- Apr 25, 2006
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He'd also cost more to acquire than any run-to-the-mill 2C. So it's pretty pointless.
Rumor: 2023-2024 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Offseason Edition
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Metallo
NWOBHM forever \m/
Exactly. Also, at some point the Avs need to learn to dump contracts, I mean that's why we have a team in AZ, right?
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expatriatedtexan
Habitual Line Stepper
- Aug 17, 2005
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Problem is the Avs haven't really had a bad contract per say in a while. What they do is overpay everyone by 250K and it's death from a thousand papercuts.
I can’t see it. Obviously there’s some dumb GMs and nothing is impossible, but it’s improbable.
Pietrangelo (31) signed for 7 x 8.8 mil offer and was a top 5 defenseman and just won a Cup.
Hamilton (28) signed a 7 x 9 mil offer after being the #2 defenseman on the Canes and IIRC was top 10 in Norris votes.
Hampus Lindholm (28) got a 8 x 6.5 mil offer. He was coming off some rough years, but had a great showing with l the Bruins.
Toews (30) closest comparable is Lindholm IMO.
Pietrangelo was a flat cap though.
Toews is going to be a UFA in the 1st summer where the cap goes up considerably and everyone will have money to spend. I also think he's shown to be a fair bit better then Lindholm before he signed that deal, much closer to Hamilton levels.
I dont know if he gets $9M, but $8M+ would easily be on the market for him, assuming no regression next year and he's still playing like a Top 20 Dman in the league.
At the same time, Toews doesn't strike me as a guy who would necessarily chase the most money. And given how close he and Makar are and how much he seems to enjoy playing with Cale and the Avs... I wouldn't be surprised to see him take a fairly substantial discount to stick around. Especially if the Avs offer that 8th year to drive the cap down further, it wouldn't shock me at all to see him sign for like 8x$6.5-$7M.
- Apr 25, 2006
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Ah yes, that famous discount that our UFA's always take. Just like Landy, Mack, Nuke, Helm, Cogliano, Manson...
You never ever learn do you?
John Mandalorian
2022 Avs: The First Dance
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It's tricky for the Avs. If Toews' camp drags it's feet early this summer, their intentions become revealed. And the Avs possibly need to shift to trading Toews.
But if the Avs trade Toews during/before, that gives Byrams camp leverage.
But if the Avs trade Toews during/before, that gives Byrams camp leverage.
Bender
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2002
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LOL - should we look for the posts where people on this very forum kept saying stuff like "Landeskog is going to want NO LESS than $8M per season... hell he could even get $8.5 or $9M from a desperate team!!"
Landeskog goes on to sign for the $7M per that just about everyone expected.
Pierce said "he wouldn't be surprised"... he didn't flat-out say that was his expectation or worse, speak in absolutes about it as many people seem to do on here.
Based on his personality, I woudn't be surprised either if Toews signed a reasonable contract to stay with the Avs. Everyone already knows that IF he wants to maximize his next deal as Kuemper did, he won't be with the Avs.
Now if you're talking about Byram, I won't be surprised based on HIS personality if he wants to break the bank on his next deal and even price himself out of what the Avs are willing to pay.
It could be completely the opposite and Toews wants to break the bank and Byram accepts something reasonable but I'll be surprised if that's what happens.
- Apr 25, 2006
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There was a rumor of a 8M X 7 offer waiting for him on the open market and he signed for 7M X 8 with the Avs. That's a discount of $0.
Same with Nuke, (NJ IIRC) was ready to offer him 7M X 7. He signed for 6.125M X 8 with the Avs. $0 discount.
Mack became the highest paid player in the league. Manson signed at UFA value and the rest of them too.
There's nothing wrong with that, it's just a myth that never dies that fans want to believe that the players they love will sign for less for the team they love.
It happened at one point in Boston and Tampa and it's no longer the case with Sergachev and McAvoy signing for market value. For it to works it has to be the whole team buying in and not just some players.
BobRossColton
Registered User
Go get more Finns, sign Niko Mikkola as depth D to replace G. Trade for Eetu Loustarinen. Sign Kiviranta. Keep Ranta up for the 4th line.
Bender
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I think a lot of people 'hope' a discount happens not necessarily that they expect it to happen.
What if Toews signs an extension for 7 years X $7.5M per year? Is that a discount ? I guess it depends who you talk to and what their expectations are. If people think that he can get $9M+ per year on the open market in the summer of 2024 - then yeah, I guess that's a discount compared to that but that's also a year away.
It's not really about the whole team buying-in though. It's more about Toews and if he likes playing in Colorado, if he and his family enjoy living there and want to continue to play for this team. As we saw with Gaudreau & Klingberg last summer, trying to max out your value in UFA doesn't always give you the desired results. I'm totally sure that 'Johnny Hockey' was expecting to land in Philadelphia or some other big market for huge money after a 110 point season and essentially telling Calgary to f*** off. He ends up settling to play in a shitty market for a crappy franchise that's done nothing in 20+ years. Not all players end up testing UFA especially those that like their current situation.
If there's a willingness to extend with 1 year left on his contract from the team and the player, I feel confident they'll get it done. Otherwise, the Avs will have to decide if they are better off keeping him and his $4.1M to go 'all-in' next year OR trade him and then try to replace him.
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Toews's family seems settled in Colorado, and he seems to have a genuine on ice and off ice friendship with Makar.
I don't think he'll direct his agent to extract maximum possible money and I think if the Avs give him an offer that he considers "fair," he'll sign it without hesitation. Just like Makar did, who was well within his rights to push for more in his RFA deal.
Mighty Makar
I hate this fu*ken team
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Sign Toews to a long term deal and trade G this summer.
- Apr 25, 2006
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I cant see the post you're responding too(The good old ignore list working well here I assume), but yeah Landy 100% took a discount, pretty sizable one as well. He had offers of $9M on a 7 year deal that summer.
As for the rest, yeah I wouldn't be surprised to see Toews take a discount with us, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Byram try and penny and dime the Avs for every bit he can... Its part of the reason why I'm also more open to dealing him. I dont think we can afford him if he goes that route. We're talking a 2 year bridge deal in the range of $5M and then probably a long term deal north of $9M, we cant afford to have two Dmen in that $9M+ range.
atreyuavenged
Registered User
Try and sign Toews to the Lindholm deal. Trade G for someone like Pageau. Or maybe as a package for someone like Miller or Sheifele.
GirardSpinorama
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Pageau is awesome but a bit older than I'd like. I actually want to trade G for Texier and Peak. Two good complementary pieces cost controlled.
dahrougem2
Registered User
Toews is the vastly superior player now, and likely will be for the duration of Girard's contract.
Age does not matter here. The Avs will not be good in 4/5 years when MacKinnon is no longer in his prime dominating. I don't get why people are so worried about long term when the Avs are clearly trying to win now.
Teams have ebs and flows. We are eventually going to become the Sharks of today. It just happens when you go all in like SJ did for over a decade. They got one finals appearance. We have 1 cup and can still go for more.
Ararana
Registered User
This post would hit better if we didn't just see Nuke do this less than a year ago.
- Apr 25, 2006
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If you think Nuke and his 8 years took a discount then yes, Toews would take a discount too. Rantanen as well. Byram, Makar...everyone will.
I'd rather use the money elsewhere for the short-term. Loosing G and the extra cap space isn't worth it.
Toothless Legend
Registered User
Fair concern, but given his skating ability, IQ, and style of play, I think the aging curve is going to be a bit better to him than other similarly situated dmen.
dahrougem2
Registered User
Losing G will not hurt this team. Like at all.
He was good in the playoffs this year, but he's already regressing from what we saw last year. Unless he was playing through something, I have serious concerns about him going forward.
We also can't just keep paying guys. We have to trade or let people go. It's crucial that we find players that fit our system on good deals. We just simply can't pay our top pairing 17.5 million or more.
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