Rumor: 2023-2024 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Off-season is in full swing

[thedoctor]

775k for Meyers. Surely avs add another player or two, maybe then the stars and knights fans in here will become believers again.

because we can't accrue space under LTIR they may remain quite conservative to keep deadline options open without paying exorbitent cap-clearing prices. I'm sure many would don their hindsight glasses if it didn't work, but it wouldn't be a bad move.

I'd still personally like Pius Suter if he's a ~1m x 1y take a discount to prove himself type guy. Most of the other options don't appeal to me and I'd prefer to give Myers, Foudy, and such a real chance to provide cap value before opting for a trade/signing (signing referring to Kane, primarily).

 

[Foppa2118]

I don't think they are. However I do believe a team like Vegas has far fewer questions than the Avs.

To me the Avs season rests on two huge question marks, RyJo and Drouin. They excel and do their job, we'll be right there. They both flounder and we are kinda screwed and in the same spot as last season where 29, 8 and 96 do all the hard carrying and the other guys do a little here and there.

I wish this wasn't the case, but it kind of is. I hope the gamble pays off and RyJo and Drouin do well.

That's fair.

But if I may, I'd like to remind you of the question marks surrounding Kadri going into the Avs Cup season. Both in terms of being a suspension risk in the playoffs and his actual production.

Also the question marks surrounding an alleged lazy player in Burakovksy before he came to the Avs.

Or the question marks around Val's production after scoring 0 goals the previous season.

Or the question marks around whether Bednar could make adjustments in the playoffs to get past the second round.

Or the question marks on whether Byram would play hockey again.

Or the question marks about how good Makar would be early in his career when people thought he wouldn't be able to replace Barrie's production for years.

All of those guys answered the questions and helped the Avs win the Stanley Cup. Question marks aren't anything new for this team or the fanbase.

 

[henchman21]

injury history does not make a guy eligible for LTIR.

but you know this. you're spurring conversation in the dark days of the offseason without being a troll, I applaud it.

It kinda does… it’s how Weber and Seabrook on permanent ltir.

Not trolling, but more or less I find this whole outrage bizarre. Many teams are doing it including the Avs.

 

[Foppa2118]

The Avs aren't doing the same LTIR trick as other teams.

Landy missed nearly the entire previous season and then had his ligament replaced. There's concern that he may never play hockey again.

Murray could have played in the playoffs last year.

Stone could have played through a sore back the way he had in previous seasons, and countless other players did before him.

Kucherov didn't have to wait until December to have hip surgery, he could have done it sooner, and then come back before the playoffs started.

Conversely, if the Avs were playing games with LTIR the way other teams are, they would have done it last season with Landeskog, but they didn't.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

It kinda does… it’s how Weber and Seabrook on permanent ltir.

Not trolling, but more or less I find this whole outrage bizarre. Many teams are doing it including the Avs.

Yep it's weird. Pretty much all of the cup contenders are doing it, including us.

 

[willy702]

Is there a chance, that as team's private models get more refined and sophisticated that their older versions may become public? I'd very much be interested in seeing the difference between what teams are coming up with and keying in on vs what the big readily available public models do.

The private models include stuff like rookies never deserve trust or top six minutes, guys who can fight are +EV, and of course have a super secret algorithm on how many carbs you can consume and still have a positive Corsi.

Are you sure they add value to their rosterbation process?

 

[Metallo]

Well, isn't that convenient

View attachment 731434

 

[willy702]

Who in the NHL doesn't want LTIR this way? That's the problem with some acting like they were angels by not using it. The players want the higher effective pay that comes from it, the team owners and their fans want to have the best team possible and the owners of most other teams realize when the best players are accommodated the league is better off.

The only contingent that doesn't want it are opposing fans looking for an easier path to wins. The powers that be don't give a damn about that.

 

[ASmileyFace]

Well the main board thread for Murray's LTIR is really entertaining at least.

 

[Bender]

That's fair.

But if I may, I'd like to remind you of the question marks surrounding Kadri going into the Avs Cup season. Both in terms of being a suspension risk in the playoffs and his actual production.

Also the question marks surrounding an alleged lazy player in Burakovksy before he came to the Avs.

Or the question marks around Val's production after scoring 0 goals the previous season.

Or the question marks around whether Bednar could make adjustments in the playoffs to get past the second round.

Or the question marks on whether Byram would play hockey again.

Or the question marks about how good Makar would be early in his career when people thought he wouldn't be able to replace Barrie's production for years.

All of those guys answered the questions and helped the Avs win the Stanley Cup. Question marks aren't anything new for this team or the fanbase.

Or this guy!

 

[Metallo]

The Avs aren't doing the same LTIR trick as other teams.

Landy missed nearly the entire previous season and then had his ligament replaced. There's concern that he may never play hockey again.

Murray could have played in the playoffs last year.

Stone could have played through a sore back the way he had in previous seasons, and countless other players did before him.

Kucherov didn't have to wait until December to have hip surgery, he could have done it sooner, and then come back before the playoffs started.

Conversely, if the Avs were playing games with LTIR the way other teams are, they would have done it last season with Landeskog, but they didn't.

Yeah I don't think we have abused LTIR. I mean, we are bot putting Landy on LTIR because he sucks, we would gladly have him on the roster and performing.

That been said we need to start f***ing abusing LTIR and the CBA.

 

[Balthazar]

Hey Matt, either we buy you out and you lose money or you stay on LTIR all season and collect your whole paycheck.

I take it back, after looking at Capfriendly Murray would have lost 2.67M if the Leafs would have bought him out. That's a lot of money.

I bet Murray called the Leafs to tell them he'd accept to stay the whole year on LTIR if they don't buy him out.

 

[Foppa2118]

View attachment 731437
This guy likes this post...

He must be feeling lonely. May I suggest an app for that?

 

[Metallo]

Who in the NHL doesn't want LTIR this way? That's the problem with some acting like they were angels by not using it. The players want the higher effective pay that comes from it, the team owners and their fans want to have the best team possible and the owners of most other teams realize when the best players are accommodated the league is better off.

The only contingent that doesn't want it are opposing fans looking for an easier path to wins. The powers that be don't give a damn about that.

I think players are getting less of the escrow back if teams spent more on salary because they go over the cap with shenanigans. So all players get screwed by guys being placed on fake LTIR. The higher the salary the higher the impact. On the other hand it gets more players on NHL pay so fringe guys benefit from that.

 

[thedoctor]

Who in the NHL doesn't want LTIR this way? That's the problem with some acting like they were angels by not using it. The players want the higher effective pay that comes from it, the team owners and their fans want to have the best team possible and the owners of most other teams realize when the best players are accommodated the league is better off.

The only contingent that doesn't want it are opposing fans looking for an easier path to wins. The powers that be don't give a damn about that.

There's a lot of complaints with the way LTIR is being used:

- Fans that want competitive balance don't want Stone/Kuch style cap circumvention. This is where the majority of hate should be directed, imo. it's a super easy fix with a tiny additional rule: teams must field a 20 active player lineup in the postseason that is cap compliant. players that put you over can be on the roster, etc., but your actual lineup has to be compliant.

- Murray's situation is different -- this is a team circumventing the penalties of a bad contract by exaggerating how injured a guy is. the team doesn't mind, the NHLPA doesn't mind, the player doesn't mind. what it does do is give the big market teams with surplus income an advantage, which does minorly affect competitive balance. I'm not nearly as pissed about this as I am the Stone/Kuch type crap, but it does still tilt the playing field a bit and I don't love that. I'm surprised the NHL lets this slide, given their previous enforcement of the hard cap and how this is effectively a soft-cap luxury tax ish type thing.

- then there's legit "this guy can't play" type LTIR: Landy, Savard, etc. the original intent was to give teams relief to try to stay competitive when they experienced unexpected long term injury like this. I don't have any issue with this, but it's being exploited in the above ways.

I'm a fan of the playoff cap compliance rule to eliminate the TB/Vegas nonsense and let the big market stuff like Murray slide, because healthy big markets is also good for the league overall. But Landy-type LTIR is a completely different animal, and shouldn't be grouped with the other 2 uses.

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

Yeah this is how I see it.

It really does come down to RyJo. The other pieces can make a small difference between us winning the West(Regular season) or just finishing 2nd in the division sort of thing... But Johansen and his ability is what will ultimately determine whether we're a threat in the West or a wild card level team.

Why would we be a wildcard team if RyJo is just average (with Colton as 3C), when we won the division last year with Compher and Newhook as 2C-3C... We would basically revert back to arguably last year's level, No ?

 

[Foppa2118]

Yeah I don't think we have abused LTIR. I mean, we are bot putting Landy on LTIR because he sucks, we would gladly have him on the roster and performing.

That been said we need to start f***ing abusing LTIR and the CBA.

Yeah they're putting themselves at a disadvantage if other teams are abusing it and the Avs aren't. It's kind of like not working the refs against a Jon Cooper team. They missed their chance to abuse LTIR last year.

I think the NHL should find a way to close the loophole properly, but if they don't that's fine, other teams just need to take advantage of it too. Which would be a bit of a circus but at least it'd be fair.

You can't have an unfair playing field where 1 or 2 teams a year find a cheap way to get an extra $5M+ in cap space essentially. And it's always coincidentally (or not) the top contenders getting the extra cap space.

That's the whole reason the cap was instituted in the first place, so the big market teams couldn't just outspend the other teams to build a competitive roster.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Why would we be a wildcard team if RyJo is just average (with Colton as 3C), when we won the division last year with Compher and Newhook as 2C-3C... We would basically revert back to arguably last year's level, No ?

Compher is significantly better then RyJo of the last 2-3 years, would be part of why.

Plus other teams have gotten better while we get worse(Assuming RyJo isn't good).

I should clarify I don't necessarily mean like WC1 or WC2 exactly... Just that they won't be competing for the top of the division and will more towards the Wildcard race. I dont know if they finish worse then 3rd in the division unless things go completely off the rails quite honestly.

 

[Gumballhead]

Compher is significantly better than RyJo of the last 2-3 years, would be part of why.

What.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

What.

Yes? It's not even close really.

There's a reason we got Johansen for free with a full 50% salary retention for 2 more years.

Nashville is literally paying him $8M not to play for them anymore.

 

[sethro109]

Yes? It's not even close really.

He had 63 points in 79 games during the 2021-22 season. That's more than Compher put up with Mikko as his linemate.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

He had 63 points in 79 games during the 2021-22 season. That's more than Compher put up with Mikko as his linemate.

Riding a 22% shooting percentage and some obvious luck that wasn't sustainable.

Besides that one outlier of a year, Compher has absolutely been better.

But seriously, we don't need to get into this. I'm so tired of talking about Compher with you in particular at this point. He's not even on the team anymore lol.

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

That's fair.

But if I may, I'd like to remind you of the question marks surrounding Kadri going into the Avs Cup season. Both in terms of being a suspension risk in the playoffs and his actual production.

Also the question marks surrounding an alleged lazy player in Burakovksy before he came to the Avs.

Or the question marks around Val's production after scoring 0 goals the previous season.

Or the question marks around whether Bednar could make adjustments in the playoffs to get past the second round.

Or the question marks on whether Byram would play hockey again.

Or the question marks about how good Makar would be early in his career when people thought he wouldn't be able to replace Barrie's production for years.

All of those guys answered the questions and helped the Avs win the Stanley Cup. Question marks aren't anything new for this team or the fanbase.

There were question marks whether Kadri could not get himself suspended. Whether Graves could play top 3 minutes. Whether Nemeth and Soda at the deadline would add solid depth. Whether Gru could be a guy you win the cup with. Whether JTC or Jost could be a middle 6C.

Those questions got answered too.

Teams only get a few years of their prime window and salaries are quickly going up for the Avs core.

 

[Foppa2118]

There were question marks whether Kadri could not get himself suspended. Whether Graves could play top 3 minutes. Whether Nemeth and Soda at the deadline would add solid depth. Whether Gru could be a guy you win the cup with. Whether JTC or Jost could be a middle 6C.

Those questions got answered too.

Teams only get a few years of their prime window and salaries are quickly going up for the Avs core.

JTC was the 2C when they won the Cup. Kadri missed a round and a half, then came back and played wing with one hand.

Kadi didn't get suspended when they won the Cup.

Nemeth and Soda were bottom pair and bottom six players. Teams win with players like that underperofmring all the time. It's not the same as the question marks and concerns mentioned for impact players.

The same question you mentioned about Grubauer, were asked even more so of Kuemper, who did win the Cup. They most likely would have won with Grubauer too if they kept him.

You would have a point if I was contesting that the Avs get these answers right every single time, but it should be obvious that wasn't what I was saying.

I was saying the Avs have gotten a fair amount of these question right, especially in recent years. More than most teams get right, and some of them have been very similar to the questions, and situations surrounding these new additions.

 

[MacKaRant]

I am not saying he's fully healthy to begin with, but there is an absolute problem from either the health staff this prior season allowing him to dress or the front office staff this season making sure he's injured enough to miss the entire year. I don't really see how there can be some grey in between all of this.

Pretty sure Treliving hired the same guy that Tonya Harding did to make sure the issue was solved