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Prospect Info: 2023-24 #1: Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Jrs., Int'l, etc.

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They had one practice before these games, what offensive system were they going to implement?

These games were both about a quick look at players they won't see for a year (the CHL contingent as well as Ciernek) and tryouts for the Phantoms (Brown, etc.).

What they're looking at is raw skill and effort. Can't see much more than that in this format.

Gendron - made some mistakes, puck handling needs work, but he can fly and shoot, that big season in the Q was not a fluke

Fauchon - interesting to see if they sign him, flashed some speed and skill but was inconsistent

Ciernak - worth keeping an eye on the next couple years, another with speed and skill

Brown - 24, 5'8 190, had a breakout season on BU, leading forward scorer (one point behind Hutson), may have needed time to grow into his body, expect them to sign him for the Phantoms, speed, hustle, grit and some skill.

Tuomaala - he's still only 20, has added strength, has very gooid speed and a good shot, he's working harder and went to dirty areas, he's a prospect off these games, we'll see what he does with the Phantoms

It's harder to get a read on older players in these games, they're used to playing in more disciplined systems with teammates they expect to be in certain places - while Foerster and Brink have NHL skill, they're not the speedy, flashing types that excel in chaos.

I thought he young goalie was fine, he's 18, looked quick enough, wasn't flopping all over the place.
How many goalies start in the NHL before 22-23?
 
One thing that does jump out, they've put some emphasis on speed, even the invites (Brown, Fauchon, Avon last year) can skate. The D-men, even the bigger ones, have decent mobility, no slugs.

Maybe they've finally entered the 21st century?
 
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attended last night's rookiefest, had a few observations:

Brink clearly has ability, and I'm hardly ever going to criticize a playmaker for tryna make plays, but I will in this case: He played way too pass-first. Had a couple instances where a shot (or a low shot for rebound) would have been the best choice and he preferred to throw it cross-crease into traffic. But the worst instance was a break off a turnover where he had the puck moving in from top of the right circle against a flat-footed defenseman. It was a setup where he could have dropped the shoulder and been in alone on net, but he slowed up on a stride and turned his whole head looking for a pass option across the net and the defender had just enough recover time so the play fizzled. Rip it or drive it in man, things are only gonna move faster and you need to take what you're given.

Grans is big and fairly smooth but does not seem very smart. Looked like a less-fast Myers or a more polished Hagg. One game viewing though.

Andrae had a lot of good looks but his decision time on offense seemed a hair slower than it needs to be. Knows how to work the top of the zone well and the Rangers rooks gave him a ton of space, but sometimes drove in too far and too long and let too much traffic build in front, then tried to pick around it and missed the net. He seems to want to blast from closer in but again, by the time you get to your ideal shooting spot conditions are often less-than-ideal. Has the tools, just needs to deploy them faster. His defense was quite good though.

Which brings me to the next guy, Tuomala, who, based off of just that game, looked like a moron. He has a decent amount of skill but his brain was just a black hole in that one, missing clear passing options when he had them and then just other stupid shit. Worst was when he flagged down a clearing attempt and smartly dropped it back to Andrae at center-point. Andrae has a huge lane and winds up the big clapper and then Tuomala just drifts directly into his shot path rather than go literally anywhere else on the ice. So Andrae was forced to pull the shot back and then toe drag around his own teammate like he was a defender. Tuomala had a number of boneheaded moments but that was just an egregious type of stupid.

Foerster did not play much and was relatively unremarkable to me when he was out there.

I'll try to think if anything else stood out, but the overall theme was that these guys did not play with much confidence or pace at all in the offensive zone. Can't draw overarching conclusions from a one-off (or two-off) rookie scrimmage, but no one inspired a particular level of intrigue or excitement.
 
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I suspect judgments will be made more off the next three days of practice than the two rookie games.
Rangers were playing half their AHL team, Flyers a lot of 18 year olds and tryouts.

For someone like Brink, he needs to play with better linemates in a more structured situation b/c a lot of his game is anticipation, and it's hard to read plays in a game like this. I think he'll start the season on the top line in the AHL, and have a lot more opportunities to make plays.

Tuomaala is changing roles, from a kid who thought he was an offensive star, to a player who has learned his future is as a dynamic bottom six forward. I think we'll get a read by the end of this AHL season whether he can adjust to that role.
 
Beef Invictus said:
Foerster is a great example of a guy who could provide NHL utility that is going to wither on the vine.
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A guy who is worthy of being in the NHL but either away and become a permanent AHLer and lose any and all value in any kind of rage because our management can't see past useless hockey players' and Tort's dicks. They are dollar signs in bad and boring hockey.
 
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mr4tno said:
Just finished watching the game....
1. So glad we wasted draft capital by trading up in the 2nd only to waste it on that goalie. Good news is no need to learn how to spell or pronounce his name
2. It seems not only do we suck now but we are on track to suck in both the near and distant future
3. Foerster, Brink and Desnoyer were invisible so looks like a heathy dose of the scrub ass vet-tran presence for the foreseeable future
4. And, of course, Avon injured yet again
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It’s a meaningless game. Who cares
 
Tuomaala sucks. He's nothing. Your boys blew a pick, but you can't admit it because of your "Flahr is great at drafting actually" fantasy.
deadhead said:
I suspect judgments will be made more off the next three days of practice than the two rookie games.
Rangers were playing half their AHL team, Flyers a lot of 18 year olds and tryouts.

For someone like Brink, he needs to play with better linemates in a more structured situation b/c a lot of his game is anticipation, and it's hard to read plays in a game like this. I think he'll start the season on the top line in the AHL, and have a lot more opportunities to make plays.

Tuomaala is changing roles, from a kid who thought he was an offensive star, to a player who has learned his future is as a dynamic bottom six forward. I think we'll get a read by the end of this AHL season whether he can adjust to that role.
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BackToTheBrierePatch said:
It’s a meaningless game. Who cares
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I see one meaningful thing coming out of these games: Lappy has to be excused from the development program. These kids are not hockey novices. They can be told what the coaches want to see on O and D and then be expected to carry it out. Lappy has no feel for this and it shows- silly line construction and basically pond hockey. Last week was a wasted time for player development.
 
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renberg said:
I see one meaningful thing coming out of these games: Lappy has to be excused from the development program. These kids are not hockey novices. They can be told what the coaches want to see on O and D and then be expected to carry it out. Lappy has no feel for this and it shows- silly line construction and basically pond hockey. Last week was a wasted time for player development.
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Whether or not you like Lappy, that's a ridiculous take.

They had one day of practice before the games, mixing players from the CHL, NCAA, Phantoms, Reading, and the Swedish leagues. All probably played with different systems last year.

Of course they looked like they weren't on the same page.
And it is pond hockey!
 
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It seems the Flyers most skilled players are too slow and the Flyers faster players have very little skill....They seem to draft one or the other, but very rarely a layer with both
 
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The faster players were mostly 18, except Avon (injured), Tuomaala (adjusting to new role). So yeah, they look raw. Brown was the only "fast" player with experience, and he didn't break out until his senior season in college.

One to watch is Ciernak, if he has a big season in Allsvenskan, he's not Swedish, so I don't know what rules apply to him, could he decide to come to the AHL instead of the SHL?

Zavragin started two games in the MHL, then a game in the VHL. Probably an injury callup.
 
deadhead said:
The faster players were mostly 18, except Avon (injured), Tuomaala (adjusting to new role). So yeah, they look raw. Brown was the only "fast" player with experience, and he didn't break out until his senior season in college.

One to watch is Ciernak, if he has a big season in Allsvenskan, he's not Swedish, so I don't know what rules apply to him, could he decide to come to the AHL instead of the SHL?

Zavragin started two games in the MHL, then a game in the VHL. Probably an injury callup.
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Ciernik said something in one of the post games that when he signed his contract with Vasterviks there was an agreement to let him come to NA so i think the only thing thats stopping him from coming over is a contract from the Flyers. I think theres monetary compensation for a transfer like this.
 
deadhead said:
Whether or not you like Lappy, that's a ridiculous take.

They had one day of practice before the games, mixing players from the CHL, NCAA, Phantoms, Reading, and the Swedish leagues. All probably played with different systems last year.

Of course they looked like they weren't on the same page.
And it is pond hockey!
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Baloney. Players know what difference schemes of play are. When told which ones to use they can comply. Did the Rags prospects play pond hockey? They were told what general schemes to use and did it. The Flyers looked disjointed on the ice because they were. There’s no reason to just skate up and down the ice with no purpose in a scrimmage. It was a waste of time for the Flyers.
 
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renberg said:
Baloney. Players know what difference schemes of play are. When told which ones to use they can comply. Did the Rags prospects play pond hockey? They were told what general schemes to use and did it. The Flyers looked disjointed on the ice because they were. There’s no reason to just skate up and down the ice with no purpose in a scrimmage. It was a waste of time for the Flyers.
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Excellent post. This is EXACTLY what happens when coaching throughout the organization is not on the same page. The system used in Lehigh Valley should be identical to the system used in Philadelphia. The terminology should also be the same. Everything system and special teams wise should be the same.

This falls on Tortorella. He had a chance to dispose of Laperriere and bring in someone who knows his system and could get everyone on the same page in Lehigh Valley. Instead, the Flyers have an even worse version of Scott Gordon and his pond hockey. Hopefully McCauley and Briere are smart enough to see that Lehigh Valley needs an overhaul as well.
 
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BobbyClarkeFan16 said:
Excellent post. This is EXACTLY what happens when coaching throughout the organization is not on the same page. The system used in Lehigh Valley should be identical to the system used in Philadelphia. The terminology should also be the same. Everything system and special teams wise should be the same.

This falls on Tortorella. He had a chance to dispose of Laperriere and bring in someone who knows his system and could get everyone on the same page in Lehigh Valley. Instead, the Flyers have an even worse version of Scott Gordon and his pond hockey. Hopefully McCauley and Briere are smart enough to see that Lehigh Valley needs an overhaul as well.
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If Briere were that smart he'd be a threat to the country club and wouldn't have been given the job, unfortunately
 
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renberg said:
Baloney. Players know what difference schemes of play are. When told which ones to use they can comply. Did the Rags prospects play pond hockey? They were told what general schemes to use and did it. The Flyers looked disjointed on the ice because they were. There’s no reason to just skate up and down the ice with no purpose in a scrimmage. It was a waste of time for the Flyers.
Click to expand...
BobbyClarkeFan16 said:
Excellent post. This is EXACTLY what happens when coaching throughout the organization is not on the same page. The system used in Lehigh Valley should be identical to the system used in Philadelphia. The terminology should also be the same. Everything system and special teams wise should be the same.

This falls on Tortorella. He had a chance to dispose of Laperriere and bring in someone who knows his system and could get everyone on the same page in Lehigh Valley. Instead, the Flyers have an even worse version of Scott Gordon and his pond hockey. Hopefully McCauley and Briere are smart enough to see that Lehigh Valley needs an overhaul as well.
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you guys are both ignoring the fact that only 4 players on our rosters each night played in the AHL last year, whereas 12 of the rangers played in the AHL together, it was junior guys against AHL guys so ya it was basically pond hockey.

and no, they shouldnt be familar with the terminology in lehigh and philadelphia, because they didnt play in lehigh and philadelphia last year, they played in juniors and in europe lol they had one practice its beyond unrealistic to expect them to be on the same page right away.

foerster brink desnoyers should have done better sure but its not an indictment of the whole development system. the phantoms just finished a playoff season off the strength of their rookies, and Danny has created a situation where most of these guys can all play another year together. if you believe that the systems need to mirror each other, this is how its done. There is no system in the world you can run at the AHL level that will prepare these kids for Connor McDavid offenses and an 82 game schedule. Its so much more than Xs and Os and set plays.
 
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Larry44 said:
Flahr's presser after Rookie Games. Interesting comments on Michkov, and smaller, faster guys like Barkey, Gendron at the end.

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thats cool that zamula talks to mich maybe kolosov or zavragin are here or any other russian speakers when he gets here we'll have our own russian 5.

speaking of zavragin he's played 2 games in the mhl 1 shut out .957 sv% and 1 game in the vhl with a .920 % so hes started the year solid
 
"Speed and skill gives them a chance."

People make fun of their focus on strength, but even in the rookie game you can see the younger players struggle with contact and along the boards - in the NHL, where the windows are smaller and it's harder to avoid contact, strength matters.

It's not like Barkley is going to bulk up to 200 lbs, but 154 is just too small, get up to 175 without losing speed and learn how to use leverage and he has a chance. If forwards don't add strength, they tend to become perimeter players b/c they get knocked around like pinballs in the dirty areas where goals are scored.

What I like is they're gambling more on speed and skill in the middle and later rounds, a lot won't make it, but it's how you hit a few HRs. But it comes down to balance, you also need some big bodies to crash along the boards, screen goalies at forward and clear the crease as defensemen.
 
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