Rumor: 2023-2024 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Offseason Edition

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Marner is a great player. He is not worth his contract.

I think Marner can be worth his contract. He actually is really good both offensively and defensively. I think the issue is that the Leafs core guys are more skill/offensive guys, they don't really have a higher skill guy like MacKinnon who gets a bit heated.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Nobody is untouchable except for Makar, MacKinnon, and Rantanen.

Toews, Byram, and Girard should all be on the table to get a centre. Not just any centre. If it’s kind of a 2/3C hybrid, then you’re not moving Toews, or Byram. It has to be a real good centre. You also don’t just trade Girard because you feel he’s the worst of the bunch. He’s still a useful player for this team and the return will be worse. Get the right player. Maybe that means moving Girard, maybe it’s Toews, maybe it’s Byram.

The Avs have an embarrassment of riches on the backend right now. It’s more than what’s necessary. The team was clearly imbalanced this year.

The bold move is trading Toews. I actually think it could have a lot of upside. Particularly if it lands a really good centre.

I think the anti-trade Toews group looks at moving him as weakening the defensive side of the team, but improving the forward group actually does make the team better defensively. If you can actually put together a good top-9 you can control the play much better and make it so much easier on your defence.

I think there’s a lot of options. Everything should be explored. I’m absolutely steadfast on the belief that the talent level between the forwards and defence needs to be better balanced though. We can’t roll out a one-line team again next playoff.

 

[sethro109]

I think Marner can be worth his contract. He actually is really good both offensively and defensively. I think the issue is that the Leafs core guys are more skill/offensive guys, they don't really have a higher skill guy like MacKinnon who gets a bit heated.

If your cap hit is 8 figures, you need to be able to drive the play consistently. He absolutely does not do that.

 

[The Abusement Park]

If your cap hit is 8 figures, you need to be able to drive the play consistently. He absolutely does not do that.

Huh? The dudes as good of a play driving winger in the league as there is.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I don't see it. The offense has awful depth, even with a #2C. The Avs rely heavily on their Dcore to get things done, it's just not going to be the same without Toews.

If the intention is to contend right now you don't trade top pairing defensemen. #2C needs to be acquired with other pieces. Avs have all their 1st rounders, prospects, Newhook, Girard etc. Something will get you an acceptable 2nd line C, he doesn't need to be a star forward.

They have 5 forwards signed right now for next year... you have no idea what the forward depth will look like. We do know however that even without Toews, we would still have Makar, Byram, Girard, and Manson all signed.

Adding a legit 2C completely changes the dynamic of the forward group. You don't need great winger depth if you have great Center depth. You don't need elite defensive depth if you have elite Center depth.

If your cap hit is 8 figures, you need to be able to drive the play consistently. He absolutely does not do that.

He's literally the best play driving winger in the league...

 

[sethro109]

Huh? The dudes as good of a play driving winger in the league as there is.

Not in the playoffs. He turned into a ghost.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Whatever happens with Toews he can't walk, that would be an absolute disaster and set the team back quite a bit.

 

[Balthazar]

Whatever happens with Toews he can't walk, that would be an absolute disaster amd set the team back quite a bit.

He can be our "own rental" for next season but that will hurt us later of course.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

He can be our "own rental" for next season but that will hurt us later of course.

That would be awful. Re-sign or trade, anything else is a massive L.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Not in the playoffs. He turned into a ghost.

That I agree with. The dudes a mental midget and it’s apparent in the post season. But in the RS(which is a way bigger sample size) the dude plays and produces at an elite level offensively and defensively.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Toews will be 30 when his contract ends. He'd likely get something between 7 x 7-8 mil ($49-56 mil) on the open market.

There's a decent chance Toews takes a 8 x 6.5 mil (52 mil) contract if the Avs offered it to him. He's worth the $1.5 mil premium over Girard.

I would agree, except if he tests the market, some bonehead is going to offer him something he really can't afford to refuse. I mean if someone gives him 7x9M for example. That's 63M with a years less work. And I think he would be offered something close to 8.5-9.5M on the market.

 

[shadow1]

Byram will take the 1LD spot within 2 years, keep Toews and you'll have a 2nd pairing dman making 7-8M (as opposed to 5M if we keep Sammy).

You can compartmentalize things that way from a financial standpoint, but not from a performance standpoint.

Last year it took all (3) of Byram, Makar, and Toews playing huge minutes in the playoffs to capture the Stanley Cup. Byram was technically the 2nd pairing guy, but he averaged 6 minutes more per night than his defensive partner (EJ).

Keeping Girard may be less expensive than keeping Toews, but he's no where near the player.

 

[sethro109]

That I agree with. The dudes a mental midget and it’s apparent in the post season. But in the RS(which is a way bigger sample size) the dude plays and produces at an elite level offensively and defensively.

I don't give two shits about regular season. It's not like we're struggling to make the playoffs. If he can't perform in the playoffs he's just wasted cap. He's proven year after year he's not worth his cap hit. We need playoff performers. We don't need more Comphe's, especially at 10 f***ing mil a season. We need more Lehkonens at wing. What we really need to focus on is a Center that can provide at least a little offense and is sound defensively. Marner is none of those things. He's a terrible fit for our current structure.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Not in the playoffs. He turned into a ghost.

14 points in 11 games this year and 8 in 7 last year. Hardly "ghost" numbers.


He does need to be better, but on a team like the Avs for example where the pressure comes off him not only from getting away from the Toronto media, but also having a playoff superstar on the team already(Multiple stars for that matter) he would do so much better.

 

[sethro109]

14 points in 11 games this year and 8 in 7 last year. Hardly "ghost" numbers.


He does need to be better, but on a team like the Avs for example where the pressure comes off him not only from getting away from the Toronto media, but also having a playoff superstar on the team already(Multiple stars for that matter) he would do so much better.

How many points in the second round?

 

[Balthazar]

Why are we talking about Marner again?

Keeping Girard may be less expensive than keeping Toews, but he's no where near the player.

Age is a thing.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I don't give two shits about regular season. It's not like we're struggling to make the playoffs. If he can't perform in the playoffs he's just wasted cap. He's proven year after year he's not worth his cap hit. We need playoff performers. We don't need more Comphe's, especially at 10 f***ing mil a season. We need more Lehkonens at wing. What we really need to focus on is a Center that can provide at least a little offense and is sound defensively. Marner is none of those things. He's a terrible fit for our current structure.

Yeesh. I’m not advocating to add Marner, just saying that Marner can‘t drive play is an objectively false statement.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Meh I don’t even see the big deal with keeping Toews as our own rental. If any team needs a rental it’s Colorado.

If they don’t plan on extending him and a long term 2C is a viable trade option for him, sure maybe you look at taking advantage of that as they did with Barrie. But im not trading him just for the sake of trading him. I wouldn’t accept a deal revolving around picks or prospects. I’d trade him for a long term C and that’s it.

 

[sethro109]

Yeesh. I’m not advocating to add Marner, just saying that Marner can‘t drive play is an objectively false statement.

Okay fair.

Marner can't drive the play when his team needs him too.

 

[Gruyeriev]

That would be awful. Re-sign or trade, anything else is a massive L.

The only exception to this would be winning another cup. I think putting all your chips on the table to win is kind of what you have to do in your window. That’s why a futures trade or a young unproven 2C isn’t the right move for this franchise right now.

 

[Bender]

Prediction: History will repeat itself.

Barrie had 1 year left under contract, Makar was going to take his RD spot, Barrie got traded for a 2C with term.

Toews has 1 year left under contract, Byram is going to take his LD spot, Toews will get traded for a 2C with term.

Prediction - History will NOT repeat itself because FINALLY the Avs were able to find a player who CAN play #2D on the top pair and play it very well. (unlike Barrie)

Byram hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy for more than half a season - let alone replace Toews on the top pair. I like your optimism but just because you sign him long-term, it doesn't mean that magically all his injury history is behind him. What happens IF the Avs trade Devon for a #2C and then Byram gets injured and misses significant time?? We've seen the Girard-Makar pairing and it's not pretty... who's playing D then beyond Makar and Girard ?

I believe that unless Toews wants an absurd amount of money per year (like $8.5-$9M per), he will be re-signed by the Avs to ensure that we have that steady top pair at least for the next 4-5 years. THAT gives us the best chance to win during that period of time. Beyond that, it's possible that the Avs stay competitive in the later years of MacKinnon's and Makar's careers but they'll probably be a team that resemble what the Pittsburgh Penguins have been for the past 3-4 years unless the Avs get real lucky drafting like the Bruins did when they got Bergeron and Krejci in the 2nd round in back-to-back years.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

BTW even though I'm saying the Avs could handle trading Toews, I'm still not advocating for it. He would actually be the last of the 3 Dmen that I would deal as he is the best of the 3 right now and gives us the best chance to win a cup out of those 3 guys.


I'd trade Byram before I trade Toews. And I'd trade Girard before trading Byram... But I think Girards trade return is going to be pretty disappointing when it happens. I dont think he solves the 2C situation.


But for the right deal I'd trade any of them if it fixes the 2C spot long term.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

BTW even though I'm saying the Avs could handle trading Toews, I'm still not advocating for it. He would actually be the last of the 3 Dmen that I would deal as he is the best of the 3 right now and gives us the best chance to win a cup out of those 3 guys.


I'd trade Byram before I trade Toews. And I'd trade Girard before trading Byram... But I think Girards trade return is going to be pretty disappointing when it happens. I dont think he solves the 2C situation.


But for the right deal I'd trade any of them if it fixes the 2C spot long term.

How much more on top of Girard, would it take? A first? Two firsts? I don't think we own a second the rest of this decade. Or is Girard just a piece that no GM is going to want to base the deal around?

I can't help but think Girard is well priced for what he brings to the table. He's not a world beater by any means though but is a capable second pairing dman. That cost certainty though with the flat cap was something I thought would be a better selling point, but it sounds like the time for that would have been last year potentially as I've heard the cap will go up 1M this year and then be set to start growing again in the summer of '24.

 

[Vaslof]

Dubas is free. New GM?

 

[Ararana]

But I think Girards trade return is going to be pretty disappointing when it happens. I dont think he solves the 2C situation.

Yup. They'll end up extending Toews and trading Girard for a disappointing return. We've seen the smoke for a while now.