Rumor: 2023-2024 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Offseason Edition

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Good job leafs - treliving did such an amazing job in calgary!!! :laugh:
I'd argue he did a pretty solid job. Took over a team that hadn't made the playoffs in 5 years and immediately got them in the playoffs and winning a round. From there they were regularly in the playoffs and by the 2nd to last year, one of the better teams in the league. He just never got them over the hump and then made some desperation moves last summer when things fell apart.

IMO his biggest issues were not taking the risk on signing Cheese earlier and the whole Peters debacle (coaches in general were not his strong suit).
 
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I'd argue he did a pretty solid job. Took over a team that hadn't made the playoffs in 5 years and immediately got them in the playoffs and winning a round. From there they were regularly in the playoffs and by the 2nd to last year, one of the better teams in the league. He just never got them over the hump and then made some desperation moves last summer when things fell apart.

IMO his biggest issues were not taking the risk on signing Cheese earlier and the whole Peters debacle (coaches in general were not his strong suit).
Eh, there was some good, there was some bad. Even at the time I thought him going out and signing Markstrom to a long-term deal was a huge mistake, and right now that contract looks horrendous. He's not a bad GM, but I don't think he's a very good one either. I feel like he'll get the Leafs to tread water for a couple years where they remain a playoff team, but they won't get over the hump.

The whole thing with Tkachuk and Gaudreau, I suppose I can't fault him too much but IMO the big mistake was taking a better-than-expected year way back when they tried to tank it (was he even the GM back then? I'm pretty sure he was) as a sign to just go for it. They should've kept it small for another year or two, then started going for it.
 
Eh, there was some good, there was some bad. Even at the time I thought him going out and signing Markstrom to a long-term deal was a huge mistake, and right now that contract looks horrendous. He's not a bad GM, but I don't think he's a very good one either. I feel like he'll get the Leafs to tread water for a couple years where they remain a playoff team, but they won't get over the hump.

The whole thing with Tkachuk and Gaudreau, I suppose I can't fault him too much but IMO the big mistake was taking a better-than-expected year way back when they tried to tank it (was he even the GM back then? I'm pretty sure he was) as a sign to just go for it. They should've kept it small for another year or two, then started going for it.
I'm not saying he's a great GM by any stretch, but he wasn't all bad or a complete disaster. Considering the situation, he took a struggling team and got them to the playoffs consistently. He reshaped the team multiple times and had to deal with a number of bad situations, yet they were always in the thick of the playoffs. He's certainly the fall guy in Calgary, and the buck ultimately stops with him so that's fair.

IMO if one singular thing went differently, I think we look back at Treliving completely differently. If Adam Fox hadn't said he wasn't going to sign in Calgary so he wasn't thrown into the Hamilton/Lindholm/Hanifin deal... I think we have a far different outlook to how things turned out. Imagine Fox on that 21-22 team... easy Cup contender.
 
I think Flames fans didn't like the bridge contract on Tkachuk just to keep Frolik. That's indeed a big mistake. And I thought the Tkachuk for Huberdeau and Weegar was the biggest robbery at the time from Treliving :nod:

 
I'd argue he did a pretty solid job. Took over a team that hadn't made the playoffs in 5 years and immediately got them in the playoffs and winning a round. From there they were regularly in the playoffs and by the 2nd to last year, one of the better teams in the league. He just never got them over the hump and then made some desperation moves last summer when things fell apart.

IMO his biggest issues were not taking the risk on signing Cheese earlier and the whole Peters debacle (coaches in general were not his strong suit).

Losing Gaudreau for absolutely nothing - for me, makes him a pretty bad GM. After seeing a lot of other Top Players throughout the league refuse to commit their long-term future to their teams only to walk away for nothing - they should have known better. I absolutely and totally called it that he was going to leave - I was 100% convinced he was going to sign in Philly - what I didn't know is that Philly didn't want him LOL!

If the Flames had traded him with 1 year left, they could have re-shaped that franchise in a different way. Instead, we saw the desperate moves that came afterwards when they traded Tkachuk and signed 31 year old Kadri to a 7 year contract.

He screwed that team not only last year but for the foreseeable future. To me, that's not a great GM.

Anyone can go around handing out crazy frikkin' deals that should theoretically improve your team for the short term but completely f*** over whoever takes over your job once you've been fired.
 
Losing Gaudreau for absolutely nothing - for me, makes him a pretty bad GM. After seeing a lot of other Top Players throughout the league refuse to commit their long-term future to their teams only to walk away for nothing - they should have known better. I absolutely and totally called it that he was going to leave - I was 100% convinced he was going to sign in Philly - what I didn't know is that Philly didn't want him LOL!

If the Flames had traded him with 1 year left, they could have re-shaped that franchise in a different way. Instead, we saw the desperate moves that came afterwards when they traded Tkachuk and signed 31 year old Kadri to a 7 year contract.

He screwed that team not only last year but for the foreseeable future. To me, that's not a great GM.

Anyone can go around handing out crazy frikkin' deals that should theoretically improve your team for the short term but completely f*** over whoever takes over your job once you've been fired.
So... was losing Kadri and Burkie for nothing a failure? Should the Avs have traded all of Nuke, Kadri, and Burkie prior to last season? Should the Avs move Toews very soon? Those are the same sorts of situations.
 
So... was losing Kadri and Burkie for nothing a failure? Should the Avs have traded all of Nuke, Kadri, and Burkie prior to last season? Should the Avs move Toews very soon? Those are the same sorts of situations.

I get your point but there's some very large differences. Kadri and Burakovsky were not the best players on the team. They weren't even the 2nd-best players on the team. Now, one of them at least played a hugely vital role that ultimately cost them a 2nd run this year, but I still wouldn't rank Kadri above Makar, MacKinnon, or Rantanen (and maybe not even Landeskog though that might have changed this year given the injuries).

The problem in Calgary is that those players weren't part of the core, they WERE the core. I get why the Flames did not want to rebuild or retool but in hindsight, the 2022 offseason did a lot more long-term damage and garnered no short-term gain.
 
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I get your point but there's some very large differences. Kadri and Burakovsky were not the best players on the team. They weren't even the 2nd-best players on the team. Now, one of them at least played a hugely vital role that ultimately cost them a 2nd run this year, but I still wouldn't rank Kadri above Makar, MacKinnon, or Rantanen (and maybe not even Landeskog though that might have changed this year given the injuries).

The problem in Calgary is that those players weren't part of the core, they WERE the core. I get why the Flames did not want to rebuild or retool but in hindsight, the 2022 offseason did a lot more long-term damage and garnered no short-term gain.

It definitely did damage and the compounded the damage.

To me Johnny Hockey and Toews wouldn't be that different in value to the team... arguably even Kadri or Nuke. Gaudreau was the flashiest player on the team, but in terms of importance, he was behind Cheese and Lindholm quite easily. IMO you could make a case that Kadri or Toews are the 4th more important player on the team (I'd argue Toews ahead of Rants personally).

You could also point out Hamilton in Carolina too... he was their 2nd or 3rd best player that they let walk.

Now the Cheese situation... that was easily a situation forced by a GM feeling the heat to win immediately and ownership pressure. They did what they could to get the best pieces back and not rebuild. Probably the wrong way to handle it, but that blood needs to be shared... not just on one guy.

Overall though, Calgary was on a heater and number of places were predicting they were the Cup favorites. You'd be a madman to trade pending UFAs for assets in the midst of a contending year. I'd F riot if the Avs did that. Cups are hard to win and if you have a chance, you take it. Even if it fails it is better to try.
 
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I genuinely don't know what to expect this off-season. Deadline kinda ruined some of the optimism I had after the cup win. I would never have guessed it'd be the FO waving the white flag that did us in last year.
 
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So... was losing Kadri and Burkie for nothing a failure? Should the Avs have traded all of Nuke, Kadri, and Burkie prior to last season? Should the Avs move Toews very soon? Those are the same sorts of situations.

Funny how simply winning the cup makes all the difference.
 
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Funny how simply winning the cup makes all the difference.
It really is that fine of line. Win and everything is overlooked and forgiven. Lose and all the mistakes you made are thrown in your face, even including ones that were not your fault. Sports are a cutthroat world.... I have zero idea why people would want to do front office work for a living. I've seen the work and no thanks. :laugh:
 
It really is that fine of line. Win and everything is overlooked and forgiven. Lose and all the mistakes you made are thrown in your face, even including ones that were not your fault. Sports are a cutthroat world.... I have zero idea why people would want to do front office work for a living. I've seen the work and no thanks. :laugh:

You'd never want to be a GM lol? I mean accountants CAN apparently be GMs.
 
You'd never want to be a GM lol? I mean accountants CAN apparently be GMs.
nope.gif
 
It really is that fine of line. Win and everything is overlooked and forgiven. Lose and all the mistakes you made are thrown in your face, even including ones that were not your fault. Sports are a cutthroat world.... I have zero idea why people would want to do front office work for a living. I've seen the work and no thanks. :laugh:

I can say with extreme confidence I would be on here losing my mind had they lost then watched all these players walk for nothing.

But they didn't, so they're geniuses.
 
The problem in Calgary is that those players weren't part of the core, they WERE the core.
What about your friend Jarmo and Panarin/Bob/Duchene? Not only he lost his 2 best players for nothing but traded assets for a few months of the 3rd guy.

Isn't it much worse than what Treliving did? Or should we look the other way because they upset a team in round 1?
 
It definitely did damage and the compounded the damage.

To me Johnny Hockey and Toews wouldn't be that different in value to the team... arguably even Kadri or Nuke. Gaudreau was the flashiest player on the team, but in terms of importance, he was behind Cheese and Lindholm quite easily. IMO you could make a case that Kadri or Toews are the 4th more important player on the team (I'd argue Toews ahead of Rants personally).

You could also point out Hamilton in Carolina too... he was their 2nd or 3rd best player that they let walk.

Now the Cheese situation... that was easily a situation forced by a GM feeling the heat to win immediately and ownership pressure. They did what they could to get the best pieces back and not rebuild. Probably the wrong way to handle it, but that blood needs to be shared... not just on one guy.

Overall though, Calgary was on a heater and number of places were predicting they were the Cup favorites. You'd be a madman to trade pending UFAs for assets in the midst of a contending year. I'd F riot if the Avs did that. Cups are hard to win and if you have a chance, you take it. Even if it fails it is better to try.
You're right, it's the same situation with Devon Toews and my feeling is the same as it always is in that type of situation. If the player doesn't want to sign long-term over the summer 1 year prior to being a free agent then why is he suddenly going to want to sign long-term 1 year later ?

Sometimes they do and it's because those players are usually entrenched within the organization and while they want to be paid fairly, there's no other place they'd truly rather play. (Landeskog, Stamkos)

Other than that, the 3 most glaring examples of players saying all the right things in the media but not really wanting to stay where they were are Tavares, Stastny and Gaudreau. I'm quite certain all of those GMs were 'surprised' to see those players leave but that's the risk they decided to take by allowing those players to get to UFA.

I'm not suggesting that these are easy decisions but if you're in the business of looking out for the long-term health of an NHL franchise then it's up to the GM to set a deadline over the summer to get a deal done with the player and if you can't come to an agreement, you have to take the decision that you're either going to trade the player or keep him one more year knowing that he's more than likely gone.

I don't agree with you that Calgary was close to being a contender 1 year before Johnny Hockey was set to be a UFA. The 2020-21 Calgary Flames finished with an under .500 record (26-27-3) in that shortened season during the pandemic and they missed the playoffs in the Canadian division of those weirdly configured conferences.

So at that point, you make the correct decisions as the GM and leader of the Calgary Flames that if Gaudreau doesn't want to re-sign, you move him out for the very best package that you can get. Sometimes taking a step backwards means you're going to be able to take a big step forward in the near future.

So to get back to Toews, if the Avs can't get him signed long-term this summer, then yes, I do hope they move him for the very best package they can get OR if they decide to keep him for his last year of his deal at $4.1M - then they HAVE TO BE ALL-IN this year and when I mean ALL-IN, I mean ALL f***ING IN, if you know what I mean.
 
It really is that fine of line. Win and everything is overlooked and forgiven. Lose and all the mistakes you made are thrown in your face, even including ones that were not your fault. Sports are a cutthroat world.... I have zero idea why people would want to do front office work for a living. I've seen the work and no thanks. :laugh:
What are you talking about? GM is an easy job. All you have to do is get hired by a team then start reading HFBoards and follow posters' ideas for trades, UFA signings, contracts extensions, etc.

Easy peasy...
 
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Losing Gaudreau for absolutely nothing - for me, makes him a pretty bad GM. After seeing a lot of other Top Players throughout the league refuse to commit their long-term future to their teams only to walk away for nothing - they should have known better. I absolutely and totally called it that he was going to leave - I was 100% convinced he was going to sign in Philly - what I didn't know is that Philly didn't want him LOL!

If the Flames had traded him with 1 year left, they could have re-shaped that franchise in a different way. Instead, we saw the desperate moves that came afterwards when they traded Tkachuk and signed 31 year old Kadri to a 7 year contract.

He screwed that team not only last year but for the foreseeable future. To me, that's not a great GM.

Anyone can go around handing out crazy frikkin' deals that should theoretically improve your team for the short term but completely f*** over whoever takes over your job once you've been fired.
Worst GM in the league
 
Other than that, the 3 most glaring examples of players saying all the right things in the media but not really wanting to stay where they were are Tavares, Stastny and Gaudreau.
.... Paul Stastny.

Even Joe made his mistakes.
 
Another group is the solution with term, but flawed group. This is your Hayes and Kuznetsov group. Players who have shown they can play the role, but are flawed and/or have a bad contract to deal with. If you can get that knocked down though (which rule of thumb $6m total is a 1st and $3m is a 2nd), you can get a reasonableish cap hit and a player for a 2-3 year role for less than the 1 year group.

So Kuznetsov @ 6.3M (1.5M retained) would be his acquiring price + 2nd rounder? That's 1st round pick for Kuz and 2nd round pick for the retention. He wouldn't cost much more?

Hell, make it Kuznetsov @ 4M for 1st + 2nd + Newhook. If they value Newhook around 2nd round pick+.
 
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