Rumor: 2023-2024 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Offseason Edition

[Belgican]

Do those Meyers numbers include the goal in his own net

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Interesting stats and doesn't really mean much until production follows... but Meyers goals per 60 was 5th on the team, his ixG per 60 was tied with MacKinnon, his individual chances for per 60 were the highest on the team for a player with more than 10 games. I don't have it handy, but I think his slot passes per 60 was 2nd or 3rd.

There is a decent argument if you don't put him with stone hands players that the production will follow. The best offensive forward he played with for any stretch of time was Newhook... Meyers had 3 goals in less than 80 minutes with Newhook.

IMO Meyers didn't do himself any favors this year, but he's not a lost cause right now. In fact, he's a guy that should get some run early next season to see if the underlying translates.

I think there’s room for optimism and it’s certainly not time to give up on the player.

I’m not a big believer in per 60 stats in general, but especially so with a guy like Meyers who is barely seeing the ice. I don’t think it’s just a matter of getting more minutes.

It seems like there’s a lack of an ability to get the play across the finish line.

Newhook on the other hand can get plays across the finish line, but his overall game was messy for long stretches of the year.

 

[henchman21]

I think there’s room for optimism and it’s certainly not time to give up on the player.

I’m not a big believer in per 60 stats in general, but especially so with a guy like Meyers who is barely seeing the ice. I don’t think it’s just a matter of getting more minutes.

It seems like there’s a lack of an ability to get the play across the finish line.

Newhook on the other hand can get plays across the finish line, but his overall game was messy for long stretches of the year.

Per 60 tends to be misleading. More or less though, there are signs that something is there and he's been very good in the AHL this year. That doesn't mean he'll be successful, but it is a sign you shouldn't cut him loose right away especially considering the chance assists he creates. If this goes for a 2nd year... then you have enough of a picture IMO.

Newhook's finishing skill really isn't that good either. When you really drill into it too, it gets even worse. He's not adept at creating high quality chances for others, and he only really finishes strongly himself in about a 10' area. Which isn't a real high opportunity area in the NHL.

 

[Avs9296]

Interesting stats and doesn't really mean much until production follows... but Meyers goals per 60 was 5th on the team, his ixG per 60 was tied with MacKinnon, his individual chances for per 60 were the highest on the team for a player with more than 10 games. I don't have it handy, but I think his slot passes per 60 was 2nd or 3rd.

There is a decent argument if you don't put him with stone hands players that the production will follow. The best offensive forward he played with for any stretch of time was Newhook... Meyers had 3 goals in less than 80 minutes with Newhook.

IMO Meyers didn't do himself any favors this year, but he's not a lost cause right now. In fact, he's a guy that should get some run early next season to see if the underlying translates.

Meyers IS the stone hands player (well one of many in the bottom six anyways).

 

[henchman21]

Meyers IS the stone hands player (well one of many in the bottom six anyways).

That's not true...

 

[Pokecheque]

Meyers IS the stone hands player (well one of many in the bottom six anyways).

No, I wouldn't say he's got stone hands, he's actually got decent puck skill, problem at present is that his decision making is still about a second too slow at the NHL level and he's not able to get the puck past the goalie. Not for lack of trying at least.

I'd say keep him around even though I'm very skeptical as to his NHL potential.

 

[dahrougem2]

Meyers is in a no-win situation. He's probably not good enough to play 3C yet if he's 4C next season he's going to play 6-7 minutes because let's face it, if you're not a trusted vet Bednar wants no part of you on the 4th line playing meaningful minutes.

 

[Avs9296]

That's not true...

what? Did you see that 2 on 1 he had where he couldn't even pull it off the boards and control the puck with no one around him?

The guy has great speed and tenacity I'll give him that, he has no hands tho at this moment. Maybe it's nerves I don't know, but he fumbled sooooo many pucks and missed so many scoring chances this year.

 

[the_fan]

You guys wanna see something depressing?

Kaut in 9 games he played for the Sharks, was pacing a 45 point season.

Newhook had 30 points in 82 games

 

[henchman21]

what? Did you see that 2 on 1 he had where he couldn't even pull it off the boards and control the puck with no one around him?

The guy has great speed and tenacity I'll give him that, he has no hands tho at this moment. Maybe it's nerves I don't know, but he fumbled sooooo many pucks and missed so many scoring chances this year.

Does the bold mean it is more true?

I've watched him for a long time. He doesn't have stone hands. Stone hand players don't create chances for others at the rate he does and a fumbled random play doesn't change that.

 

[dahrougem2]

Oh I definitely think Ben Meyers struggles to make plays with the puck in tighter areas.

Give him lots of space to maneuver and he's fine. In corners/battles? I think he has stone hands.

 

[henchman21]

Oh I definitely think Ben Meyers struggles to make plays with the puck in tighter areas.

Give him lots of space to maneuver and he's fine. In corners/battles? I think he has stone hands.

He struggles when leaned on for sure. That's a size/strength... most importantly edges issue more than his hands.

 

[Avs9296]

Does the bold mean it is more true?

I've watched him for a long time. He doesn't have stone hands. Stone hand players don't create chances for others at the rate he does and a fumbled random play doesn't change that.

No the bold just means I don't know how to use this forum very well. Glad you found it hilarious tho.

If Meyers had good hands he would have converted on many more occasions than he did this year. Again I'm not saying he'll never get there, maybe it was nerves this year, but he didn't look like a guy with good hands put it that way.

I know you like to be the authority around here of what's right and what's wrong, but that's my opinion and the stats back that up.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I feel Meyers hands are way down the list of reasons why he struggled. His finishing is awful, but that’s not necessarily a hands thing.

 

[henchman21]

No the bold just means I don't know how to use this forum very well. Glad you found it hilarious tho.

If Meyers had good hands he would have converted on many more occasions than he did this year. Again I'm not saying he'll never get there, maybe it was nerves this year, but he didn't look like a guy with good hands put it that way.

I know you like to be the authority around here of what's right and what's wrong, but that's my opinion and the stats back that up.

I'm not an authority on anything, so check the attitude.

Individual finishing ability is less about hand than other factors. His own scoring issues are more of a shot volume, accuracy and power issue. You might want to backtrack the stats part. Meyers' chance assists and passes to the slot rates were one of the highest on the team. Which means he's controlling the puck well enough to be able to deliver the puck to the dangerous areas of the ice at a consistently high rate, zero assists means his linemates were not converting. It isn't typical that a player is high in those areas with having stone hands. Meyers can't win a battle to save his life and isn't good when leaned on, but that isn't a hands issue with him, it is a skating issue.

 

[Avs_19]

Avs twitter is an interesting place. Literally none of this is accurate about Newhook's game right now and I don't even think it's debatable.

 

[Pokecheque]

You want to see stone hands, watch blink-and-you-missed-it Av Dean McAmmond attempt a penalty shot. I had stone hands as a player but holy shit I've never seen an NHL player chop wood like that before. And what's funny is that McAmmond was reasonably productive because he had a really good one-timer and spent a good portion of his NHL career alongside two tremendously talented linemates.

What's so frustrating about Meyers is that I think he's got NHL speed and he's actually does have above-average puck skill. But the finish at the NHL level is nonexistent and he's a little too easy to knock off the puck. I also do not like his defensive instincts much at all.

Avs twitter is an interesting place. Literally none of this is accurate about Newhook's game right now and I don't even think it's debatable.

I think a lot of Avs fans get waaaaay too sentimental with some players. Like, because they happen to be likeable/adorable that somehow makes them good? And they just kinda make up some narrative. I still remember getting attacked when I mentioned that Tyson Jost's skating was not great.

Newhook's a bit deceiving because there is a bit of flash to his game. You see one of those end-to-end rushes of his or a big shot and it's easy to convince yourself there's a legit scoring talent there. And there is...under certain circumstances.

 

[Pokecheque]

Meyers is in a no-win situation. He's probably not good enough to play 3C yet if he's 4C next season he's going to play 6-7 minutes because let's face it, if you're not a trusted vet Bednar wants no part of you on the 4th line playing meaningful minutes.

I don't think that's a vet thing, that's him deciding if he can trust guys out there in a defensive grinder role. He had no issue putting guys like Kerfoot, Compher, and Jost in roles like that, even before they were established players. Guys like Meyers and Newhook have proven to be big defensive liabilities thus far. I'll give them both credit, you can tell the effort to be better defensively is there, but it's still not good enough.

Bednar has never had an issue with young players so long as they proved themselves.

 

[henchman21]

People love their young top prospects who are hyped as the next big thing. Newhook doesn't create chances at a high rate, he doesn't contribute to shot assists at a high rate, he's frequently behind the play (maybe this is the noticeable part?)... what he does do is for a 5 game stretch he will have 2 or 3 flash plays a game... then go back to non-existence. He just doesn't have enough to completely separate him. He has fallen trap to the player that was always such a better skater than everyone else being able to do whatever he wanted because of that... now finding in the NHL that 75% of the league is a good skater and there isn't much margin.

I don't think it is vets with Bednar. I think it is effort and consistently winning board battles. LOC has been trusted heavily since he stepped in... he has a high motor and he wins battles. Bednar overlooks the other shortcomings in his game because he does those things well. If you lose battles, you don't last long with Bednar in a bottom 6 role.

 

[madman]

Avs twitter is an interesting place. Literally none of this is accurate about Newhook's game right now and I don't even think it's debatable.

Avs twitter should be avoided at all costs

 

[henchman21]

Can I also state that AJ should not be the guy evaluating Newhook?! AJ has vastly overrated him for years and is a complete homer on him.

 

[Alienblood]

what? Did you see that 2 on 1 he had where he couldn't even pull it off the boards and control the puck with no one around him?

The guy has great speed and tenacity I'll give him that, he has no hands tho at this moment. Maybe it's nerves I don't know, but he fumbled sooooo many pucks and missed so many scoring chances this year.

He has zero offensively ability pr looks like it .

 

[Muffin]

If you could do it again would you take Krebs over Newhook?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

If you could do it again would you take Krebs over Newhook?

I would move up and take Caufield.


Although if it were me I also would have just flat out took Caufield at #4 and then taken a Dman at #16 lol.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Avs twitter is an interesting place. Literally none of this is accurate about Newhook's game right now and I don't even think it's debatable.

Technically he’s right on some points, Newhook is all over the place. Unfortunately, 98% of the time it’s the wrong place.