Post-Game Talk: 2023-2024 Leafs Roster/Changes/Turnovers & Replacement(s)

[Nineteen67]

I can't believe we're in this situation - they didn't want to re-sign Dubas to an extension last summer, and now another early playoff exit, and now they do? Especially if Dubas is feeling the pressure now?!! MAJOR decisions have to be made, and we want Dubas back to make them!? Unreal


Mitch will then want the same

It’s very typical for this organization. They thought Lou said, “If you have time, waste it“

 

[Nineteen67]

He'll get paid from it. Anyone would. This isn't a Matthews thing, hand that resume to anyone negotiating a contract and there's a pretty good case for this can be the highest paid player in the league for a couple years.

Then they should trade him. He tries hard enough in the playoffs, but it’s not desire that let’s him down, it’s ability.

 

[rielledup]

Everyone talking about our forwards but doesn't our d need a big overhaul? It seems like Reilly is the only d we have that you can be confident will be a good top 4 d next year. Bodie is 34 and looks like his best days are behind him. Gio looked like he was on his last legs at the end of the year. I don't think McCabe showed that he's a good top 4 dman. Schenn ended up playing a lot but he was never supposed to be a top 4 dman and I wouldn't count on that next year if he stays.

 

[Gallagbi]

Everyone talking about our forwards but doesn't our d need a big overhaul? It seems like Reilly is the only d we have that you can be confident will be a good top 4 d next year. Bodie is 34 and looks like his best days are behind him. Gio looked like he was on his last legs at the end of the year. I don't think McCabe showed that he's a good top 4 dman. Schenn ended up playing a lot but he was never supposed to be a top 4 dman and I wouldn't count on that next year if he stays.

Id like to move on from Brodie and bring in a legit top 3 guy, but even aside from that I think youre hoping Lilj and Timmins can be regulars while Gio/Schenn handle 3rd pair minutes. Even if those arent together as a pairing.

 

[GQS]

Everyone talking about our forwards but doesn't our d need a big overhaul? It seems like Reilly is the only d we have that you can be confident will be a good top 4 d next year. Bodie is 34 and looks like his best days are behind him. Gio looked like he was on his last legs at the end of the year. I don't think McCabe showed that he's a good top 4 dman. Schenn ended up playing a lot but he was never supposed to be a top 4 dman and I wouldn't count on that next year if he stays.

I think forwards is the bigger priority when they couldn't score more than 2 goals the entire Florida series and 4/5 games were one goal games. That's the difference between losing in 5 games and being up in the series and even winning it. Also the Leafs scored 3 goals or more only 4/11 games in the playoffs and that includes the 7-2 blowout win against Tampa in game 2 otherwise their numbers would look even worse. As much as we talk about defense and goaltending you can't win when you're only able to score more than 2 goals 4 games out of 11.

On paper this team should be killing it offensively, but on the ice they struggled to score the entire playoffs and I'd argue that was the bigger reason that they got knocked out than defense and goaltending. Look at the Stars and Knights. Both those teams gave up way more goals than the Leafs did and yet both are moving on because their offense outscored their mistakes.

As for defense if Schenn is willing to come back relatively cheap, I'd re-sign him and let him play more with Rielly and see how it goes. They looked like the best pairing in the playoffs and maybe Schenn was part of the reason why Rielly looked so good so why not keep it going and see if it was a fluke or not? As for the rest perhaps its time to give Liljegren consistent 2nd pairing minutes and see how it goes.

Rielly/Schenn
Brodie/Liljegren
McCabe/Timmins
Gio

 

[mydnyte]

I think forwards is the bigger priority when they couldn't score more than 2 goals the entire Florida series and 4/5 games were one goal games. That's the difference between losing in 5 games and being up in the series and even winning it. Also the Leafs scored 3 goals or more only 4/11 games in the playoffs and that includes the 7-2 blowout win against Tampa in game 2 otherwise their numbers would look even worse. As much as we talk about defense and goaltending you can't win when you're only able to score more than 2 goals 4 games out of 11.

On paper this team should be killing it offensively, but on the ice they struggled to score the entire playoffs and I'd argue that was the bigger reason that they got knocked out than defense and goaltending. Look at the Stars and Knights. Both those teams gave up way more goals than the Leafs did and yet both are moving on because their offense outscored their mistakes.

As for defense if Schenn is willing to come back relatively cheap, I'd re-sign him and let him play more with Rielly and see how it goes. They looked like the best pairing in the playoffs and maybe Schenn was part of the reason why Rielly looked so good so why not keep it going and see if it was a fluke or not? As for the rest perhaps its time to give Liljegren consistent 2nd pairing minutes and see how it goes.

Rielly/Schenn
Brodie/Liljegren
McCabe/Timmins
Gio

if you have a better defense you score more goals ...we got trapped in our own zone a ton of times because clowns like Holl kepts trapping the puck against the boards (then losing it) or just couldnt clear the zone.
Our D is too weak, and just can win a puck battle, or do something as simple as flip the puck out, so, 1/2 of Matthews shifts were chasing the puck on a down low cycle because our D was too weak to break it.
A solid Defense enhances offense.
look at Carolina, other than Aho, they dont really have any 'offense' their top 2 forwards are hurt, but, because they have a great defense and dont get stuck in their own end for extended periods as often as us for example, they score a bunch.
transition = offense
good defense = transition
weak defense = golf

 

[Community]

Say what??? Keefe is a good coach? Either you know very little about hockey, are related to him.or, you jest... he should have NEVER been hired....or at least jettisoned 2 years ago. He's BRUTAL....

I think it's ridiculous to state Keefe isn't a good coach to be honest. You don't have the consistent regular season success we have without a fairly good system for our team to play in.

I think the real debate is whether he's the wrong coach for our team or his system doesn't work as well in the playoffs.

However, you can't argue his regular season success. I know Leaf fans, for good reason, don't care about regular season success, but it is still a very important part of a team's season. Florida was extremely close to not making the playoffs (one more loss and they might be looking at more big trades). A month or so ago and people were hating on Paul Maurice and now everybody's praising him.

The Leafs and winning easily should never be used together.

Can, not will or should.

We all know this team is skilled enough that they should be going deeper. That's why we're frustrated... not because our team isn't talented/skilled enough, but because it is and they've routinely underperformed in the playoffs.

 

[geo25]

I think it's ridiculous to state Keefe isn't a good coach to be honest. You don't have the consistent regular season success we have without a fairly good system for our team to play in.

I think the real debate is whether he's the wrong coach for our team or his system doesn't work as well in the playoffs.

However, you can't argue his regular season success. I know Leaf fans, for good reason, don't care about regular season success, but it is still a very important part of a team's season. Florida was extremely close to not making the playoffs (one more loss and they might be looking at more big trades). A month or so ago and people were hating on Paul Maurice and now everybody's praising him.


Can, not will or should.

We all know this team is skilled enough that they should be going deeper. That's why we're frustrated... not because our team isn't talented/skilled enough, but because it is and they've routinely underperformed in the playoffs.

Keefe was great for the Marlies. He may become a very good NHL coach one day but thats not the type of learn on the job coach we need now. We beed a savvy, proven winner...preferably someone who has won a Cup or more and knows exactly what it takes and the kinds of players he needs to get us there. This should have been Dubas's 1st move if he was serious....instead nepotism was more important....

 

[Community]

Not even close to enough talent to win. They were outplayed in 8 of 11 playoff games.

After 5 yrs they still need 4 D, one has to be a #1a or 1b
The probably need a goalie, but I’d give Woll a shot
They need two top 2 wingers that play a different style than the forwards they have now. Knies might be one.
Theyprobably need

If you watched the playoffs you could see they couldnt fill out a consistent lineup because they are so poorly built.

Rielly was one of the top defensemen in the entire playoffs and you think we still need a 1a or 1b?

None of the remaining teams have more talented forwards than ours from this year and you think we need 2 more top forwards? What team in the league besides Edmonton (who we shouldn't emulate) have more offensive talent than the Leafs?

What all remaining teams do have is a great team defense/structure that compliments their players (For example, Florida utilized a very strong/fast forecheck to compliment their agile & physical forwards). Figure out how to maximize our overall game by tailoring it in a way that emphasizes our stars skillsets. That doesn't mean just going full out offense, but figuring out how to use our strengths to our advantage and minimize mistakes.

For example, one issue this year in the playoffs was poorly timed pinches by our defensemen other than Rielly. Mostly because these players were too slow to get back into the play if they put themselves out of position. Also, trying to move the puck out of our d-zone was putrid in games 1-2 or 3.

 

[GQS]

if you have a better defense you score more goals ...we got trapped in our own zone a ton of times because clowns like Holl kepts trapping the puck against the boards (then losing it) or just couldnt clear the zone.
Our D is too weak, and just can win a puck battle, or do something as simple as flip the puck out, so, 1/2 of Matthews shifts were chasing the puck on a down low cycle because our D was too weak to break it.
A solid Defense enhances offense.
look at Carolina, other than Aho, they dont really have any 'offense' their top 2 forwards are hurt, but, because they have a great defense and dont get stuck in their own end for extended periods as often as us for example, they score a bunch.
transition = offense
good defense = transition
weak defense = golf

Against Tampa I would agree that they played us hard and gave up relative few good scoring chances. Against Florida I would disagree when the Panthers gave up a good amount of good scoring chances to the Leafs and to me every game looked winnable compared to almost every game against Tampa. The difference is that the Leafs were able to capitalize on their chances against Tampa and they weren't able to do the same against Florida despite having more good scoring chances.

Also Rielly and Liljegren are good puck movers and Timmins looked decent too from what I remember. If Schenn stays then he along with McCabe do provide some toughness to win those hard puck battles. Leafs are lacking good finishers who can score when given a good opportunity. Nylander seems to be the only guy on the team that has game breaking abilities where he can take the puck up the ice and score on his own with a pretty finish. Leafs need another guy or two with speed and good hands like that.

 

[Community]

Keefe was great for the Marlies. He may become a very good NHL coach one day but thats not the type of learn on the job coach we need now. We beed a savvy, proven winner...preferably someone who has won a Cup or more and knows exactly what it takes and the kinds of players he needs to get us there. This should have been Dubas's 1st move if he was serious....instead nepotism was more important....

I'm fully on board with getting a new coach. Just think people are letting the recent disappointment cloud their judgement. He's a good coach overall.

 

[3blizzard4]

I think the NHLPA and Matthews are working hand in hand to push the contracts of players to new highs.

I think they are looking at the silly NBA giant contracts handed out to bench players making 15-20 million and they are saying our stars should making more than that.

They are using Matthews as the front runner to push the envelope.

 

[Nineteen67]

Rielly was one of the top defensemen in the entire playoffs and you think we still need a 1a or 1b?

None of the remaining teams have more talented forwards than ours from this year and you think we need 2 more top forwards? What team in the league besides Edmonton (who we shouldn't emulate) have more offensive talent than the Leafs?

What all remaining teams do have is a great team defense/structure that compliments their players (For example, Florida utilized a very strong/fast forecheck to compliment their agile & physical forwards). Figure out how to maximize our overall game by tailoring it in a way that emphasizes our stars skillsets. That doesn't mean just going full out offense, but figuring out how to use our strengths to our advantage and minimize mistakes.

For example, one issue this year in the playoffs was poorly timed pinches by our defensemen other than Rielly. Mostly because these players were too slow to get back into the play if they put themselves out of position. Also, trying to move the puck out of our d-zone was putrid in games 1-2 or 3.

I’m thinking more along the lines of winning a championship and just icing team trying to make the playofff

Yes they’ve proven they need 1a or 1b to help Rielly. What they have now, and have had for several years is not championship level.

The 4 forwards are too similar and simply not good enough.

Other than the year they missed this playoffs, this might be worst team they’ve iced in the Dubas era.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

Everyone talking about our forwards but doesn't our d need a big overhaul? It seems like Reilly is the only d we have that you can be confident will be a good top 4 d next year. Bodie is 34 and looks like his best days are behind him. Gio looked like he was on his last legs at the end of the year. I don't think McCabe showed that he's a good top 4 dman. Schenn ended up playing a lot but he was never supposed to be a top 4 dman and I wouldn't count on that next year if he stays.

I do agree our defense needs some help if Brodie is going to be delivering that type of performance in the postseason. The inexperience of McCabe was definitely visible even though he is in a great contract cap hit for us atm. It's a bit disappointing because earlier on defense was strong suit for us but during the post season like many of our forwards kind of fizzled out and its not fun.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

Per Friedman Leafs have told Schenn they want him back

That would be fantastic if he would take a team friendly deal

 

[Warden of the North]

I think the NHLPA and Matthews are working hand in hand to push the contracts of players to new highs.

I think they are looking at the silly NBA giant contracts handed out to bench players making 15-20 million and they are saying our stars should making more than that.

They are using Matthews as the front runner to push the envelope.

They should be pressuring every star to do it.

 

[mikeyz]

I think it's ridiculous to state Keefe isn't a good coach to be honest. You don't have the consistent regular season success we have without a fairly good system for our team to play in.

I think the real debate is whether he's the wrong coach for our team or his system doesn't work as well in the playoffs.

However, you can't argue his regular season success. I know Leaf fans, for good reason, don't care about regular season success, but it is still a very important part of a team's season. Florida was extremely close to not making the playoffs (one more loss and they might be looking at more big trades). A month or so ago and people were hating on Paul Maurice and now everybody's praising him.


Can, not will or should.

We all know this team is skilled enough that they should be going deeper. That's why we're frustrated... not because our team isn't talented/skilled enough, but because it is and they've routinely underperformed in the playoffs.

Should they be going deeper though? The jury is in on how to beat this core.

 

[shaner8989]

Holmberg is 100% a lock next season. I’d say McMann is close to a lock as well.

 

[seanlinden]

I disagree. Schenn showed his worth in the playoffs. He is easily worth $2M per season and is a perfect fit alongside Rielly. He’s much better than both Liljegren and Timmins currently. And adds an element we seriously lack.

No team with a contract over $10M has been to the cup final. Extremely flawed stat considering how it has only recently become the norm that top players receive $10M per contracts. Even then, just because no one has done it, doesn’t mean it’s not possible. Top paid players usually equal top talent players. Give me a 10M player over a 5M player any day, assuming they deserve the contract.

He's a great fit for Rielly, but he's not at, or anywhere near Rielly's level.

Yes, he fit there, but he'd also fit great on a "2nd or 3rd pair" with TJ Brodie.... or maybe he does end up back with Rielly, but your 2nd pair is substantially upgraded -- similar to how Tampa spreads out Hedman and Sergachev.

Brodie might actually be a bit of a sleeper trade candidate... he's still very solid, and very versatile, but he's got 1 year left at $5m and does a lot of the things that they're hoping to get out of Liljegren. If you want to add a $6-7m defenceman, it's a lot more digestable if it's an upgrade from a $5m guy; and I'm sure there's a long list of teams that would love to add Brodie.

 

[mydnyte]

That would be fantastic if he would take a team friendly deal

Schenn has pretty much been a league min player since 2018, so, if he's making more than the min, he'll be overpaid

 

[BallardEra]

Schenn has pretty much been a league min player since 2018, so, if he's making more than the min, he'll be overpaid

Schenn alluded to the fact he's taken league minimum deals and is looking to get more this time around.

 

[Stephen]

Everyone talking about our forwards but doesn't our d need a big overhaul? It seems like Reilly is the only d we have that you can be confident will be a good top 4 d next year. Bodie is 34 and looks like his best days are behind him. Gio looked like he was on his last legs at the end of the year. I don't think McCabe showed that he's a good top 4 dman. Schenn ended up playing a lot but he was never supposed to be a top 4 dman and I wouldn't count on that next year if he stays.

I would think a Big 4 swap out and the Holl, Kerfoot money would free up some room for a defensive renovation.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Gio turn into the next Simmonds who can't get into the lineup next year.

Would like to dump Brodie. He's low key very expensive to be a non as offensive, non transitional, non point shot, non physical, not large and imposing defensive defneseman. He's crafty and a stabilizing factor back there, but we need some oomph and a defenseman who can push Morgan Rielly. Brodie's gotta go. He's breaking down too.

 

[3blizzard4]

They should be pressuring every star to do it.

It might come to that except that NBA tv revenue is on another level altogether.

 

[stickty111]