Rumor: 2023-2024 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Off-season is in full swing

[Chiarelli]

Kadri getting suspended was a much bigger variable than anyone they would have added at the deadline that year. If he could have avoided suspension the story may have been different and we wouldn’t have to spend the last 3 years beating this subject to death

 

[redacted]

Clearly the Ducks came in with a much better/realistic offer than the 4M number they submitted for arbitration. The 7M is much closer to what Terry was asking than what the Ducks submitted.

Guess the Ducks came to their senses and realized that they were going to have to actually pay for a consistent 60 pts+ player. Probably smart on the Ducks to not let it get to arbitration, Terry would have bolted like ROR the second he could.

Now player is getting a fair contract and isn't pissed off at his team.

Both parties were just playing the normal arbitration game. Nothing unusual

 

[shadow1]

Ultimately that team just wasn't good enough, and a big reason for that was between the pipes. Grubauer was stellar the first two games and then promptly imploded. The goal he gave up against Nick Holden is right up there with Rahim Moore and Joel Quenneville in sports decisions/moments I will never, ever, EVER forgive.

But you absolutely CANNOT just throw the coaches under the bus here, management simply did not go all in. They half-assed it like they did every other deadline (except 2022 of course) when they acquired the washed-up remnants of Carl Soderberg and Patrik Nemeth. In addition to that, this was right around the time Ryan Graves inexplicably got super-panicky every time the puck landed on his stick. The depth wasn't there, the talent wasn't there, the goaltending wasn't there, and the defense was most definitely NOT there.

Maybe Sakic realized the team just wasn't "ready" yet and did not invest fully until the following season. Regardless, they could've had the love child of Toe Blake and Punch Imlach behind the bench and it wouldn't have made any difference.

I agree on Grubauer. His Game 6 highlights - including the Holden goal - were worthy of a blooper reel.

Most fans liked the Nemeth move at the time, including me. It was ultimately a disaster, but the perception at the time was not that the Avalanche were obtaining a corpse. With Soderberg fans were a lot more lukewarm, and he was so far down the depth chart that 4 playoff games was all the action he saw, despite Kadri's lengthy suspension.

I'm not suggesting it wasn't a half-assed deadline. Clearly, it stunk. But I believed at the time the Avalanche would win it all, and in hindsight think the performances of key players was the biggest culprit in their loss, rather than who they did/did not add at the trade deadline. (For reference, the biggest names moved that deadline included Foligno, Hall, Mantha, Palmieri, Savard, along with Bennett and Montour - though the latter two weren't the level they are now).

As for the coaching, Bednar was scrutinized a lot for the Vegas series. Personally, my issue was with personnel management (no pun intended). I know he was in a tough spot due to the Kadri suspension, but the forward lines he was running with were not working, and looked very bizarre on the surface:

Regular	Gm5-6
Landeskog-MacKinnon-Rantanen Saad-Kadri-Burakovsky Nichushkin-Jost-Donskoi O'Connor-Bellemare-Compher	Saad-MacKinnon-Rantanen Landeskog-Compher-Nichushkin Burakovsky-Jost-O'Connor Newhook-Bellemare-Donskoi

 

[nammerus]

Ultimately that team just wasn't good enough, and a big reason for that was between the pipes. Grubauer was stellar the first two games and then promptly imploded. The goal he gave up against Nick Holden is right up there with Rahim Moore and Joel Quenneville in sports decisions/moments I will never, ever, EVER forgive.

But you absolutely CANNOT just throw the coaches under the bus here, management simply did not go all in. They half-assed it like they did every other deadline (except 2022 of course) when they acquired the washed-up remnants of Carl Soderberg and Patrik Nemeth. In addition to that, this was right around the time Ryan Graves inexplicably got super-panicky every time the puck landed on his stick. The depth wasn't there, the talent wasn't there, the goaltending wasn't there, and the defense was most definitely NOT there.

Maybe Sakic realized the team just wasn't "ready" yet and did not invest fully until the following season. Regardless, they could've had the love child of Toe Blake and Punch Imlach behind the bench and it wouldn't have made any difference.

Grubauer was actually amazing the first 3 games, and almost stole game 3. He was sub par the rest of the way, but he’s definitely not the main person to blame. The Avs were absolute destroyed in games 2/3/4 and parts of 6. Like..wings Vs Avs late 2000’s destroyed. It was an embarrassing series all the way round.

 

[Foppa2118]

Personally, I see the 2021 Avalanche as a failure by the coaching/players rather than management.

The trade deadline was notoriously crappy, but Colorado's roster that year was loaded. The team was a minute away from going up 3-0 on Vegas before the bottom fell out, and seemingly no one but Brandon Saad could score a goal for the rest of the series.

I do think Sakic/CMac had one massive screw up that season, though. The Avs traded Ian Cole a couple games into the season, right after EJ was activated off the IR, in anticipation of Byram's arrival. EJ was lost for the season literally 4 games later, and Byram also missed most of the season due to injury. These events ultimately led to the re-acquisition of Nemeth...

Don't you think the second paragraph here make it pretty clear it was the players fault, not management or coaching?

They had a stacked team that year. They didn't need a big deadline.

The reason they lost was because they just weren't experienced enough yet at how to win in the playoffs. Saad alluded to it after he left. They had lessons to learn before they could win it all and that year was the last lesson. Next season they maintained their focus and dominated.

Regarding Cole, he was pretty bad towards the end of his tenure. He wasn't adding anything positive to that team. He was giving up lots of unnecessary scoring chances and the reason EJ was on the IR in the first place was because Cole stupidly cross checked a guy into EJ's knee the previous playoffs. Hard to predict both EJ and Byram would get KO'd like they did after trading Cole.

 

[redacted]

The Grubi hate is a bit much. He had a bad couple games and it included game 6, but he also shined at times. Still he played a role.

I’m surprised that with the Grubi hate for soft goals that people gloss over the stinker that George left in these playoffs.

 

[Metallo]

Yeah, he'd basically be a better Kadri for two years. That's completely possible at least. That dude can be a #1C, he absolutely has the frame and talent.



This is why I sort of was hoping by some miracle they'd pay Boucher what it takes to get him as an assistant. Pipe dream though..

The timing would have been right to make changes to assistants. We need fresh ideas.

 

[Foppa2118]

The Grubauer hate is mostly because of the shit he talked after leaving about how the Avs window had closed. He must have read HF.

Georgiev got some criticsm for the soft goals he let in. Expectations were different for that team though with the injuries and Val gone, and his goals weren't part of a highly disappointing series collapse.

He also didn't demand a big contract afterwards and then leave and talk shit.

 

[The Abusement Park]

The Grubauer hate is mostly because of the shit he talked after leaving about how the Avs window had closed. He must have read HF.

Georgiev got some criticsm for the soft goals he let in. Expectations were different for that team though with the injuries and Val gone, and his goals weren't part of a highly disappointing series collapse.

He also didn't demand a big contract afterwards and then leave and talk shit.

Huh? Georgie let in soft or badly timed goals all through the Seattle series? I mean I guess there were injuries and stuff as well
but his series against Seattle was no better than Grus against Vegas.

 

[Foppa2118]

Huh? Georgie let in soft or badly timed goals all through the Seattle series? I mean I guess there were injuries and stuff as well
but his series against Seattle was no better than Grus against Vegas.

I was one of the main people to bring them up at the time. But they weren't really throughout and they didn't follow the team being a couple minutes away from being up 3-0 in the series and then losing 4 straight.

That was a back and forth series with Seattle playing well and the Avs decimated. Grubie's series they just imploded and gave it away when they should have won. Hence more criticism of the goalie.

Also if IIRC some of those soft Grubie goals were the GWG's or OT goals.

If things played out that way with Georgie and then he asked for a big contract and then left and talked shit, people would talk about him the exact same way they do Grubauer.

 

[Avsboy]

Avs played better than VGK in games 5 and 6 but lost. Gru was bad. Do you remember goal 1 Game 6 there?

 

[sethro109]

The one thing I will never, ever forget about game 6. Was f***ing Graves shooting right into Mark Stone !TWICE! even though he had MacK and Makar open on both sides of him.

 

[Balthazar]

The one thing I will never, ever forget about game 6. Was f***ing Graves shooting right into Mark Stone !TWICE! even though he had MacK and Makar open on both sides of him.

So much stuff happened in this series but ultimately they loss the series when Graves got bullied and humiliated by Reaves at the end of game 1.

From there on the Avs got physically outmatched by Vegas and they couldn't play their game anymore...Gru stole game 2 but that was pretty much it.

They acknowledged it when they went ahead and got MacDermid and Manson the following year.

 

[sethro109]

So much stuff happened in this series but ultimately they loss the series when Graves got bullied and humiliated by Reaves at the end of game 1.

From there on the Avs got physically outmatched by Vegas and they couldn't play their game anymore...Gru stole game 2 but that was pretty much it.

They acknowledged it when they went ahead and got MacDermid and Manson the following year.

I don't disagree with your statement, but when it specifically comes to game 6, that last shift will forever be etched into my brain. I hated Graves and the Nemeth trade that year. So when they were both gone by training camp. I was pretty happy.

 

[Mighty Makar]

I’d like to forget the Vegas series.

 

[myperbixhurts]

And I thought I couldn’t hate this offseason more. I have to read about that Vegas series now.

 

[Foppa2118]

Don't click on the SPOILER below if you're triggered by the Vegas series, but the record needs to be corrected a bit here.

If you notice there's a theme here of the Avs being up in games and then losing. Because of poor play, but also some stoppable goals from Grubauer.

Just like the team did, Grubbie lost his focus in this series, and let in the kind of goals he stopped in the Seattle series.

Spoiler: TRIGGER WARNING

Game 3

These goals weren't awful, but they weren't great either. Avs aren't playing well but then Grubauer loses track of the puck and leaves a quarter of the net open for Karlsson to tap in the puck for the 1-0 goal.

Then the Avs come back to make it 2-1, and are minutes away from a 3-0 series lead, but Grubauer lets Marchessault bank the puck off him, because IMO it looked like he was cheating thinking Marchessault was gonna pass to the slot. Then they score on a deflection right after and win 3-2.



Game 4

Avs are up 1-0 but then Grubauer quits on the play thinking they scored, and leaves the whole net wide open to shoot at and allows Vegas back in the game.

Then he lets Pacioretty score far side from the top of the circle on an unscreened wrist shot to give them a 2-1 lead.

Then he gets beat again 7 hole with no screen on a one timer from the top of the circle to put his team down 3-1.

Then he backs into his own net with the puck to make it 5-1.



Game 5

Another game of not awful but not great goals.

After the Avs are finally dominating after getting dominated for a few games, they go up 2-0, and Burakovsky makes a terrible turnover, then Tuch bats the puck out of the air 7 hole. Terrible turnover but NHL goalies should never let pucks go through them 7 hole, especially in the playoffs.

Then because the Avs can't score it's 2-2 in OT, and after Graves double shot block, Stone has a semi breakaway and scores from the top of the slot. Stone has a great shot and it was a terrible play by Graves, so it's hard to put too much blame on Grubauer for this, but they needed a stop here from the top of the circle and Grubby had a notoriously bad glove hand.



Game 6

Avs go up 1-0 early in game 6, but 45 seconds later Grubauer is staring into the corner when Nick Holden is letting a weak unscreened wrister go from the point, that saps their desperately needed momentum with a tying goal.

Then with the Avs dominating play for the second game in a row, Vegas makes a cross ice pass to Karlson who's wide open, but Grubauer for some reason thinks the pass is going to the middle of the ice where nobody is open, so he stops in the middle of his crease instead of sliding towards the post, and leaves a quarter of the net open to shoot at from the circle. Now they're down 2-1 in an elimination game.

Even the 3-2 goal on the deflection from the circle was stoppable for an NHL goalie in the playoffs. He saw the puck when it was coming towards him, his reaction was just too slow. All he needed to do was move his left skate a little further out but he barely moved it.

 

[SirLoinOfCloth]

And I thought I couldn’t hate this offseason more. I have to read about that Vegas series now.

Arizona played Vegas?

 

[Foppa2118]

And I thought I couldn’t hate this offseason more. I have to read about that Vegas series now.

Did you hear Matthews intends on re-signing with the Leafs instead of Arizona?

 

[NorthernAvsFan]

Chris McFarland waking up everyday with $2M in cap space.

 

[lionsDen]

I’d like to forget the Vegas series.

You must hate that series

 

[myperbixhurts]

Arizona played Vegas?

Did you hear Matthews intends on re-signing with the Leafs instead of Arizona?

 

[shadow1]

Don't you think the second paragraph here make it pretty clear it was the players fault, not management or coaching?

They had a stacked team that year. They didn't need a big deadline.

The reason they lost was because they just weren't experienced enough yet at how to win in the playoffs. Saad alluded to it after he left. They had lessons to learn before they could win it all and that year was the last lesson. Next season they maintained their focus and dominated.

Regarding Cole, he was pretty bad towards the end of his tenure. He wasn't adding anything positive to that team. He was giving up lots of unnecessary scoring chances and the reason EJ was on the IR in the first place was because Cole stupidly cross checked a guy into EJ's knee the previous playoffs. Hard to predict both EJ and Byram would get KO'd like they did after trading Cole.

Yeah I do think it mostly lays at the feet of the players, but I explained my gripe with Bednar in my most recent post. His unusual lines weren't the biggest factor in Colorado's loss, but they didn't help matters.

As for Cole, you're right that he wasn't great the year before (his +21 was somewhat of a mirage). Most fans were happy to see him gone because he could be frustrating, and there was also the thinking that he was too good to sit in the press box every night. I was one of the few detractors, because I was worried about a repeat of 2020 - i.e. injuries leading to Kevin Connauton dressed for Games 4-7 against Dallas. That never came to fruition, but in a vacuum I still don't like the trade... but it would've been a wash if Nemeth wasn't so bad.

 

[Alienblood]

Yeah I do think it mostly lays at the feet of the players, but I explained my gripe with Bednar in my most recent post. His unusual lines weren't the biggest factor in Colorado's loss, but they didn't help matters.

As for Cole, you're right that he wasn't great the year before (his +21 was somewhat of a mirage). Most fans were happy to see him gone because he could be frustrating, and there was also the thinking that he was too good to sit in the press box every night. I was one of the few detractors, because I was worried about a repeat of 2020 - i.e. injuries leading to Kevin Connauton dressed for Games 4-7 against Dallas. That never came to fruition, but in a vacuum I still don't like the trade... but it would've been a wash if Nemeth wasn't so bad.

I think if I remember correctly didn't they have to trade Cole for cap purposes ?

 

[myperbixhurts]

You guys made me remember the Vegas series, I’m gonna make you remember this…….