Post-Game Talk: 2023-2024 Leafs Roster/Changes/Turnovers & Replacement(s)

[Nineteen67]

Johnston said MLSE expected clarity by Wednesday (today) from Dubas so I think Shanahan will speak soon after that clarity. My bet would be that Shanahan will talk to the media by Friday but I could see it being pushed into next week depending on a few things.

That makes sense. They need every minute of the off season.

 

[deprw]

Not even close to enough talent to win. They were outplayed in 8 of 11 playoff games.

After 5 yrs they still need 4 D, one has to be a #1a or 1b
The probably need a goalie, but I’d give Woll a shot
They need two top 2 wingers that play a different style than the forwards they have now. Knies might be one.
Theyprobably need

If you watched the playoffs you could see they couldnt fill out a consistent lineup because they are so poorly built.

Last year we were way better against Tampa, so we have more capacity. Last year we won 5v5, but lost the series and this year it went other way around. This roster is still juggernaut in next years league, but only on paper and on regular season environment.

Question is that do we throw that year completely away or do we try to win. It might be 5-10 years if we retool, that we have that good of a chance. You could argue that Carolina shouldn't be this competitive, so it's always bit open and parity is huge.

The problem is that can this core do more with better coaching or are they "broken". I don't usually believe that people cannot improve and mature in right circumstances.

 

[ryno23]

I truly believe under a new coach this core with this supporting cast can achieve great things. Every playoff series the Leafs lose the same way.

Offensively, the Leafs have been stymied by a neutral zone trap going back to Columbus, and when they do get in the offensive zone they can't get into the slot/middle of the ice. This makes the Leafs more susceptible to getting "goalied" as they so often do and we end up taking a lot of perimeter shots. The Leafs offensive cliff dive every playoffs is less of a personnel problem than it is a tactical one.

Defensively, the Leafs get scored on in transition and off the rush all the time. It's our primary downfall in the playoffs. In our four previous playoff series losses:

• 2023 80% of Florida's goals came on the rush.
• 2022 Tampa won game 6 via transition and game 7 with 2 rush goals.
• 2021 Montreal scored 1 goal off the cycle, the rest were special teams (3) or in transition.
• 2020 Columbus came back from down 3-0 with 3 goals coming in transition and they won Game 5 off 2 goals in transition

Now there are two constants on this team since 2020, Sheldon Keefe and the Core Five. The supporting cast over the years has changed so much and has had so many different strengths and weaknesses that it's difficult to blame the surrounding players for these continued exploitations. Blaming the core is more than fair given they're the ones actually on the ice. However, no trade or FA signing or prospect graduation matters until the knucklehead behind the bench is switched out.

Given all the evidence it's clear the Leafs main downfall in the playoffs is strategy moreso than a lack of talent or grit or speed or heart or whatever. When we've seen the Leafs fall victim to the same tactics over and over and over and over again, it says to me we've got a coach with absolutely zero answers and who's too stubborn to change up his game plan when facing adversity.

With all of this plus Keefe's inability to develop young talent at this level it's clear that it's time to move on and it's time for a new voice behind the bench. Leafs need a coach who's far more capable of adapting on the fly and who can employ a game plan that makes the opposition uncomfortable, rather than always reacting.

And to be clear, I'm not 100% against trading a core piece, but I do think that it wouldn't be the end of the world if they ran it back with the same core players. Again, no roster change matters until a new coach is behind the bench.

This is pretty much the best post and analysis of what is wrong with the Leafs. The talent is there, depth is there now but it really is coaching and getting the most out of these players.

 

[Dynamite Kid]

So, regular season success outweighs playoff failures ???

Marner has not made much of an impact on our Leafs in the playoffs !!!

I'd rather have a PPG player that also maintains a PPG in the playoffs !!!

Marner needs to go to fix our cap imbalance !!!

JMHO !!!

I don't see a Championship ring on any other LEAF, Sundin included, since 1967. Nobody has had playoff success since then. Marner is currently sixth in playoff points this year. 14 Points in 11 games

Sundin also wasn't terrible in the playoffs in fact was dominant.

Marner is currently sixth in playoff points this year. 14 Points in 11 games

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Keefe still hasn't been fired?! What's the hold up

 

[Leaf Rocket]

I truly believe under a new coach this core with this supporting cast can achieve great things. Every playoff series the Leafs lose the same way.

Offensively, the Leafs have been stymied by a neutral zone trap going back to Columbus, and when they do get in the offensive zone they can't get into the slot/middle of the ice. This makes the Leafs more susceptible to getting "goalied" as they so often do and we end up taking a lot of perimeter shots. The Leafs offensive cliff dive every playoffs is less of a personnel problem than it is a tactical one.

Defensively, the Leafs get scored on in transition and off the rush all the time. It's our primary downfall in the playoffs. In our four previous playoff series losses:

• 2023 80% of Florida's goals came on the rush.
• 2022 Tampa won game 6 via transition and game 7 with 2 rush goals.
• 2021 Montreal scored 1 goal off the cycle, the rest were special teams (3) or in transition.
• 2020 Columbus came back from down 3-0 with 3 goals coming in transition and they won Game 5 off 2 goals in transition

Now there are two constants on this team since 2020, Sheldon Keefe and the Core Five. The supporting cast over the years has changed so much and has had so many different strengths and weaknesses that it's difficult to blame the surrounding players for these continued exploitations. Blaming the core is more than fair given they're the ones actually on the ice. However, no trade or FA signing or prospect graduation matters until the knucklehead behind the bench is switched out.

Given all the evidence it's clear the Leafs main downfall in the playoffs is strategy moreso than a lack of talent or grit or speed or heart or whatever. When we've seen the Leafs fall victim to the same tactics over and over and over and over again, it says to me we've got a coach with absolutely zero answers and who's too stubborn to change up his game plan when facing adversity.

With all of this plus Keefe's inability to develop young talent at this level it's clear that it's time to move on and it's time for a new voice behind the bench. Leafs need a coach who's far more capable of adapting on the fly and who can employ a game plan that makes the opposition uncomfortable, rather than always reacting.

And to be clear, I'm not 100% against trading a core piece, but I do think that it wouldn't be the end of the world if they ran it back with the same core players. Again, no roster change matters until a new coach is behind the bench.

You also wrote way more concise than me too damn you...

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Keefe’s Leafs record as the home team in the playoffs is abysmal. 1-2 in 2020, 1-3 in 2021, 2-2 in 2022, and 1-5 in 2023. An overall record of 5-12 at home in the postseason. Yes, home ice isn’t what it used to be but for Christ’s sake you can’t be 7 games under .500 when you’ve got the last change and choice of matchups.

 

[Gallagbi]

I truly believe under a new coach this core with this supporting cast can achieve great things. Every playoff series the Leafs lose the same way.

Offensively, the Leafs have been stymied by a neutral zone trap going back to Columbus, and when they do get in the offensive zone they can't get into the slot/middle of the ice. This makes the Leafs more susceptible to getting "goalied" as they so often do and we end up taking a lot of perimeter shots. The Leafs offensive cliff dive every playoffs is less of a personnel problem than it is a tactical one.

Defensively, the Leafs get scored on in transition and off the rush all the time. It's our primary downfall in the playoffs. In our four previous playoff series losses:

• 2023 80% of Florida's goals came on the rush.
• 2022 Tampa won game 6 via transition and game 7 with 2 rush goals.
• 2021 Montreal scored 1 goal off the cycle, the rest were special teams (3) or in transition.
• 2020 Columbus came back from down 3-0 with 3 goals coming in transition and they won Game 5 off 2 goals in transition

Now there are two constants on this team since 2020, Sheldon Keefe and the Core Five. The supporting cast over the years has changed so much and has had so many different strengths and weaknesses that it's difficult to blame the surrounding players for these continued exploitations. Blaming the core is more than fair given they're the ones actually on the ice. However, no trade or FA signing or prospect graduation matters until the knucklehead behind the bench is switched out.

Given all the evidence it's clear the Leafs main downfall in the playoffs is strategy moreso than a lack of talent or grit or speed or heart or whatever. When we've seen the Leafs fall victim to the same tactics over and over and over and over again, it says to me we've got a coach with absolutely zero answers and who's too stubborn to change up his game plan when facing adversity.

With all of this plus Keefe's inability to develop young talent at this level it's clear that it's time to move on and it's time for a new voice behind the bench. Leafs need a coach who's far more capable of adapting on the fly and who can employ a game plan that makes the opposition uncomfortable, rather than always reacting.

And to be clear, I'm not 100% against trading a core piece, but I do think that it wouldn't be the end of the world if they ran it back with the same core players. Again, no roster change matters until a new coach is behind the bench.

One struggle here is the counter/transitions happen in so many ways. Its certainly bit us time after time, but it doesnt seem to be a singular issue. Its not a risky pinch or over passing consistently. Its been caused in so many ways.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

One struggle here is the counter/transitions happen in so many ways. Its certainly bit us time after time, but it doesnt seem to be a singular issue. Its not a risky pinch or over passing consistently. Its been caused in so many ways.

One of the biggest takeaways I believe is also in the finer details. It plays such a crucial part, it is very visible we need to tighten things up, we have skill no doubt but in the moments where it is dead if we don't buckle down for those tiny details...it almost certainly comes back to bite us in the ass too.

 

[Just Rude]

Keefe’s Leafs record as the home team in the playoffs is abysmal. 1-2 in 2020, 1-3 in 2021, 2-2 in 2022, and 1-5 in 2023. An overall record of 5-12 at home in the postseason. Yes, home ice isn’t what it used to be but for Christ’s sake you can’t be 7 games under .500 when you’ve got the last change and choice of matchups.

To hammer home this point even more, they were 27-8-6 at home in the regular season - third best in the league.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Playoff hockey >>>>> Regular season hockey .. 2 different games .. players skate harder and faster .. players are much more physical to win puck battles .. refs let a lot more go because it is such a different game .. STATS used in regular season hockey mean nothing about playoff performance .. team roster construction needs to be enough skill to make playoffs but also look to more important issues for playoff hokey .. Dubie is learning on da job (never send a boy to do a mans job) .. Keefer is learning on da job .. Shanny is just not that bright which is what really scares me as he never did learn much but he was always fearless and loyal .. Shanny needs to bring more of himself to this team .. Dubie is not his best fit .. Keefer can do it but i think he needs to go too .. i think Dubie will stay with team in some capacity due to family desires to live where they just moved too

 

[Clark4Ever]

That’s a legit WC contender

Which is pretty good considering that it doesn't include any UFA acquisitions or re-signed RFAs

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

One struggle here is the counter/transitions happen in so many ways. Its certainly bit us time after time, but it doesnt seem to be a singular issue. Its not a risky pinch or over passing consistently. Its been caused in so many ways.

It’s so bizarre, and it caused by everyone. Mr. Clutch ROR and Steady Schenn had a brutal giveaways against Florida that nearly led to rush goals when neither guy pulled anything like that all regular season or against Tampa. Is Florida really that good at creating turnovers or are these guys coached to play a system that makes the team more susceptible to counterattacks?

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Keefe’s Leafs record as the home team in the playoffs is abysmal. 1-2 in 2020, 1-3 in 2021, 2-2 in 2022, and 1-5 in 2023. An overall record of 5-12 at home in the postseason. Yes, home ice isn’t what it used to be but for Christ’s sake you can’t be 7 games under .500 when you’ve got the last change and choice of matchups.

That is truly awful.

 

[notDatsyuk]

If we keep the core 4 and run it back under a new coach, this is our starting point before signing UFAs/resigning RFAs:

Knies-Matthews-Marner
Robertson-Tavares-Nylander
Jarnkrok-Holmberg-Lafferty
McMann-Steeves-XXXX

Rielly-Brodie
McCabe-Liljegren
XXXX-Timmins

Woll
Murray

Definitely some holes to fill in the starting lineup and for depth positions, but I think we're in a better position than in recent years heading into the off season.

Same four in the same positions and pairings as hasn't worked, especially in the playoffs, for several years.

Except for Knies and Lafferty and maybe McCabe, this lineup is worse than what we started last year with.

 

[nuck]

You’d be fine with that and you’d want to re-sign Kerfoot? That dude is one of the worst playoff performers I’ve ever seen, totally inconsequential aside from one lucky tip in OT

You missed the joke. Thats this years lineup

 

[notDatsyuk]

That’s a legit WC contender

On the positive side, two of the four teams in the Conference Finals are WC teams.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

You missed the joke. Thats this years lineup

On the positive side, two of the four teams in the Conference Finals are WC teams.

The parity is fun... But it is isn't exactly the best to grow the business of the game tbh. I feel like that's where the other major leagues have it well done and prepared.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Keefe’s Leafs record as the home team in the playoffs is abysmal. 1-2 in 2020, 1-3 in 2021, 2-2 in 2022, and 1-5 in 2023. An overall record of 5-12 at home in the postseason. Yes, home ice isn’t what it used to be but for Christ’s sake you can’t be 7 games under .500 when you’ve got the last change and choice of matchups.

Babcock wasn't much different either, I remember preferring being on the road since he wouldn't obsessively match lines as much to our detriment.

You honestly might have to go back to Pat Quinn to find a time when it really felt like the Leafs had the coaching edge in the playoffs.

 

[Trapper]

Babcock wasn't much different either, I remember preferring being on the road since he wouldn't obsessively match lines as much to our detriment.

You honestly might have to go back to Pat Quinn to find a time when it really felt like the Leafs had the coaching edge in the playoffs.

Pat Burns/Pat Quinn.
Those are the last two I’d put in the A tier.

 

[IPS]

It's not even a debate that Matthews is an inferior player to Mack but here we are gonna probably pay him $2M+ more just to be a non-competing playoff failure

Oh Leafs, just a joke that keeps getting sadder.

 

[Gallagbi]

One of the biggest takeaways I believe is also in the finer details. It plays such a crucial part, it is very visible we need to tighten things up, we have skill no doubt but in the moments where it is dead if we don't buckle down for those tiny details...it almost certainly comes back to bite us in the ass too.

Honestly its been as much about conversion. Every shot is from a mistake and we simply didnt convert on opportunities.

Game 5 is a great example, especially OT. Jarn beats Verhaege for a prime rush chance, they turn the puck over and we find Matthews in the slot uncovered (he mishandled it). Later in the period Vergaege turns it over at the line and we find Matthews below their D uncovered. Laff also gets a rush chance followes by a Kerfoot rebound after a blocked shot high in the zone. Theres the Tavares tip and Tavares backhand chance as well, which you want better coverage on the Panthers.

It’s so bizarre, and it caused by everyone. Mr. Clutch ROR and Steady Schenn had a brutal giveaways against Florida that nearly led to rush goals when neither guy pulled anything like that all regular season or against Tampa. Is Florida really that good at creating turnovers or are these guys coached to play a system that makes the team more susceptible to counterattacks?

I do wonder how much is evaluating the results vs the process on it, especially with TB and CLB scoring their share of tips/rebounds

 

[Nineteen67]

On the positive side, two of the four teams in the Conference Finals are WC teams.

just 1. And they had bad start to the season but pretty good 2023.

 

[stickty111]

I don't see a Championship ring on any other LEAF, Sundin included, since 1967. Nobody has had playoff success since then. Marner is currently sixth in playoff points this year. 14 Points in 11 games


Marner is currently sixth in playoff points this year. 14 Points in 11 games

Some of those points were meaningless. The points don't tell the actual story. The eye test showed he wasn't very good.

 

[Gallagbi]

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