Rumor: 2023-2024 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Offseason Edition

[Balthazar]

Why more sense than PLD? That is probably my favorite idea.

You really want to watch Miller on this team for the next 8 years? That just doesn't sound like a good idea lol, even with the mindset of the next two to three years being all that matters. Especially since they want real assets back.

I can deal with Landy being on the team in a reduced role as he ages. He's a machine, and I fully believe if he comes back he will have brought himself to the level he expects of himself. Not everyone has his work ethic though.

PLD is the best fit but I don't know if the Avs are willing to pay what it takes to get him and re-up him. Miller is signed for 7 years, his contract is basically a wash with Landy's (age and money) and I don't think the cost of acquisition would be very high.

Landy isn't coming back.

 

[CobraAcesS]

PLD is the best fit but I don't know if the Avs are willing to pay what it takes to get him and re-up him. Miller is signed for 7 years, his contract is basically a wash with Landy's (age and money) and I don't think the cost of acquisition would be very high.

Landy isn't coming back.

After watching his latest interview I believe he is. The surgery has an 80% chance of full recovery, and it's Landy lol.

If it works, he's coming back. IMO

 

[Balthazar]

After watching his latest interview I believe he is. The surgery has an 80% chance of full recovery, and it's Landy lol.

If it works, he's coming back. IMO

80% recovery so he can have a normal life, not 80% chance that he can still be a professional athlete.

The only NHL player (Methot) who had it before couldn't come back...they were optimist in the last Landy interview because an NBA player (Lonzo Ball) had the surgery too recently but, well, this happened last week:

 

[Cousin Eddie]

80% recovery so he can have a normal life, not 80% chance that he can still be a professional athlete.

The only NHL player (Methot) who had it before couldn't come back...they were optimist in the last Landy interview because an NBA player (Lonzo Ball) had the surgery too recently but, well, this happened last week:

Eric Tangredi’s career also ended following this surgery.

 

[CobraAcesS]

80% recovery so he can have a normal life, not 80% chance that he can still be a professional athlete.

The only NHL player (Methot) who had it before couldn't come back...they were optimist in the last Landy interview because an NBA player had it too recently but, well, this happened last week:

First one question, is it worth being a sponsor again? I seem to remember I let it go because they decided to still put an add somewhere, and the server crashes were often.

The adds are getting legit annoying level though.

Second, I don't think Landy would spend months researching and choose an option with that little detail left out.

Then there is Lindholm, but what does it really take to get PLD? Even if Girard isn't what WPG wants there are ways turn assets into other assets.

 

[redacted]

The hyperbole around Landy reminds me of the Eichel stuff. People were screaming he was done and that an unproven surgery was too risky… now he’s in the Finals and leading the team. We simply don’t know. There are signs that it can work (a soccer player in Europe can’t recall his name off hand) and signs that it won’t (Methot). Proclaiming either way seems premature to me. The only certainty I have is that Landy will give it a shot when he can… which is likely training camp 2024.

 

[Balthazar]

First one question, is it worth being a sponsor again? I seem to remember I let it go because they decided to still put an add somewhere, and the server crashes were often.

The adds are getting legit annoying level though.

Second, I don't think Landy would spend months researching and choose an option with that little detail left out.

Then there is Lindholm, but what does it really take to get PLD? Even if Girard isn't what WPG wants there are ways turn assets into other assets.

1- I don't see any ad.

2- Landy legit wants to come back and there's a small chance that he does...but keep in mind that he can't retire and has to show that he's doing his best to come back until his contract expires otherwise insurances will stop paying him. Just like the other guys on LTIR: Price, Weber, etc. These guys aren't retired and they have to keep consulting the team doctors on a regular basis.

3- PLD will be in high demand, I don't know what it will take but certainly more than JT Miller.

 

[Balthazar]

The hyperbole around Landy reminds me of the Eichel stuff.

I disagree. With Eichel there were proofs that it worked. It's just that he was the first NHL player to get it:

ADR surgery isn’t new. Developed decades ago, it has been used on injured extreme athletes (think mountain bikers, big-wave surfers), military pilots and casual athletes just looking to swing a golf club or tennis racket pain-free again.

With Landy, there are proofs that it doesn't work, if anything.

 

[redacted]

1- I don't see any ad.

2- Landy legit wants to come back and there's a small chance that he does...but keep in mind that he can't retire and has to show that he's doing his best to come back until his contract expires otherwise insurances will stop paying him. Just like the other guys on LTIR: Price, Weber, etc. These guys aren't retired and they have to keep consulting the team doctors on a regular basis.

3- PLD will be in high demand, I don't know what it will take but certainly more than JT Miller.

This is incorrect. Landy gets paid no matter what. NHL contracts are fully guaranteed. The only way he doesn't get the full payout is he either retires and walks away from the rest of the deal or he is bought out. He is also paid out by the team and only the team employing him. Any insurance on his contract is paid to the organization for them to pay Landy, not to Landy directly. We don't know if Landy's contract is insured for one and if it is how much it is insured to. Note the requirement to see team doctors is correct. They have to get a yearly physical to see if they are potentially cleared to play... but that is a pure formality. Chris Pronger got that physical and was working with the NHL while under contract. He was not trying to come back at all.

 

[CobraAcesS]

1- I don't see any ad.

2- Landy legit wants to come back and there's a small chance that he does...but keep in mind that he can't retire and has to show that he's doing his best to come back until his contract expires otherwise insurances will stop paying him. Just like the other guys on LTIR: Price, Weber, etc. These guys aren't retired and they have to keep consulting the team doctors on a regular basis.

3- PLD will be in high demand, I don't know what it will take but certainly more than JT Miller.

Thanks, I'll probably do it. The adds are almost to level of beating me into it lol.

I do realize I'm taking the higher risk betting on Landy, but sometimes you gotta go with your gut lol.

I'm happy they shut him down for the year, but I think the top six wing solution should either be a younger player who has a chance to step up, but brings a similar style. That way a trade is easy if needed. Or a one year thing (vomits) like Kane, or someone else who you can trade for cheap that will expire in a year. I think they'll know if he's going to return in 2024.

But the 2C needs to be a rock solid multi year solution obviously.

I get the one for one Landy/Miller idea, just not sure about that dude, and from recollection he's had his own injury issues.

 

[redacted]

I disagree. With Eichel there were proofs that it worked. It's just that he was the first NHL player to get it:

ADR surgery isn’t new. Developed decades ago, it has been used on injured extreme athletes (think mountain bikers, big-wave surfers), military pilots and casual athletes just looking to swing a golf club or tennis racket pain-free again.

With Landy, there are proofs that it doesn't work, if anything.

There is proof it can work too:

Former Liverpool prospect who went from nearly retiring at 22 to celebrating promotion - via a knee cartilage transplant

Shortly after making his debut for Liverpool Jordan Williams suffered a debilitating injury in his left knee - and was facing retirement

theathletic.com

Just because the surgery isn't new doesn't mean it doesn't get better. ACL surgery was first done in the 1890s and only got popular in the 1920s. It really took until the 1990s for it to become routinely successful for athletes. It also used to be that Tommy John had a success rate under 30% in the early days. Now we are well above 80% and it is a very common procedure.

Simply put, we just don't know at this point.

 

[Balthazar]

This is incorrect. Landy gets paid no matter what. NHL contracts are fully guaranteed. The only way he doesn't get the full payout is he either retires and walks away from the rest of the deal or he is bought out. He is also paid out by the team and only the team employing him. Any insurance on his contract is paid to the organization for them to pay Landy, not to Landy directly. We don't know if Landy's contract is insured for one and if it is how much it is insured to. Not the requirement to see team doctors is correct. They have to get a yearly physical to see if they are potentially cleared to play... but that is a pure formality. Chris Pronger got that physical and was working with the NHL while under contract. He was not trying to come back at all.

I said he can't retire and has to keep seeing the team doctors, you say he can't retire and has to have a yearly physical. That's close enough.

As for the keep showing good faith I stand corrected...but logic says that if you have, say, a broken foot in training camp and end up on LTIR you can't stay at home for the whole year and collect your paycheck until the next yearly physical.

 

[dmac7719]

I disagree. With Eichel there were proofs that it worked. It's just that he was the first NHL player to get it:

ADR surgery isn’t new. Developed decades ago, it has been used on injured extreme athletes (think mountain bikers, big-wave surfers), military pilots and casual athletes just looking to swing a golf club or tennis racket pain-free again.

With Landy, there are proofs that it doesn't work, if anything.

Return to Sports after Articular Cartilage Repair in the Football (Soccer) Player - PMC

The ability to return to football (soccer) presents a critical aspect for successful treatment of articular cartilage injury in the football (soccer) player. Information about sports participation after articular cartilage repair was collected from ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This proof that Landy's cartilage transplant surgery has had success? In athletes no less.

 

[Freaky Styley]

I know all of us are hoping for a Lindholm/Scheifele/PLD add.

But barring that, a good secondary option might be a Kubalik + Rasmussen package. Not sure what it would take, but I think Olausson + Newhook might be in the ballpark. Or just Girard by himself.

Only problem is that it would still leave us a hole at C, but if we re-sign Eller or if Toews decides he still wants to play that can insulate a guy like Rasmussen on the 3rd line.

Here's what that looks like, with just Girard heading over.

Nichuskin - MacKinnon - Kubalik
Lehkonen - Rasmussen - Rantanen

and you still have Newhook in the bottom 6. Combined, Rasmussen + Kubalik make 4M this season so you fill 2 forward slots and save 1M from G's contract. Still leaves a lot of money to play with from Landy's LTIR, Rasmussen is a JTC replacement and is an RFA this year

 

[CobraAcesS]

There is proof it can work too:

Former Liverpool prospect who went from nearly retiring at 22 to celebrating promotion - via a knee cartilage transplant

Shortly after making his debut for Liverpool Jordan Williams suffered a debilitating injury in his left knee - and was facing retirement

theathletic.com

Just because the surgery isn't new doesn't mean it doesn't get better. ACL surgery was first done in the 1890s and only got popular in the 1920s. It really took until the 1990s for it to become routinely successful for athletes. It also used to be that Tommy John had a success rate under 30% in the early days. Now we are well above 80% and it is a very common procedure.

Simply put, we just don't know at this point.

See if you combine that with who Landy is, and what he expects of himself. If he can physiologically heal to a level he can manage he'll be on the ice.

The guy played with pain for years, Literally said it in the interview.

Just my gut, but he is serious and feels he knows his body well enough that he almost snickered at the idea he'd be less of a player if he returned.

I am not betting against that guy if the surgery removes the pain and he still has mobility.

 

[redacted]

I said he can't retire and has to keep seeing the team doctors, you say he can't retire and has to have a yearly physical. That's close enough.

As for the keep showing good faith I stand corrected...but logic says that if you have, say, a broken foot in training camp and end up on LTIR you can't stay at home for the whole year and collect your paycheck until the next yearly physical.

The insurance has zero to do with Landy as well. That is on the organization and only for the organization. There are no requirements for Landy on the insurance side.

Overall in this situation, we just don't know and likely won't know until September/October 24 at the earliest. Even then, if he's playing, we won't know how long he will push it if it isn't working. Maybe he plays okay, but in pain for 2 seasons before it is done. Maybe he can't go at all. We just don't know.

 

[Balthazar]

The insurance has zero to do with Landy as well. That is on the organization and only for the organization. There are no requirements for Landy on the insurance side.

Overall in this situation, we just don't know and likely won't know until September/October 24 at the earliest. Even then, if he's playing, we won't know how long he will push it if it isn't working. Maybe he plays okay, but in pain for 2 seasons before it is done. Maybe he can't go at all. We just don't know.

Let's just hope that the org isn't planning on having him back, that's all I'm saying. It's one thing for fans to hope he comes back and try to find Cinderella stories but the team can't act like that.

If by some sort of miracle he comes back then just cross that bridge with the AAV and all that stuff when it happens.

The Avs have to use Landy's cap space this summer and not just on a one year plan "just in case". They gotta act like he's retired.

 

[redacted]

Let's just hope that the org isn't planning on having him back, that's all I'm saying. It's one thing for fans to hope he comes back and try to find Cinderella stories but the team can't act like that.

If by some sort of miracle he comes back then just cross that bridge with the AAV and all that stuff when it happens.

The Avs have to use Landy's cap space this summer and not just on a one year plan "just in case". They gotta act like he's retired.

They can't just ignore either though... If Landy is good to go next training camp and they are $7m over the cap, they have a pretty rough situation to handle. Cap issues are never impossible to handle, but to date, we haven't see how the Avs would handle one of those issues. Mostly because they try to just stay within regardless. Which, if they take the same path they normally do, it would be a one year situation this year and then plan on Landy back next summer. The merits of that can be debated either way, but as of today, I'd say that is the path the Avs most likely take.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Let's just hope that the org isn't planning on having him back, that's all I'm saying. It's one thing for fans to hope he comes back and try to find Cinderella stories but the team can't act like that.

If by some sort of miracle he comes back then just cross that bridge with the AAV and all that stuff when it happens.

The Avs have to use Landy's cap space this summer and not just on a one year plan "just in case". They gotta act like he's retired.

Definitely agree, except you can't plan life long term without Landy, until you can, but that is where the idea of Crouse or a player similar comes in. Just a physical winger who can move up, or be given a shot is what I mean.

If that player produces and works even close to as well as Lehkky did then there is zero issues moving out salary. If Landy does not return you do have a future solution.

Obviously that costs assets we have sparingly, and would probably be more than looking for a UFA, or a limited T6 winger solution at the TDL.

So I think at wing the solution is likely a short term one. Even if they roll with Newhook up there lol.

 

[dahrougem2]

Stay the F**K away from ROR at all costs as a UFA.

Guy is going to command premium dollars AND is a 3C now. Gross.

 

[Balthazar]

They can't just ignore either though... If Landy is good to go next training camp and they are $7m over the cap, they have a pretty rough situation to handle.

It's much easier to handle than trading assets for a 2C this summer and then having to do it again next summer because we only had a one year solution. That's a no-no.

Say we trade for Miller and Landy comes back then we just get rid of someone else next summer. Losing a dman like Girard/Manson/Toews + cap increase will mostly pay for it. If Landy doesn't come back then you can use some of that money on a top 6 wing + forward depth.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[AllAboutAvs]

To me there are tiers of solutions... and very few of them are ideal.

The ideal ones are the guys like Bennett who are legit 2nd liners, have term beyond a year, and have a reasonable cap hit. There are very few who actually fit here... and they would be absurdly expensive. Avs would have to stomach a big move.

Then you get to the likely 1 year solution guys, but legitimately solve the position for a year. The PLD, Scheif, Lindholm group. Now PLD might jump to a different category if he signed a long-term deal,, but odds are he's going 1 year and cashing in or going to Montreal straight up. These guys have less cost, but still a pretty high premium (1st + top prospect + young roster player).

Another group is the solution with term, but flawed group. This is your Hayes and Kuznetsov group. Players who have shown they can play the role, but are flawed and/or have a bad contract to deal with. If you can get that knocked down though (which rule of thumb $6m total is a 1st and $3m is a 2nd), you can get a reasonableish cap hit and a player for a 2-3 year role for less than the 1 year group.

Then there is the promising and projection group. Guys like Mittelstadt and Lundell... there is a huge variance in these names, but betting on a younger guy who has shown promise, but likely hasn't established. Cost will vary quite a bit and this is one of the riskier options depending on the name.

Lastly there are the guys who are tire plugs for the role. The Henrique and Roslovic sorts who are not really 2Cs, but can play center. This is the sort of guy who the Avs would feel their winger depth would elevate a player. They are cheapish to get, cheapish on contract, and not a great chance that they end up a real solution... but a chance.

Miller is an outlier from each of these... given his contract term, AAV, and age. You're not getting Vancouver to retain for the full term... so you have to accept the contract as is and be willing to move some pieces.

Shame on you not even mentioning Compher as a possible 2C.

 

[niwotsblessing]

There goes our best shot at a 2C.

 

[Bender]

Good job leafs - treliving did such an amazing job in calgary!!!