunin also gets way too much hate. Hoffman was by far the worst player I watched last year, personally.

Putting good players in bad situations is how they become hated. It's like saying, "Hey, Mackenzie, you've been solid in nets so we want you to quarterback our PP. Cool?"

Mario played 3 minutes more than the next closest Dman in terms of DOI and did it with a plethora of partners, many of who don't deserve to be on an NHL roster. Yeah he's gonna be running around trying to do more than he should but at the same time Grier and Quinn kinda forced him into thinking like this. When Emberson was there and they had time to gel they were terrific.

I agree about Hoffman, but I'd put Lebanc and Barb up there as well. They just look like they wanted out from game 1.

 

[TheBeard]

The hate for Ferraro gets amplified because of the media lovefest for him.
It's the same as the hate for Kunin.

The Sharks media really blow smoke up the fans' asses talking about how great these players are when they're a bottom pair Dman and a 4th liner. There were definitely worse players (Burroughs and Hoffman are two examples brought up), but fans weren't having how good those players were slammed into their face on TV screens and in articles.

If you get a first for Ferraro, you should make the trade instantly. If it's a 2nd and a good prospect, I'd still make the trade.

However, Sharks will need to make the cap floor and his contract coming off the books makes it more likely Grier signs a ridiculous deal.

I get where you're coming from, but at the same time he was pretty much the ONLY D that ever deserved any praise so it probably sounded like they were only giving him props (except for that brief spell where Pickles and Ruuta were scoring machines)

 

[Sandisfan]

This is a good choice. Hoff looked disinterested except for a few games when he scored some goals. He threw the puck away way too much. Couldn’t fight for position and passed up shots in ways I was baffled about.
A true waste of a season that I can’t recall seeing.

Well Hoff was a pure cap dump and the Sharks were tanking they didn't really give up anything for him and if they could have made same deal but without the Hoff they would have.

 

[Alaskanice]

Well Hoff was a pure cap dump and the Sharks were tanking they didn't really give up anything for him and if they could have made same deal but with the Hoff they would have.

I do understand that but have some pride in your game. They get paid exorbitantly to play a game.
Fans pay their hard earned money to go and watch them play. Play as if you care.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'll agree, which is why I said a late first is the minimum I'd take. I look at the Hronek trade last year as an accurate comparison. He brought back a mid-first (conditional) and a second, and is making 4.4 per.

At some point this team is actually going to have to address not having any viable D-men that are NHL-worthy.

A top twelve protected 1st and a 2nd for Hronek and a 4th. I can certainly live with a trade like that, I’d be fine with just the 1st for someone who doesn’t produce like Hronek in a seemingly more valued position.

 

[hohosaregood]

I think Mario just tries to do too much. He wants to hero puck on defense but without the puck. Like he gambles on his hustle to win puck battles he doesn't really have a chance at. If he just held his position and let the game come to him more, he'd be a lot more effective.

 

[TheBeard]

I think Mario just tries to do too much. He wants to hero puck on defense but without the puck. Like he gambles on his hustle to win puck battles he doesn't really have a chance at. If he just held his position and let the game come to him more, he'd be a lot more effective.

You gotta wonder how much is Quinn telling him to be more aggressive or the fact the offense struggled heavily, especially early on.

 

[Cas]

You gotta wonder how much is Quinn telling him to be more aggressive or the fact the offense struggled heavily, especially early on.

He did that under Boughner.

 

[mogambomoroo]

Personally I would ask teams around about their interest in Ferraro at the draft. If you could package him with picks for a better draft position, it's a no brainer.
Since it's a more defence heavy top 15, it's great for the future.

I've always liked what Ferraro has been as a personality and that he gives his 100% but I think it's also time to start changing the course by giving younger LD more space and give Ferraro a chance to play less minutes on a better team. Maybe he could succeed or at least have a shot at it on a better team.
Ferraro feels like the right player at wrong time situation for this 2019-current period. It never felt like he fit comfortably and always felt like he needed just another year for it to work out.

 

[STL Shark]

And I’m fine with trading him. I’ve said it numerous times. That’s not my issue. I don’t really have an issue tbh, I just don’t understand the hate Ferraro gets. He gets more than all our defensemen combined.

I don't hate Ferraro and honestly think this year was the best he's looked since he was a rookie. I just don't see what role he fills on this roster right now. Hardworker, but not a veteran that will promote a winning culture (he's only ever been on losing teams in the NHL).

Doesn't produce offense, but also isn't very good playing with an offensive D-Man (was a disaster with Karlsson - slightly less so with Burns though some of that may have been the buttoned up low risk Boughner playstyle) to be the stabilizing force to that sort of a pairing.

I think he catches more flack because he's expected to be good and is paid like it as opposed to Benning and Burroughs being on buriable contracts and Rutta being a known cap dump when we took him on.

Long-term, I think he will do well and be more valuable to a winner in a lesser role than he is right now in this situation, and I think he could be a valuable playoff guy with his motor. It's just that motor puts him out of position too often and he doesn't move the puck well enough to cover up the freelancing he does chasing the play sometimes.

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

A top twelve protected 1st and a 2nd for Hronek and a 4th. I can certainly live with a trade like that, I’d be fine with just the 1st for someone who doesn’t produce like Hronek in a seemingly more valued position.

Man, I would think everyone here watching Bouchard getting bitched around in the playoffs (who is Better than Hronek, who also got tossed around) would completely stop this nonsense. These guys are specialist defensemen that realistically have no place on winning teams, or even fun teams, they just put up points. #3 defensemen IF that.

If the Sharks traded an asset like a 1st for someone like Hronek, and then signed him to a massive deal, that would undo a huge part of MG's smart business. I get the fiending for defenseman, I do, but it most importantly needs to be someone *good* and not just a name. They would be far better off getting two 3-4 FA guys spending no assets and waiting till a #1 becomes available when they have a better understanding of the team.

 

[LadyStanley]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1800908826855760155

Cap dumpt/buy out candidates including Goodrow.

 

[Friday]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1800908826855760155

Cap dumpt/buy out candidates including Goodrow.

Bring Goody home