Post-Game Talk: 2023-2024 Leafs Roster/Changes/Turnovers & Replacement(s)

[BertCorbeau]

The idea of trading Marner has some interesting layers:

- move him now before July 1st before his NMC kicks in opens. The door for any team to bring him in for 2 years (at a very steep cap hit)
- but does that team want to pay big assets for a two year window? And how many teams fit that bill who have the cap space?
- trading Marner this off-season after July 1st doesn’t seem to make much sense based on this because he cannot be extended until next summer anyway so a team may be hesitant on it

Whereas:

- next offseason he has a full NMC but will be able to re-sign an extension.
- the Leafs ability to retain some money to boost the value becomes much more feasible

So which has more value? Both options present a limited market for him.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Leafs spent to the cap....beyond the cap actually because Oreillys contract was partially retained by others. They can't afford better goalies or defense. They spent all their money on forwards and three of those forwards are the highest paid players in the league. Higher than Eichel, higher than Tkachuk, higher than Pietrangelo, higher than Brobrovski...etc etc.

When you pay players too 5 wages, you except them to perform better than those who are paid less... And that will compensate for the weaknesses in goal and on defense.

But as you noted, the leafs aren't able to compensate! Meaning the pay structure isn't working!

So simple, yet the concept eludes some.

 

[aingefan]

Galchenyuk-Kerfoot-Nylander line proved Nylander doesn't need a top line center to produce.

He needs someone with enough skill and speed to keep up with him.

Nylander needs someone he can pass the puck to that he doesn't have to wait for.

Nylander is most able to create and take his own scoring chance.

Mitch prolly second, but once he creates the opportunity he defaults to pass the large majority of the time. He’s better when he shoots more.

 

[ULF_55]

How did that nickname not get more legs?
Well done.

I'm just not sure that would be 3 sugars and 2 cream, or vice versa?

Triple Double ...

 

[ULF_55]

Personally not really pissed at either of them, just re-signed pragmatism. Matthews and Nylander can be locked up long term now, and realistically they are a good enough 1-2 elite offensive punch if the rest of the mix is right. I hate the idea of Matthews being the highest paid player in the league, but as long as he's here you've got the centrepiece of a good/great team. Without him that gets much harder to thread the needle.

Yep.

I think they need to run it back ... and not have the luck to face a historically excellent goaltending performance. We remember reading at the time how excellent Bobrovsky was during that period.

I question Matthews commitment to doing everything to win, and I believe marner still has some catastrophic warts in his game, and we know Tavares is Tavares. But all 3 of them are excellent players, perhaps overpaid by a total of $6mm, which of course would provide another weapon near Nylander's tier 2 Cap Hit.

There aren't 3 players available who you can replace them with.

 

[francis246]

Yep.

I think they need to run it back ... and not have the luck to face a historically excellent goaltending performance. We remember reading at the time how excellent Bobrovsky was during that period.

I question Matthews commitment to doing everything to win, and I believe marner still has some catastrophic warts in his game, and we know Tavares is Tavares. But all 3 of them are excellent players, perhaps overpaid by a total of $6mm, which of course would provide another weapon near Nylander's tier 2 Cap Hit.

There aren't 3 players available who you can replace them with.

Don’t you think splitting Matthews and Marner up could force that commitment? Sit them both down and say this is the way it’s going to be. You don’t play together on the same line anymore, it’s about the team

 

[notDatsyuk]

The idea of trading Marner has some interesting layers:

- move him now before July 1st before his NMC kicks in opens. The door for any team to bring him in for 2 years (at a very steep cap hit)
- but does that team want to pay big assets for a two year window? And how many teams fit that bill who have the cap space?
- trading Marner this off-season after July 1st doesn’t seem to make much sense based on this because he cannot be extended until next summer anyway so a team may be hesitant on it

Whereas:

- next offseason he has a full NMC but will be able to re-sign an extension.
- the Leafs ability to retain some money to boost the value becomes much more feasible

So which has more value? Both options present a limited market for him.

What's the point in being able to boost his value in a trade if you can't trade him?

 

[ULF_55]

Don’t you think splitting Matthews and Marner up could force that commitment? Sit them both down and say this is the way it’s going to be. You don’t play together on the same line anymore, it’s about the team

When something just isn't working ...

Just because you have 4 top scorers doesn't mean they have to be stapled together.

Try something different!

Tavares-Matthews-?
Nylander-?-marner

?-Matthews-?
Nylander-?-marner
?-Tavares-?

I mean 1 goal produced between Tavares, Matthews and marner, their Triple Double.

For me it always goes back to Keefe.

 

[notDatsyuk]

When something just isn't working ...

Just because you have 4 top scorers doesn't mean they have to be stapled together.

Try something different!

Tavares-Matthews-?
Nylander-?-marner

?-Matthews-?
Nylander-?-marner
?-Tavares-?

I mean 1 goal produced between Tavares, Matthews and marner, their Triple Double.

For me it always goes back to Keefe.

I'd be interested in trying

?-Matthews-?
?-Nylander-Marner
?-Tavares-?

 

[francis246]

I'd be interested in trying

?-Matthews-?
?-Nylander-Marner
?-Tavares-?

This wouldn’t be bad, there are complimentary players out there we could potentially acquire. I’d personally love Miles Wood, he might be a little too rich. Tyler Toffoli might be a good fit; Scarborough kid, can score goals. Also acquiring Lindholm or Backlund could solve some of our Center issues and we could move Tavares to the wing. I think Toronto has got to make a decision here, it’s tough I want them to hang on to pick 28 but it might be necessary to move it for a complimentary piece that can help now.

 

[ULF_55]

This wouldn’t be bad, there are complimentary players out there we could potentially acquire. I’d personally love Miles Wood, he might be a little too rich. Tyler Toffoli might be a good fit; Scarborough kid, can score goals. Also acquiring Lindholm or Backlund could solve some of our Center issues and we could move Tavares to the wing. I think Toronto has got to make a decision here, it’s tough I want them to hang on to pick 28 but it might be necessary to move it for a complimentary piece that can help now.

I'd be disappointed if they move the pick for one day only.

The draft is entertainment, so as long as they keep the pick until draft day then that would keep some entertainment there.

However, 28th. pick isn't likely to be part of this iteration of the core.

The Leafs long term future is bleak, but we are living in the now.

 

[pcruz]

When something just isn't working ...

Just because you have 4 top scorers doesn't mean they have to be stapled together.

Try something different!

Tavares-Matthews-?
Nylander-?-marner

?-Matthews-?
Nylander-?-marner
?-Tavares-?

I mean 1 goal produced between Tavares, Matthews and marner, their Triple Double.

For me it always goes back to Keefe.

Tavares and Matthews are both net front shooters.

Who is the set up person?

Who is the puck retriever?

Marner and Nylander are both puck controllers.

Which one gets to carry the puck and create?

If Nylander, will he ever pass off?
If Marner, will he ever not pass?
Who is going to play C, be the net front, and puck retriever?

That's why it hasn't been tried.

 

[ULF_55]

Tavares and Matthews are both net front shooters.

Who is the set up person?

Who is the puck retriever?

Marner and Nylander are both puck controllers.

Which one gets to carry the puck and create?

If Nylander, will he ever pass off?
If Marner, will he ever not pass?
Who is going to play C, be the net front, and puck retriever?

That's why it hasn't been tried.

So are you suggesting what they did was acceptable?

1 goal - marner and Mathews - Montreal
1 goal - marner and Mathews - Florida

You are okay with that?

 

[andora]

Tavares and Matthews are both net front shooters.

Who is the set up person?

Who is the puck retriever?

Marner and Nylander are both puck controllers.

Which one gets to carry the puck and create?

If Nylander, will he ever pass off?
If Marner, will he ever not pass?
Who is going to play C, be the net front, and puck retriever?

That's why it hasn't been tried.

It is frustrating to not try something based on their player type in EA sports

 

[pcruz]

So are you suggesting what they did was acceptable?

1 goal - marner and Mathews - Montreal
1 goal - marner and Mathews - Florida

You are okay with that?

Did you read that in my post somewhere.
Maybe in white text perhaps.

It is frustrating to not try something based on their player type in EA sports

What is EA sports?

 

[andora]

Did you read that in my post somewhere.
Maybe in white text perhaps.






What is EA sports?

just sports video games. i presume they still do but it would have player types associated to each player, like sniper / playmaker / two way forward etc..

 

[pcruz]

just sports video games. i presume they still do but it would have player types associated to each player, like sniper / playmaker / two way forward etc..

Oh.

The last hockey game I played had 3 player types:

Fat
Medium
Skinny


Is it something like that?

 

[andora]

Oh.

The last hockey game I played had 3 player types:

Fat
Medium
Skinny


Is it something like that?

Yep.. exactly

 

[TheGroceryStick]

I don't know what I want...
I like alot of the players on this team, but I don't like this team. Lol doesn't really make sense.

I'm unsure if they have what it takes to win a cup, yet I really don't want to trade a core4.

 

[RAM]

Toronto's future is really somber, looks like the are staying with the 4 core (insane). after July they are stuck with them, and will have to pay more to keep them so the imbalance of the team make up will be even worse. Now no draft picks until when 2026 so maybe by 2030 they might get interesting again this is so said for the fans

 

[pcruz]

Yep.. exactly

Ok, so what exactly does that have to do with different players having different styles and strengths?


Like I mentioned, Tavares and Matthews are strongest at the net.
They both like to shoot.

If they play the same line, who does what?
And who is going to fees them?
And who is going to go in the corners and behind the net to battle for the loose pucks and rebounds?


As for Nylander and Marner.
Neither is particularly adept at net front.
Nylander in particular is great the dozen or so times he goes in tight over the 82 game season, but he's almost completely unwilling to do it with any regularity.
Marner is a perimeter play maker, and it's stupid to expect him to be Owen Nolan all of a sudden.


It's not that the players can't do it for shifts here and there, but their preference of positions and their strengths are what they are.

It's never a good idea to force your players into the roles they're less adept at.

 

[ULF_55]

Oh.

The last hockey game I played had 3 player types:

Fat
Medium
Skinny


Is it something like that?

Last NHL game I played was in 1989 while overseas working for a bank.
I watched my VCR taped games over and over again, including one where the Leafs got trounced by about 7 goals, but it was the only hockey I had there.

It didn't have many options ...

 

[ULF_55]

Ok, so what exactly does that have to do with different players having different styles and strengths?


Like I mentioned, Tavares and Matthews are strongest at the net.
They both like to shoot.

If they play the same line, who does what?
And who is going to fees them?
And who is going to go in the corners and behind the net to battle for the loose pucks and rebounds?


As for Nylander and Marner.
Neither is particularly adept at net front.
Nylander in particular is great the dozen or so times he goes in tight over the 82 game season, but he's almost completely unwilling to do it with any regularity.
Marner is a perimeter play maker, and it's stupid to expect him to be Owen Nolan all of a sudden.


It's not that the players can't do it for shifts here and there, but their preference of positions and their strengths are what they are.

It's never a good idea to force your players into the roles they're less adept at.

Doesn't Nylander score over 30% from net front?

 

[andora]

Ok, so what exactly does that have to do with different players having different styles and strengths?


Like I mentioned, Tavares and Matthews are strongest at the net.
They both like to shoot.

If they play the same line, who does what?
And who is going to fees them?
And who is going to go in the corners and behind the net to battle for the loose pucks and rebounds?


As for Nylander and Marner.
Neither is particularly adept at net front.
Nylander in particular is great the dozen or so times he goes in tight over the 82 game season, but he's almost completely unwilling to do it with any regularity.
Marner is a perimeter play maker, and it's stupid to expect him to be Owen Nolan all of a sudden.


It's not that the players can't do it for shifts here and there, but their preference of positions and their strengths are what they are.

It's never a good idea to force your players into the roles they're less adept at.

I guess.. i am more of a play the system not where you like to stand on the ice. Matthews and tavares can both venture down and get pucks. Nylander and marner together could work we dont know. The puck on marners stick less doesnt default to bad - he can make quick plays

Each combo could work and getting a good third guy never know could have something..

Personally i have always thought
X matthews x
X tavares marner
X x nylander
Was worth trying for an extended period.

 

[Dayjobdave]

The next week could be wild.

draft
free agency
no trades kicking in
extensions
trades

should be great entertainment