Rumor: 2023-2024 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Offseason Edition

[EdAVSfan]

Is Winnipeg even willing to send us an important player like that in division?

I suspect Winnipeg isnt in a mindset that is looking for a rebuilding package but rather a re-tool package. I think that benefits the Avs, but I have no idea how comfortable the Jets are sending a 24 year old center to a strong team in their division who is a direct hurdle for their playoff success/qualification.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Is Winnipeg even willing to send us an important player like that in division?

I suspect Winnipeg isnt in a mindset that is looking for a rebuilding package but rather a re-tool package. I think that benefits the Avs, but I have no idea how comfortable the Jets are sending a 24 year old center to a strong team in their division who is a direct hurdle for their playoff success/qualification.

Since they're greatest motivation is keeping the building full (mostly), would likely be less important.

Imagine Maslow's Heirarchy of Needs. In the division is closer to the top of the pyramid and filling seats is more at the bottom where physiological needs are.

 

[Balthazar]

Winnipeg is Canada's Columbus and have a hard time to keep/attract players. If they can get a decent guy with term they'll value that more than most other places.

If you offer Girard they'll listen.

 

[redacted]

Winnipeg is Canada's Columbus and have a hard time to keep/attract players. If they can get a decent guy with term they'll value that more than most other places.

If you offer Girard they'll listen.

But will they? Since they moved to Winnipeg Enstrom is the only defensemen under 6' they have had play more than 120 games. Clitsome is the only other guy to get 100 games.

I think people really underestimate how strong the bias is against players like G.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I don’t know anything about Dubois’ character but he definitely seems to get a reputation of being a diva around here. If the Avs are interested at least we’ll know they have done some extensive research on the individual himself through all the FO contacts in CBJ.

 

[redacted]

Another factor in Winnipeg is that they are in deep financial trouble right now. Covid absolutely wrecked their organization and now they they are really not good... the ticket sales are floundering. Winnipeg's corporate base that was already small, has quit buying season tickets. Their local fans have quit buying them. The prices have dropped dramatically to try to rebound the numbers... but we are ~2500-3000 less than they were before. The impact on players has been felt too... the training budget has been slashed, upgrades have been paused, in negotiations signing bonuses are fought tooth and nail. They need good players where real cash is cut.

Without playoff runs, they don't stand a chance of surviving there more than 3 years.

 

[shadow1]

Winnipeg is Canada's Columbus and have a hard time to keep/attract players. If they can get a decent guy with term they'll value that more than most other places.

If you offer Girard they'll listen.

But will they? Since they moved to Winnipeg Enstrom is the only defensemen under 6' they have had play more than 120 games. Clitsome is the only other guy to get 100 games.

I think people really underestimate how strong the bias is against players like G.

There's definitely a bias against small defensemen, but I don't think Winnipeg is more biased compared to other teams.

There have only been 66 defensemen under 6' who've played 100+ games since the Jets rejoined the league, so I don't think having two of them is notably low. Plus Winnipeg had one of the more prolific short defensemen for a long time in Toby Enstrom, who Chevy extended to a big deal ($5.75x5) at one point.

 

[redacted]

There's definitely a bias against small defensemen, but I don't think Winnipeg is more biased compared to other teams.

There have only been 66 defensemen under 6' who've played 100+ games since the Jets rejoined the league, so I don't think having two of them is notably low. Plus Winnipeg had one of the more prolific short defensemen for a long time in Toby Enstrom, who Chevy extended to a big deal ($5.75x5) at one point.

Enstrom was already in the org and a known quantity from the Atlanta move. Chevy has never traded for an under 6' defensemen. Clitsome was claimed off waivers. Heinola IIRC was listed at 5'11" at the draft (6'1" listed now) and he's the only top 2 round pick used on an under 6' defensemen. There just isn't much evidence that they don't mind small defensemen. That doesn't mean it will stay that way, but to me, it seems they have a preference.

 

[Balthazar]

Enstrom was already in the org and a known quantity from the Atlanta move. Chevy has never traded for an under 6' defensemen. Clitsome was claimed off waivers. Heinola IIRC was listed at 5'11" at the draft (6'1" listed now) and he's the only top 2 round pick used on an under 6' defensemen. There just isn't much evidence that they don't mind small defensemen. That doesn't mean it will stay that way, but to me, it seems they have a preference.

I think every single team has a preference for bigger players.

Girard makes sense in Winnipeg because he's a top 4 dman, they don't want want to tank, he's not old and he's still signed for 4 years.

I'm sure they'd prefer a 6'3 Girard but if that was the case we'd not offer him in the first place.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Girard makes sense in Winnipeg because of his term. They have only only one D signed beyond 2025. Pionk comes up for a new deal in 2025. Having Girard gives them an option when Pionk's time comes.

 

[redacted]

I think every single team has a preference for bigger players.

Girard makes sense in Winnipeg because he's a top 4 dman, they don't want want to tank, he's not old and he's still signed for 4 years.

I'm sure they'd prefer a 6'3 Girard but if that was the case we'd not offer him in the first place.

I'm 100% sure they'd have him on the roster at the right price, but that isn't what we are really talking about here. We are talking about one of their (if not the) biggest trade chips, they are going to target players they really want not just a guy that has term.

 

[MacKaRtin]

Without playoff runs, they don't stand a chance of surviving there more than 3 years.

Ooof, first I've heard of this. Gotta feel sorry for the fans. Especially if the NHL decides they should relocate to Arizona because it's such a hockey hotbed that the Phoenix metro area can support two teams and consistently sell out two college arenas.

 

[redacted]

To me... here are the teams that don't show much of a bias against smaller defensemen:

Avs: should be clear... drafted smaller defensemen, played them in high roles, and routinely acquire small defensemen
Kings: drafted many small defenseme, played Walker as a smaller defensive first top 4 guy for years, making room for a smaller guy to be in the NHL
Pens: This is mostly about Dubas' record... he's drafted small defensemen and played small defensemen.. but saying that the org has not shied away from small defensemen in the past either
Wild: They have not seemingly had a bias ever on small defensemen (or small players in general). Spurgeon, Hunt, Goli, Addison... their AHL team also has smaller guys and they don't shy away from drafting them
Bruins: Zero issue grabbing guys with size questions. they've played them in roles, they've drafted then and traded for them.
Canucks: Again, drafted, played in roles, and traded for
Blues: same story... they seem to ignore size. Krug, Perunovich

Some teams that show some signs of bias, but have some history with smaller defensemen are Oilers, Sabres, Sens and Flyers. I could probably see elevating Sabres up to the group above.

 

[redacted]

Ooof, first I've heard of this. Gotta feel sorry for the fans. Especially if the NHL decides they should relocate to Arizona because it's such a hockey hotbed that the Phoenix metro area can support two teams and consistently sell out two college arenas.

Ownership basically sent out a 'marketing' message that if they don't sell season tickets the team could move in April. Not a secret their finances are in very rough shape. They have a very wealthy owner, but that doesn't mean they can lose massive amounts of money forever.

 

[S E P H]

Dubois has only been on two teams his entire career and he's wanted out on both of them. That's a 100% success rate.

 

[MacKaRtin]

Dubois has only been on two teams his entire career and he's wanted out on both of them. That's a 100% success rate.

I've left every job I've ever had except my current one. And within a couple years, I'm sure I would have left my current one too.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I'm 100% sure they'd have him on the roster at the right price, but that isn't what we are really talking about here. We are talking about one of their (if not the) biggest trade chips, they are going to target players they really want not just a guy that has term.

So turn Girard into a first rounder and add. Not that hard, every GM knows those things are an automatic 100$ bill.

Dubois has only been on two teams his entire career and he's wanted out on both of them. That's a 100% success rate.

Look at the teams

 

[S E P H]

I've left every job I've ever had except my current one. And within a couple years, I'm sure I would have left my current one too.

I totally understand, being a professional fluffer myself I need to travel and job hop a lot.

Look at the teams

And what about that? Sure they are probably some of the smallest market franchises in the league, but that doesn't mean you need to leave them because they are small franchises...

 

[redacted]

So turn Girard into a first rounder and add. Not that hard, every GM knows those things are an automatic 100$ bill.

Moving small defensemen is harder than you'd think, and along with that, there will be teams willing to give a more preferential set of assets. Why make it more complicated than you have to? Especially with a guy like Chevy that doesn't like complications or too many moving pieces.

I 100% think you can get PLD from Winnipeg with what the Avs have... I just don't think G is the main piece.

 

[Balthazar]

Dubois has only been on two teams his entire career and he's wanted out on both of them. That's a 100% success rate.

Context is important.

Arguably the two least attractive markets in the league and he was asked to commit long term with CBJ when core guys left (Panarin) or wanted out (Jones) and asked the same thing in Winnipeg in the exact same situation (Wheeler, Scheifele, Hellebuyck asking to leave).

 

[S E P H]

Context is important.

Arguably the two least attractive markets in the league and he was asked to commit long term with CBJ when core guys left (Panarin) or wanted out (Jones) and asked the same thing in Winnipeg in the exact same situation (Wheeler, Scheifele, Hellebuyck asking to leave).

Warning: this might be more about geography/culture than hockey related. I understand leaving Winnipeg and Edmonton, but Columbus isn't that bad of an organisation. A lot of history of losing? Sure, but players leaving has given it a bad reputation I reckon. Nash stayed there for more than a decade before moving and that is when the organisation was directed by idiots. Jarmo might not be the best bloke either, but he's gotten them to relevant levels where they signed Gaudreau. If there was ever a problem in Columbus, it is that they went after a ton of players that were soon-to-be UFAs which they had no control over. The only players that ever truly asked for a trade were Carter and Dubois. They lost Jones, Duchene, and Panarin due to UFA status which is the day when top markets always win like New York City, Chicago City, LA City, Montreal City, Toronto City, and the state of Florida. Jones went to Chicago, Panarin went to NYC, and Duchene went to Nashville. All had an appeal due to each player's unique character.

With Dubois, he is big-game hunting just like every major UFA player does in the end as well. Denver, Anaheim, Buffalo, Ottawa, St.Paul, Winnipeg, St. Louis, Edmonton, and Calgary would all lose players to big cities, except if they are a contender. Contender status is what makes players want to stay and why the Avs have not been hit by the same wave that Columbus got hit with. With European players, you gotta understand that New York has a ton of Eastern European immigrants and why Russian players gravitate towards that location. New York, Sacramento/lesser degree LA, and Illinois have the largest Slavic populations in the USA. Whenever you see a Russian or somebody similar move around as a UFA, always pay attention to those three locations. I think Swedes and Finns are less likely to care and why they move around less than the Slavs.

 

[redacted]

Outside of Montreal, I think the 3 teams that are most likely to land PLD are Boston, NYR, and Carolina. Boston has a lot to figure out, but big market, some assets, and a huge lack of centers. Rangers have a lot of pressure to figure things out and have plenty of young NHL assets to use... plus those two trade with each other all the time. Carolina... they have to know that next year is potentially their last best shot at a Cup. PLD solve the most major issue on the makeup up front and Carolina can afford to give up some young NHL talent.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Moving small defensemen is harder than you'd think, and along with that, there will be teams willing to give a more preferential set of assets. Why make it more complicated than you have to? Especially with a guy like Chevy that doesn't like complications or too many moving pieces.

I 100% think you can get PLD from Winnipeg with what the Avs have... I just don't think G is the main piece.

Who is? I'm not moving Toews.

It wouldn't be complicated, the idea is to uncomplicate it if that is the hang up.

Although I'd move three first round picks, one conditional on re-signing plus more assets for PLD without an extension. So, I'm obviously all in on this idea.

Mistake or not, we'd get some of that back if you had to facilitate a sign and trade, and a rental would easily cost the middle ground.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Who is? I'm not moving Toews.

It wouldn't be complicated, the idea is to uncomplicate it if that is the hang up.

Although I'd move three first round picks, one conditional on re-signing plus more assets for PLD without an extension. So, I'm obviously all in on this idea.

Mistake or not, we'd get some of that back if you had to facilitate a sign and trade, and a rental would easily cost the middle ground.

Can't do that.

 

[redacted]

Who is? I'm not moving Toews.

It wouldn't be complicated, the idea is to uncomplicate it if that is the hang up.

Although I'd move three first round picks, one conditional on re-signing plus more assets for PLD without an extension. So, I'm obviously all in on this idea.

Mistake or not, we'd get some of that back if you had to facilitate a sign and trade, and a rental would easily cost the middle ground.

Lehky... they've loved him for a long time. There would have to be another bigger piece or two added as well. Lehky's NTC is a hangup with Winnipeg likely on that list.

Anytime you have a prior or subsequent move with another team, you complicate the deal.

You can't have conditionals on re-signings any more. Winnipeg can't afford as a franchise to dump PLD for picks. They need NHL players who can contribute next season.