Rumor: 2023-2024 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Offseason Edition

[Vaslof]

Avs need to trade for 2C: Lindholm, Bennett or sign UFA O’Reilly.

O’Reilly leadership good be good if Landeskog can’t return playing

ROR as the captain? I think I'll just become a Minny fan or something.

 

[bromando]

I don't like any of these options lol.

I have accepted Jonathan Drouin will be an Av come training camp likely at 1M per season contract.

If the Avs can bring in guys like Kampf and Haula, our bottom-six might look a lot faster next season especially if Foudy makes the NHL jump.

If the Avs could pull off a Girard for Mittelstadt swap then we could potentially be running:

Drouin - MacKinnon - Nichushkin
Landeskog - Mittelstadt - Rantanen
Lehkonen - Haula - Foudy
XXX - Kampf - O'Connor

I've liked Haula since his Wild days even though I hated the rest of his team. Thought he'd fit like a glove back then and if he still plays the same, think he'd fit super well now. Just haven't kept up with him enough to know...why has he bounced around so much? I would've thought he'd have gotten a long term contract by now or at least a couple mid-term middle six contracts.

 

[dahrougem2]

I must say, I am finding it a bit amusing that after Buffalo stayed the course and remained patient with their boy Mittlestadt that some people on here are now banging the table to acquire him meanwhile back at the ranch, there is NO WAY that Newhook could possibly improve after 2 NHL seasons.

(Ice time listed is amongst forwards on the team - kinda obvious but whatevs)

Mittlestadt
2017-18 Buffalo 6GP 1G 4A 5PTS [Only played 6 games]
2018-19 Buffalo 77GP 12G 13A 25PTS [13;27 TOI (10th on team) + 1:46 PPTOI/game (6th on team)]
*2019-20 Buffalo 31GP 4G 5A 9PTS (* +36 games in the AHL) [Sent down to AHL for development]
2020-21 Buffalo 41GP 10G 12A 22PTS [15;53 TOI (6th on team) + 2:13 PPTOI/game (5th on team)]
2021-22 Buffalo 40GP 6G 13A 19PTS [16;07 TOI (5th on team) + 2:31 PPTOI/game (4th on team)]
2022-23 Buffalo 82GP 15G 44A 59PTS [15;44 TOI (5th on team) + 2:06 PPTOI/game (6th on team)]

6 Full NHL Seasons

Newhook
2020-21 Colorado 6GP 0G 3A 3PTS [Only played 6 games]
2021-22 Colorado 71GP 13G 20A 33PTS [13:36 TOI (9th on team) + 1:23 PPTOI (9th on team)]
2022-23 Colorado 82GP 14G 16A 30PTS [13:57 TOI (8th on team) + 1:22 PPTOI/game (7th on team)]

2 Full NHL Seasons

This whole nonsense about Newhook having ZERO value because he wasn't able to fill-in the #2C spot as a 2nd year player is ridiculous. He's a young player that is still learning and progressing just like Mittlestadt was and just like Hayton was and still is.

I'm not doing Hayton's stats but he was Top-4 in forward ice time for both 5-on-5 and PP time. Give that kind of opportunity to Newhook and does he also put up an extra 13 points for a total of 43?? I think so.

My main point is that people have been unfairly dumping on Newhook on here all frikkin' season long because he couldn't replace Kadri while given a modest at best opportunity. JTC seems to get a pass from a lot of people because he was almost able to do it until he started to pout after the trade deadline, putting up a lousy 12 points in his last 30 games in an Avalanche uniform including playoffs.

Will Newhook eventually be able to develop into a Top-6 player? I don't know the answer to that but I am starting to question whether it's going to be possible under Jarred Bednar. We have not been able to develop a good young forward since he's been here and that's not to say it's his fault necessarily, it's just the way it goes.

In any case, with the Avs present core where it's at, they should NOT be in the business to be patient and wait for and maybe even worse, count on development.

@henchman21 -> Don't.

Perhaps Newhook eventually develops, but I didn't see a single thing this past season that screamed "top six forward" with regard to his abilities. He's quick but not fast, he is SO easily pushed off of pucks, he doesn't go to the front of the net, he's bad defensively.

He's still young so still time to learn and grow but man, this was a BAD year for him. Especially the 2nd half of the season. 2 goals in his final 34 regular season + 7 playoff games?

Jesus, man.

Casey Mittlestadt? This can’t be the solution. That’s another half measured hope and prayer for 2C.

I mean he did just put up 59 points. That's more than Naz! He kills penalties, too!

 

[BaconNater]

I am curious about ROR this summer I wonder if he would be interested in coming back to Denver at a slight discou.. haha just kidding couldn't finish that one

 

[henchman21]

I must say, I am finding it a bit amusing that after Buffalo stayed the course and remained patient with their boy Mittlestadt that some people on here are now banging the table to acquire him meanwhile back at the ranch, there is NO WAY that Newhook could possibly improve after 2 NHL seasons.

(Ice time listed is amongst forwards on the team - kinda obvious but whatevs)

Mittlestadt
2017-18 Buffalo 6GP 1G 4A 5PTS [Only played 6 games]
2018-19 Buffalo 77GP 12G 13A 25PTS [13;27 TOI (10th on team) + 1:46 PPTOI/game (6th on team)]
*2019-20 Buffalo 31GP 4G 5A 9PTS (* +36 games in the AHL) [Sent down to AHL for development]
2020-21 Buffalo 41GP 10G 12A 22PTS [15;53 TOI (6th on team) + 2:13 PPTOI/game (5th on team)]
2021-22 Buffalo 40GP 6G 13A 19PTS [16;07 TOI (5th on team) + 2:31 PPTOI/game (4th on team)]
2022-23 Buffalo 82GP 15G 44A 59PTS [15;44 TOI (5th on team) + 2:06 PPTOI/game (6th on team)]

6 Full NHL Seasons

Newhook
2020-21 Colorado 6GP 0G 3A 3PTS [Only played 6 games]
2021-22 Colorado 71GP 13G 20A 33PTS [13:36 TOI (9th on team) + 1:23 PPTOI (9th on team)]
2022-23 Colorado 82GP 14G 16A 30PTS [13:57 TOI (8th on team) + 1:22 PPTOI/game (7th on team)]

2 Full NHL Seasons

This whole nonsense about Newhook having ZERO value because he wasn't able to fill-in the #2C spot as a 2nd year player is ridiculous. He's a young player that is still learning and progressing just like Mittlestadt was and just like Hayton was and still is.

I'm not doing Hayton's stats but he was Top-4 in forward ice time for both 5-on-5 and PP time. Give that kind of opportunity to Newhook and does he also put up an extra 13 points for a total of 43?? I think so.

My main point is that people have been unfairly dumping on Newhook on here all frikkin' season long because he couldn't replace Kadri while given a modest at best opportunity. JTC seems to get a pass from a lot of people because he was almost able to do it until he started to pout after the trade deadline, putting up a lousy 12 points in his last 30 games in an Avalanche uniform including playoffs.

Will Newhook eventually be able to develop into a Top-6 player? I don't know the answer to that but I am starting to question whether it's going to be possible under Jarred Bednar. We have not been able to develop a good young forward since he's been here and that's not to say it's his fault necessarily, it's just the way it goes.

In any case, with the Avs present core where it's at, they should NOT be in the business to be patient and wait for and maybe even worse, count on development.

@henchman21 -> Don't.

Even though you told me don't, you have to acknowledge some differences here.

Buffalo was a cesspool for development of talent. Nobody succeeded for years, even a generational talent defensemen and maybe the most out of nowhere dominate center in the last 20 years. Once they got a few things right, many players have taken off in their development curves. That isn't the case with the Avs. Lots of players have taken steps here and young.

The 20-21 and 21-22 seasons were injury riddled for Mittelstadt. He'd have flashes of talent, then get injured, and then have to work his way back. Still his pacing there is roughly a 40 point player in that time. Not great, but a step up from Newhook. The old adage was 10 points up for every line... but 40 is still kind of a tweener spot. His work to close out his year in the AHL in 2020 was spectacular. He might have been the best AHL player in the 2nd half of that year. These were all signs it was clicking.

Which leads to this year it clicking. He was phenomenal the last quarter of the season. He didn't look like a ho-hum 60 point guy, he looked like a legit PPG guy and was taking over games. Still he didn't produce a whole season like that. The first part of the season he looked like a 45-50 point guy, albeit on the 3rd line. But the progression just kept getting stronger and stronger for him.

This is a guy that is clearly trending up right now, and he may plateau or fall back.... but he's produced 59 points now. He's taken a step. It isn't about being patient, this is about his results today. He has earned and taken opportunity in Buffalo now. He was a very high impact player this season. He's a natural center with top 6 skill (really higher pure skill set, but he hasn't applied it). He's not the ideal answer for the Avs as guys like Bennett and Lindholm are much, much better options. But in that next tier of guys... Mittelstadt offers a nice combo of skill, contract, and age.

When we are talking Newhook, I'm still in the camp that he's better than he's shown and in time he will round out... but two main things... he simply doesn't have the skill set to be an impactful 2C in the NHL. It is pretty clear to see... he's not a good enough skater and he's not able to create space any other way. As you also said, the Avs just can't be patient here. Another wasted year of trying Newhook at 2C for it to not work, that could crater another season. I'd also add that Newhook's trend isn't great. He's roughly 2 years younger than Mittelstadt... in the numbers you posted, that would be the 20-21 season for Fatty.... where in an injury filled year on a team struggling with development he paced 44 points. Pacing isn't hitting those numbers, but it shows his impact was far higher... and on a team having issues. While Newhook was more productive last season to a fairly high degree. It is only 3 points on paper but in 11 less games. Newhook actually took a step back, not a huge one... but did. That doesn't mean he can't recover and go on to have a good career... I still think he's a legit NHL player and I think he's a great candidate to be a 3rd wheel top 6 wing.

On the developing of forwards... Nuke went from washing out in Dallas, to a premier 2 way top 6 forward. Burkie went from a ~35 point talented, but frustrating player... to an equally frustrating player, but a 60 point version. Compher has steadily become a solid 2 way player. He's not a top 6 guy, but he's a Swiss Army knife. forward in the middle 6. Rantanen's whole development curve has come under Bednar. If we are looking at failures, we are looking at two guys... Jost and Newhook. Both of which share a pretty significant problem... they are undersized players that are not great skaters.

 

[The Moops]

Maybe Newhook develops into a top 6 player in the next 5 years, but our window is now, not in 5 years. We have to make moves that reflect that

 

[avalanche_country]

ROR is still mad Landy got the C over him

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

Sometimes wounded hogs just need put down. There is a legitimate chance the window is closed. I don't think you can give up though until the core ages out. Which going by history is 2 years, 3 at the absolute most.


It is really hard to say right now. Your caveat of 'some support' is a big, big crux of the issue. There just isn't much room for support. The Avs have ~69.5m tied up in 13 players right now (6F, 5D, 2G). Roughly 14m in cap room. To fit in a 2C, 5/6 of a bottom 6, Byram, and an extra defender (since that includes Dermy). If you figure Byram is $4m. You're down to 10m for 7 spots. Those 7 spots were taken by guys making ~12-13m last year (one with retention). Odds are pretty high the support is going to be worse next year.

Which bascially means the Avs have to make a trade to swap salary and move around how much is going where. That move is fairly un-predictable, but odds are it is swapping salary instead of cutting much.


Pretty much zero reason for Toews to go below 7... 7.5 is probably the floor IMO. Legit top pairing guy, 2 50+ points seasons without #1PP time, great defensively, performs in the playoffs... teams will line up to pay him 8-9.

Although the bolded part is absolutely true, the glaring omission in there is Landeskog and Nichushkin.
The depth will be worst next year than this year because the additional cap going to Byram and Newhook will be greater than the cap increase (with EJ going to Mac).
But at the same time it will be better onthe assumption that things will be better on the injury front. If that assumption doesn't hold true, then next year will be very similar to this year, if not worst. But chances are that they will make moves at the deadline to shore it up. I know thatMs what we thought was going to happen this year and it didn't. But the reality is that they can't be big time buyers every year like they did last year. The factthat they didn't this year sucks, but it increases the likelyhood that they will buy next year.

 

[Pokecheque]

ROR as the captain? I think I'll just become a Minny fan or something.

Me too

 

[henchman21]

Although the bolded part is absolutely true, the glaring omission in there is Landeskog and Nichushkin.
The depth will be worst next year than this year because the additional cap going to Byram and Newhook will be greater than the cap increase (with EJ going to Mac).
But at the same time it will be better onthe assumption that things will be better on the injury front. If that assumption doesn't hold true, then next year will be very similar to this year, if not worst. But chances are that they will make moves at the deadline to shore it up. I know thatMs what we thought was going to happen this year and it didn't. But the reality is that they can't be big time buyers every year like they did last year. The factthat they didn't this year sucks, but it increases the likelyhood that they will buy next year.

Injuries happen every year and as players get older, they tend to happen more often. It might not be Landy next year, but it will be somebody. The Avs are consistently one of the more injured teams in the league, it is pretty unlikely the team will be healthy next year.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I must say, I am finding it a bit amusing that after Buffalo stayed the course and remained patient with their boy Mittlestadt that some people on here are now banging the table to acquire him meanwhile back at the ranch, there is NO WAY that Newhook could possibly improve after 2 NHL seasons.

(Ice time listed is amongst forwards on the team - kinda obvious but whatevs)

Mittlestadt
2017-18 Buffalo 6GP 1G 4A 5PTS [Only played 6 games]
2018-19 Buffalo 77GP 12G 13A 25PTS [13;27 TOI (10th on team) + 1:46 PPTOI/game (6th on team)]
*2019-20 Buffalo 31GP 4G 5A 9PTS (* +36 games in the AHL) [Sent down to AHL for development]
2020-21 Buffalo 41GP 10G 12A 22PTS [15;53 TOI (6th on team) + 2:13 PPTOI/game (5th on team)]
2021-22 Buffalo 40GP 6G 13A 19PTS [16;07 TOI (5th on team) + 2:31 PPTOI/game (4th on team)]
2022-23 Buffalo 82GP 15G 44A 59PTS [15;44 TOI (5th on team) + 2:06 PPTOI/game (6th on team)]

6 Full NHL Seasons

Newhook
2020-21 Colorado 6GP 0G 3A 3PTS [Only played 6 games]
2021-22 Colorado 71GP 13G 20A 33PTS [13:36 TOI (9th on team) + 1:23 PPTOI (9th on team)]
2022-23 Colorado 82GP 14G 16A 30PTS [13:57 TOI (8th on team) + 1:22 PPTOI/game (7th on team)]

2 Full NHL Seasons

This whole nonsense about Newhook having ZERO value because he wasn't able to fill-in the #2C spot as a 2nd year player is ridiculous. He's a young player that is still learning and progressing just like Mittlestadt was and just like Hayton was and still is.

I'm not doing Hayton's stats but he was Top-4 in forward ice time for both 5-on-5 and PP time. Give that kind of opportunity to Newhook and does he also put up an extra 13 points for a total of 43?? I think so.

My main point is that people have been unfairly dumping on Newhook on here all frikkin' season long because he couldn't replace Kadri while given a modest at best opportunity. JTC seems to get a pass from a lot of people because he was almost able to do it until he started to pout after the trade deadline, putting up a lousy 12 points in his last 30 games in an Avalanche uniform including playoffs.

Will Newhook eventually be able to develop into a Top-6 player? I don't know the answer to that but I am starting to question whether it's going to be possible under Jarred Bednar. We have not been able to develop a good young forward since he's been here and that's not to say it's his fault necessarily, it's just the way it goes.

In any case, with the Avs present core where it's at, they should NOT be in the business to be patient and wait for and maybe even worse, count on development.

@henchman21 -> Don't.

I mean the context between the two teams couldn’t be any further from each other. Buffalo has/had plenty of time to see if it worked for them. The Avs don’t have the time to let Newhook work his way into being an NHL player.

 

[The Moops]

Although the bolded part is absolutely true, the glaring omission in there is Landeskog and Nichushkin.
The depth will be worst next year than this year because the additional cap going to Byram and Newhook will be greater than the cap increase (with EJ going to Mac).
But at the same time it will be better onthe assumption that things will be better on the injury front. If that assumption doesn't hold true, then next year will be very similar to this year, if not worst. But chances are that they will make moves at the deadline to shore it up. I know thatMs what we thought was going to happen this year and it didn't. But the reality is that they can't be big time buyers every year like they did last year. The factthat they didn't this year sucks, but it increases the likelyhood that they will buy next year.

Nemeth coming back for round 3?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Casey Mittlestadt? This can’t be the solution. That’s another half measured hope and prayer for 2C.

You do know he's coming off a 59 point season right?

 

[ABasin]

You do know he's coming off a 59 point season right?

A few points better than Compher this season.

 

[Pokecheque]

I've liked Haula since his Wild days even though I hated the rest of his team. Thought he'd fit like a glove back then and if he still plays the same, think he'd fit super well now. Just haven't kept up with him enough to know...why has he bounced around so much? I would've thought he'd have gotten a long term contract by now or at least a couple mid-term middle six contracts.

I've always really liked Haula as a player, even when he drove me up the frickin' wall in Minnesota.

He's always been a very good defensive forward, but offense was kinda sporadic. Then he EXPLODED in Vegas their first season. Came back the next year and suffered a very serious knee injury and it sure looks like it took something like three years to recover while he bounced around from Vegas to Carolina to Florida to Boston. During that time he really struggled. In Boston and New Jersey he appears to have found his way again as more of a two-way threat, but that one season in Vegas is a huge outlier.

Even though he's 32 I'd be all for the Avs taking a look--he's scrappy as hell, very good defensively, capable offensively, and is a monster in the faceoff dot. That said, don't know if there's enough cap for him. Other teams will be calling.

Casey Mittlestadt? This can’t be the solution. That’s another half measured hope and prayer for 2C.

What makes you think the Avs are in any position to not take gambles on half-measured hopes and prayers to fill the 2C spot?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

A few points better than Compher this season.

Yes... 7 more points. Over 10% better production. Playing 5 minutes a game less.

 

[Pokecheque]

Nemeth coming back for round 3?

That would piss me off worse than top pairing MacDermid.

 

[henchman21]

Yes... 7 more points. Over 10% better production. Playing 5 minutes a game less.

With worse linemates.

I personally scoffed at grabbing Fatty a couple years ago. Signs have been there, but he just never ever took the step... the difference is this year he took the step. I don't know if it continues and he shouldn't be the top option... but say 4/5/6 down the list, he becomes a pretty attractive option. Skilled, not small, plays in all situations, and most of all he only costs 2.5m against the cap next year and is a RFA after that. Meaning he helps with the cap crunch and likely comes cheaper in the following years (probably in the 5s unless he breaks out).

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I must say, I am finding it a bit amusing that after Buffalo stayed the course and remained patient with their boy Mittlestadt that some people on here are now banging the table to acquire him meanwhile back at the ranch, there is NO WAY that Newhook could possibly improve after 2 NHL seasons.

(Ice time listed is amongst forwards on the team - kinda obvious but whatevs)

Mittlestadt
2017-18 Buffalo 6GP 1G 4A 5PTS [Only played 6 games]
2018-19 Buffalo 77GP 12G 13A 25PTS [13;27 TOI (10th on team) + 1:46 PPTOI/game (6th on team)]
*2019-20 Buffalo 31GP 4G 5A 9PTS (* +36 games in the AHL) [Sent down to AHL for development]
2020-21 Buffalo 41GP 10G 12A 22PTS [15;53 TOI (6th on team) + 2:13 PPTOI/game (5th on team)]
2021-22 Buffalo 40GP 6G 13A 19PTS [16;07 TOI (5th on team) + 2:31 PPTOI/game (4th on team)]
2022-23 Buffalo 82GP 15G 44A 59PTS [15;44 TOI (5th on team) + 2:06 PPTOI/game (6th on team)]

6 Full NHL Seasons

Newhook
2020-21 Colorado 6GP 0G 3A 3PTS [Only played 6 games]
2021-22 Colorado 71GP 13G 20A 33PTS [13:36 TOI (9th on team) + 1:23 PPTOI (9th on team)]
2022-23 Colorado 82GP 14G 16A 30PTS [13:57 TOI (8th on team) + 1:22 PPTOI/game (7th on team)]

2 Full NHL Seasons

This whole nonsense about Newhook having ZERO value because he wasn't able to fill-in the #2C spot as a 2nd year player is ridiculous. He's a young player that is still learning and progressing just like Mittlestadt was and just like Hayton was and still is.

I'm not doing Hayton's stats but he was Top-4 in forward ice time for both 5-on-5 and PP time. Give that kind of opportunity to Newhook and does he also put up an extra 13 points for a total of 43?? I think so.

My main point is that people have been unfairly dumping on Newhook on here all frikkin' season long because he couldn't replace Kadri while given a modest at best opportunity. JTC seems to get a pass from a lot of people because he was almost able to do it until he started to pout after the trade deadline, putting up a lousy 12 points in his last 30 games in an Avalanche uniform including playoffs.

Will Newhook eventually be able to develop into a Top-6 player? I don't know the answer to that but I am starting to question whether it's going to be possible under Jarred Bednar. We have not been able to develop a good young forward since he's been here and that's not to say it's his fault necessarily, it's just the way it goes.

In any case, with the Avs present core where it's at, they should NOT be in the business to be patient and wait for and maybe even worse, count on development.

@henchman21 -> Don't.

The difference is the Avalanche are a playoff team, trying to contend for the cup. Arizona and Buffalo (until very recently) are in extremely different situations competition wise and cap-wise.

I think that's where my distaste for keeping Newhook at that bandied about 2M comes from. If he's willing to take less than that, sure we need depth and as you said it's only been a season and a half of NHL duty for Newy. He's growing. It comes down to how much cap space can a contender set aside for a developing player who really hasn't claimed a role for himself?

 

[Pokecheque]

Not signing off on a Mittelstadt trade unless he does a pullup in front of the trainers.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

With worse linemates.

I personally scoffed at grabbing Fatty a couple years ago. Signs have been there, but he just never ever took the step... the difference is this year he took the step. I don't know if it continues and he shouldn't be the top option... but say 4/5/6 down the list, he becomes a pretty attractive option. Skilled, not small, plays in all situations, and most of all he only costs 2.5m against the cap next year and is a RFA after that. Meaning he helps with the cap crunch and likely comes cheaper in the following years (probably in the 5s unless he breaks out).

Yeah, I dont see why that would be a bad move at all. Ditto Hayton. They're both extremely affordable this year and they're RFAs making them more affordable beyond just next year.

Especially if the Avs could find some sort of swap around Mittelstadt and Girard, that would create an additional $2.75M in cap space off that deal. All of a sudden you have a little wiggle room to actually build some competent bottom 6 depth.

And while I certainly wouldn't expect it from this management group after what they did this year, you always have next years trade deadline to re-evaluate and perhaps go looking for another Center if Mittelstadt isn't working.

 

[henchman21]

Not signing off on a Mittelstadt trade unless he does a pullup in front of the trainers.

 

[henchman21]

Yeah, I dont see why that would be a bad move at all. Ditto Hayton. They're both extremely affordable this year and they're RFAs making them more affordable beyond just next year.

Especially if the Avs could find some sort of swap around Mittelstadt and Girard, that would create an additional $2.75M in cap space off that deal. All of a sudden you have a little wiggle room to actually build some competent bottom 6 depth.

And while I certainly wouldn't expect it from this management group after what they did this year, you always have next years trade deadline to re-evaluate and perhaps go looking for another Center if Mittelstadt isn't working.

Add to this... Buffalo is a place that would love G. Their GM is on record stating he doesn't care about size or physicality on defense... they have a clear need on defense, namely some more offense from the backend. You probably need to take one of their D back and add in a forward for them for balance... but as a hockey trade, it isn't a bad basis.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

ROR is still mad Landy got the C over him

This was never an issue.

It was all about the ridiculous ‘Duchene Cap’ and the Avs wanting to pay ROR like a 3C drafted out of the 2nd round, instead of acknowledging he was already a better player and worth more than Duchene.

 

[dahrougem2]

This was never an issue.

It was all about the ridiculous ‘Duchene Cap’ and the Avs wanting to pay ROR like a 3C drafted out of the 2nd round, instead of acknowledging he was already a better player and worth more than Duchene.

If only people realized O'Reilly is still probably very good friends with MacKinnon/Barrie/Landeskog etc.