Post-Game Talk: 2023-2024 Leafs Roster/Changes/Turnovers & Replacement(s)

[francis246]

There you go with that silly 'PPG' argument again. Half his goals and points came on the PP and half playing with one of the best RW in the league. Not so wonderful.

Don’t give a flying fck where his points come from LOL. Points are still points. You need to score to win whether it’s on the PP, SH or ES. It’s really dumb to try and downplay a PPG player based on how they score their points. It’s all the same.

 

[notDatsyuk]

1- its not the idea, i think nylander make matthews worst and i think the way knies playing, hes a better fit to play with Matthews and knies is already better defensivly than nylander... i send jarnkrok in that line because hes a guy whos working hard to get the puck back and pretty good defensivly so also can help the rookie

2- i say it since the playoff, for me Marner is a betrer player away of Matthews. When hes playing with Matthews, hes playing FOR Matthews and not as dominant. So yes i want to see Marner driving his own line and no im not wasting marner, i try to get out the best version of Marner. I put comtois here for the same reason of Jarnkrok...

3- nylander is to make something florida did with reinhart or chicago with sharp or pittsburgh with kessel on his 3rd line and make damage against weaker line. Its a guy i dont want to play against top offensive line, hes too risky... trying to keep his offensive impact and reducing his negative defensive impact... and when you trailing and need a goal, he will still move up in the line up, will still play in pp


4- for robertson what i said is you can considerate a 21 player who didn't played more than 15 game in a season in an other way than a prospect.

Apparently there are stats showing that Nylander makes Matthews better. But do you really think Jarnkrok would be better there?

A lot of people, myself included, think Marner is better away from Matthews (and vice versa), and I wouldn't mind seeing him try to drive his own line (although I'm not sure he can), but my point was that he shouldn't be doing it with JT.

As the leading scorer last year, I don't think you have play him against weaker lines, and a lot of his 'negative defensive impact' had to do with playing with JT on the third line and Mitch and Willy on the top two makes much more sense for all of them.

I didn't say I don't consider Robertson a prospect (although I'm not sure he's a bona fide NHLer), but just that the six months age difference isn't what's critical in assessing.

Don’t give a flying fck where his points come from LOL. Points are still points. You need to score to win whether it’s on the PP, SH or ES. It’s really dumb to try and downplay a PPG player based on how they score their points. It’s all the same.

Shouldn't a good centre be good at even strength, which is where he will spend most of his time?

 

[francis246]

Apparently there are stats showing that Nylander makes Matthews better. But do you really think Jarnkrok would be better there?

A lot of people, myself included, think Marner is better away from Matthews (and vice versa), and I wouldn't mind seeing him try to drive his own line (although I'm not sure he can), but my point was that he shouldn't be doing it with JT.

As the leading scorer last year, I don't think you have play him against weaker lines, and a lot of his 'negative defensive impact' had to do with playing with JT on the third line and Mitch and Willy on the top two makes much more sense for all of them.

I didn't say I don't consider Robertson a prospect (although I'm not sure he's a bona fide NHLer), but just that the six months age difference isn't what's critical in assessing.


Shouldn't a good centre be good at even strength, which is where he will spend most of his time?

Strong power play has been a fundamental piece of this teams identity since Babcock. Either way having 36 goals is 36 goals. and valuable to any team. Again overpaid right now but hardly declining

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I’m not worried about him falling off as much as I just didn’t see the upside in the playoffs. “You gotta watch him in isolation, he does all the little things right!!” but somehow when I watch him in isolation him being well positioned doesn’t distract me from his Gardiner-tier blind unforced giveaways in his own zone.

He’s not an elite playmaker anymore, he’s too slow to be an all-situations elite shutdown guy, and he’s not even the most reliable guy to make the safe correct play anymore. He’s just a guy who can win faceoffs when healthy and is useful around the net if he has good linemates.

I wouldn’t mind him at a reasonable price but the delusions about him still being some sort of Selke level disciplined warrior-monk with physicality and elite playmaking need to stop immediately. He has an average top-6 skill set and brain with 4th line speed at this point.

The time to get ROR long term was when St. Louis got him. That ship has sailed.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Craig Button recent comments.

It would seem that, now that Kyle Dubas has officially left the Toronto Maple Leafs and taken a new job with the Pittsburgh Penguins, the gloves are coming off. While there were some voices that were critical of the work that Dubas did during his tenure in Toronto, they were largely in the minority. That is at least up until the point that Dubas was fired by Maple Leafs president Brendan Shanahan, with seemingly many more analysts suddenly willing to speak out about Dubas' work in Toronto.

The latest example of this is TSN's Craig Button, who last week absolutely unloaded on Dubas when it comes to his work as a general manager for the Leafs. Button was quick to argue that Toronto's now infamous 'core four' shouldn't be taken to task over the lack of success, but instead that it should be Dubas who shoulders the brunt of the blame when it comes to their inability to be more competitive in the playoffs.

"The problem isn't Matthews, the problem isn't Marner, the problem isn't Nylander or those guys, they're not the problem," said Button. "The problem is the previous manager didn't build a winning team."

Button argued that the Leafs needed more depth in the bottom six as well as a heavier defense on the blue line, and doubled down on his criticisms of Dubas.

"The manager failed," said Button. "He failed.... Kyle Dubas thought that he had a different formula. He failed spectacularly with a formula that had shown never any semblance of being able to have success."

Hey Craig, how does one go out paying for better bottom 6 depth and a heavy defense with the restraints of the salary cap given the salary demands of the Corpse 4?

What an idiot.

EDIT: Do not take this to mean I supported Dubas. I did not. That said, I see this as corporate spin to demonize the dearly departed and excuse the ones that are still here. I'm frankly sick and tired of simplistic "this" OR "that" arguments.

How about the problem was "this" AND "that"?

 

[thusk]

Apparently there are stats showing that Nylander makes Matthews better. But do you really think Jarnkrok would be better there?

A lot of people, myself included, think Marner is better away from Matthews (and vice versa), and I wouldn't mind seeing him try to drive his own line (although I'm not sure he can), but my point was that he shouldn't be doing it with JT.

As the leading scorer last year, I don't think you have play him against weaker lines, and a lot of his 'negative defensive impact' had to do with playing with JT on the third line and Mitch and Willy on the top two makes much more sense for all of them.

I didn't say I don't consider Robertson a prospect (although I'm not sure he's a bona fide NHLer), but just that the six months age difference isn't what's critical in assessing.


Shouldn't a good centre be good at even strength, which is where he will spend most of his time?

Its just about fit and complementary player... i dont put jarnkrok on 1st line because i think hes better... i put him because i think what hes bring complete more matthews and knies than nylander.

The same way i think jt is a better complement for marner game than nylander whos pretty similar of marner way of playing. 2 guy who lover control and need to control the puck as much they can.

The reason i put toews with nylander... toews is nit fast but will rush the net, go on dirty area, play hard defensivly and do the job nylander dont want to.

The gosl is not just put the best player together, its to get the most dangerous line up by trying to improve as much skill of everyone and trying to reduce weakness as much you can

 

[Mess]

Dubas put all his eggs in the Triple Doubles' Baskets.

Dubas was too high on them.

Too high in contracts not talent.

How do you push the cost reset button to correct the problem?

 

[ULF_55]

Too high in contracts not talent.

How do you push the cost reset button to correct the problem?

You're either brave or you blame the previous guy.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I just want you to say that MacKinnon is better than McDavid since half McDavid's points came on the PP and he is playing with the best winger (Draisaitl) for most of his 5v5 time.

There are people who argue that MacKinnon is better, but both of them are virtually PPG at even strength, so it's a bit different.

Also, all the top centres have 2/3 or more of their goals at even strength, which further supports my point.

Zibanejad is the highest scoring centre with even close to as many PP goals as ES goals, and he still has a lot more ES assists.

Yes, JT is still useful on the PP and good at faceoffs. They don't necessarily make him a good 2C.

 

[hockeywiz542]

JUICY LEAFS TALK WITH DARREN DREGER | Leafs Morning Take - June 21st

The Leafs Nation

June 21, 2023

With the NHL Draft just a week away, business is starting to pick up around the league. TSN Hockey Insider Darren Dreger joined Nick Alberga & Jay Rosehill to touch on the very latest in Leafs Nation.

NHL Insider predicts massive upheaval for Maple Leafs

This would be franchise altering.

www.hockeyfeed.com

So, what exactly will new Toronto Maple Leafs general manager Brad Treliving be doing with the "Core 4" of John Tavares, Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner and William Nylander?

If this prediction from TSN analyst Darren Dreger holds true, there will be a massive upheaval this time next year in Toronto should they once again fail to make a deep postseason run.

While speaking with Leafs Morning Take with Nick Alberga and Jay Rosehill, Dreger expressed his belief that the Core 4 has reached "the end of the runway". He also appeared to hint at a coaching change.

"I think that the Core 4 is at the end of the runway. I really, truly do.. I side with Shanahan and I side with Brad Treliving in recognizing the skill set of these players. Now, if the maturity moves up another notch... I think they can win with these guys, and if they can't, then guess what - when you have me on next June, there will be significant change, and it will come in varying forms and not just the roster."

The Leafs have already indicated that all four players will be back in Toronto next season, and it looks as though they'll be keeping head coach Sheldon Keefe around for at least one more season.

But based on Dreger's words, it all could come to a crashing halt next summer.

 

[ToneDog]

JUICY LEAFS TALK WITH DARREN DREGER | Leafs Morning Take - June 21st

The Leafs Nation

June 21, 2023

With the NHL Draft just a week away, business is starting to pick up around the league. TSN Hockey Insider Darren Dreger joined Nick Alberga & Jay Rosehill to touch on the very latest in Leafs Nation.

NHL Insider predicts massive upheaval for Maple Leafs

This would be franchise altering.

www.hockeyfeed.com

So, what exactly will new Toronto Maple Leafs general manager Brad Treliving be doing with the "Core 4" of John Tavares, Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner and William Nylander?

If this prediction from TSN analyst Darren Dreger holds true, there will be a massive upheaval this time next year in Toronto should they once again fail to make a deep postseason run.

While speaking with Leafs Morning Take with Nick Alberga and Jay Rosehill, Dreger expressed his belief that the Core 4 has reached "the end of the runway". He also appeared to hint at a coaching change.

"I think that the Core 4 is at the end of the runway. I really, truly do.. I side with Shanahan and I side with Brad Treliving in recognizing the skill set of these players. Now, if the maturity moves up another notch... I think they can win with these guys, and if they can't, then guess what - when you have me on next June, there will be significant change, and it will come in varying forms and not just the roster."

The Leafs have already indicated that all four players will be back in Toronto next season, and it looks as though they'll be keeping head coach Sheldon Keefe around for at least one more season.

But based on Dreger's words, it all could come to a crashing halt next summer.

 

[Martin Skoula]

JUICY LEAFS TALK WITH DARREN DREGER | Leafs Morning Take - June 21st

The Leafs Nation

June 21, 2023

With the NHL Draft just a week away, business is starting to pick up around the league. TSN Hockey Insider Darren Dreger joined Nick Alberga & Jay Rosehill to touch on the very latest in Leafs Nation.

NHL Insider predicts massive upheaval for Maple Leafs

This would be franchise altering.

www.hockeyfeed.com

So, what exactly will new Toronto Maple Leafs general manager Brad Treliving be doing with the "Core 4" of John Tavares, Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner and William Nylander?

If this prediction from TSN analyst Darren Dreger holds true, there will be a massive upheaval this time next year in Toronto should they once again fail to make a deep postseason run.

While speaking with Leafs Morning Take with Nick Alberga and Jay Rosehill, Dreger expressed his belief that the Core 4 has reached "the end of the runway". He also appeared to hint at a coaching change.

"I think that the Core 4 is at the end of the runway. I really, truly do.. I side with Shanahan and I side with Brad Treliving in recognizing the skill set of these players. Now, if the maturity moves up another notch... I think they can win with these guys, and if they can't, then guess what - when you have me on next June, there will be significant change, and it will come in varying forms and not just the roster."

The Leafs have already indicated that all four players will be back in Toronto next season, and it looks as though they'll be keeping head coach Sheldon Keefe around for at least one more season.

But based on Dreger's words, it all could come to a crashing halt next summer.

Lmao

 

[hockeywiz542]

LeBrun rumblings: What's next for Milan Lucic? Plus the latest on O'Reilly, Hellebuyck, DeBrincat, Dubois, more

Could a Bruins-Lucic reunion be in play? The rugged winger tells The Athletic: "Obviously it's a special place for me."

theathletic.com

Could Ryan O’Reilly return to Toronto after all?

The way Ryan O’Reilly sounded on locker cleanout day, it seemed like he viewed his stay in Toronto as a rental experience, even if it was one he said he enjoyed. But my understanding of the situation now is that the veteran center, 32, hasn’t closed the door on Toronto — and that the Leafs under new general manager Brad Treliving have expressed interest in bringing him back if there’s a deal that works for both sides, also understanding that they’re juggling a lot of balls right now.

In general, O’Reilly hasn’t closed any doors. His camp, led by Newport Sports veteran agent Pat Morris, is approaching his UFA situation with an open mind. It’s not a deep UFA center class this year, David Krejci and Patrice Bergeron are either returning to Boston or retiring. Max Domi can play center and wing and put up 13 points in 19 playoff games with Dallas. J.T. Compher had a career-high 52 points, and we’ll see whether he’s too expensive for the Avs to re-sign. Jordan Staal is in negotiations to re-sign with the Hurricanes. Erik Haula. Jonathan Toews. … There just aren’t that many impact centers available.

If O’Reilly reaches free agency, despite his off-year offensively, I think his market will be strong, especially considering everything he brings. I don’t believe his camp has a set AAV or term in mind. I think they want to be able to be flexible, depending on the fit and market. But in the meantime, I would expect another conversation between Morris and Treliving next week in Nashville.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Its just about fit and complementary player... i dont put jarnkrok on 1st line because i think hes better... i put him because i think what hes bring complete more matthews and knies than nylander.

The same way i think jt is a better complement for marner game than nylander whos pretty similar of marner way of playing. 2 guy who lover control and need to control the puck as much they can.

The reason i put toews with nylander... toews is nit fast but will rush the net, go on dirty area, play hard defensivly and do the job nylander dont want to.

The gosl is not just put the best player together, its to get the most dangerous line up by trying to improve as much skill of everyone and trying to reduce weakness as much you can

I didn't ask if you thought Jarnkrok was better, just if you thought he would be better with Matthews. If you do, fine, we just disagree.

My point wasn't which was better with JT, but that either one was better without him.

I think part of the problem with Nylander is that he's likely the fastest on the team, and JT is one of the slowest.Toews is older, slower, and worse both offensively and defensively.

I don't think putting your most dangerous player on the third line with a marginal NHLer and an old slow centre is condusive to creating "the most dangerous lineup".

 

[ULF_55]

I didn't ask if you thought Jarnkrok was better, just if you thought he would be better with Matthews. If you do, fine, we just disagree.

My point wasn't which was better with JT, but that either one was better without him.

I think part of the problem with Nylander is that he's likely the fastest on the team, and JT is one of the slowest.Toews is older, slower, and worse both offensively and defensively.

I don't think putting your most dangerous player on the third line with a marginal NHLer and an old slow centre is condusive to creating "the most dangerous lineup".

Galchenyuk-Kerfoot-Nylander line proved Nylander doesn't need a top line center to produce.

He needs someone with enough skill and speed to keep up with him.

Nylander needs someone he can pass the puck to that he doesn't have to wait for.

 

[Antropovsky]

JUICY LEAFS TALK WITH DARREN DREGER | Leafs Morning Take - June 21st

The Leafs Nation

June 21, 2023

With the NHL Draft just a week away, business is starting to pick up around the league. TSN Hockey Insider Darren Dreger joined Nick Alberga & Jay Rosehill to touch on the very latest in Leafs Nation.

NHL Insider predicts massive upheaval for Maple Leafs

This would be franchise altering.

www.hockeyfeed.com

So, what exactly will new Toronto Maple Leafs general manager Brad Treliving be doing with the "Core 4" of John Tavares, Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner and William Nylander?

If this prediction from TSN analyst Darren Dreger holds true, there will be a massive upheaval this time next year in Toronto should they once again fail to make a deep postseason run.

While speaking with Leafs Morning Take with Nick Alberga and Jay Rosehill, Dreger expressed his belief that the Core 4 has reached "the end of the runway". He also appeared to hint at a coaching change.

"I think that the Core 4 is at the end of the runway. I really, truly do.. I side with Shanahan and I side with Brad Treliving in recognizing the skill set of these players. Now, if the maturity moves up another notch... I think they can win with these guys, and if they can't, then guess what - when you have me on next June, there will be significant change, and it will come in varying forms and not just the roster."

The Leafs have already indicated that all four players will be back in Toronto next season, and it looks as though they'll be keeping head coach Sheldon Keefe around for at least one more season.

But based on Dreger's words, it all could come to a crashing halt next summer.

Lol what a prediction Dreger.... Next summer! What are they gonna do? If Matthews re-signs he will have a NMC, Marner had a NMC still next offseason and he won't be waiving those beautiful endorsement deals away. Same goes to Tavares...

If leafs are gonna make big changes it needs to be in the next 10 datz otherwise they are screwd.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Galchenyuk-Kerfoot-Nylander line proved Nylander doesn't need a top line center to produce.

He needs someone with enough skill and speed to keep up with him.

Nylander needs someone he can pass the puck to that he doesn't have to wait for.

Exactly! Which I why the suggestion of either JT or Toews as his centre is just wrong.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

Videos - NHL, NBA, NFL, Super Bowl, CFL, MLB, Golf, Tennis, Soccer

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www.tsn.ca

 

[Malachi Crunch]

JUICY LEAFS TALK WITH DARREN DREGER | Leafs Morning Take - June 21st

The Leafs Nation

June 21, 2023

With the NHL Draft just a week away, business is starting to pick up around the league. TSN Hockey Insider Darren Dreger joined Nick Alberga & Jay Rosehill to touch on the very latest in Leafs Nation.

NHL Insider predicts massive upheaval for Maple Leafs

This would be franchise altering.

www.hockeyfeed.com

So, what exactly will new Toronto Maple Leafs general manager Brad Treliving be doing with the "Core 4" of John Tavares, Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner and William Nylander?

If this prediction from TSN analyst Darren Dreger holds true, there will be a massive upheaval this time next year in Toronto should they once again fail to make a deep postseason run.

While speaking with Leafs Morning Take with Nick Alberga and Jay Rosehill, Dreger expressed his belief that the Core 4 has reached "the end of the runway". He also appeared to hint at a coaching change.

"I think that the Core 4 is at the end of the runway. I really, truly do.. I side with Shanahan and I side with Brad Treliving in recognizing the skill set of these players. Now, if the maturity moves up another notch... I think they can win with these guys, and if they can't, then guess what - when you have me on next June, there will be significant change, and it will come in varying forms and not just the roster."

The Leafs have already indicated that all four players will be back in Toronto next season, and it looks as though they'll be keeping head coach Sheldon Keefe around for at least one more season.

But based on Dreger's words, it all could come to a crashing halt next summer.

This reminds me of the type of situation where someone gets beat up/harrassed and after the incident he tells his friends "if I see that guy again, I swear, he's finished!". And, of course, when he sees the guy again, he does nothing.

 

[thusk]

I didn't ask if you thought Jarnkrok was better, just if you thought he would be better with Matthews. If you do, fine, we just disagree.

My point wasn't which was better with JT, but that either one was better without him.

I think part of the problem with Nylander is that he's likely the fastest on the team, and JT is one of the slowest.Toews is older, slower, and worse both offensively and defensively.

I don't think putting your most dangerous player on the third line with a marginal NHLer and an old slow centre is condusive to creating "the most dangerous lineup".

We talk about creating a playoff line up and not just build something for regulsr playoff... everytime Matthees played with nylander in playoff, they was trash because with lack pf nylander commitment defensive side... they was just defending majority of the time against top opposite line...you talked about being dangerous yes youre right hes extremely dangerous but also extremely dangerous for his own team because of lack of defensive commitment whos really Matthews game at the end...its why keefe always finishing to bring back marner back with matthews

Yes hes the faster player with rielly in this team ans creating over 90% of his chance at 5v5 in counter-attack using his speed.


-Thats why i dont want to see nylander with matthews
- didn't work pretty well with Tavares...
So you need to find a way to use him with his strenght ane reducing his weakness...
-

I shoot toews but can be someone else, theyre just not a lot of C available...maybe they can use acciari as centre and

Where he was the most dangerous most of the time at 5v5 during all playoff was pratically when he was double shifted on the 4th line with kampf and lafferty against weaker opposition and was able to use his speed to create thing...so i dont thing you will necessairly get the worst of him on 3rd

By the past the year he was the most dangerous was when he played with kerfoot and galchenyuk ( 2 bottom 6 player) against suzuki-caufield line who had defensive issues and allowed a lot of space defensivly. Its that kind of thing i want to reproduce, using him against a line with more defensive issues where he will be able to create thing with his speed. Thats where he can help you

 

[ULF_55]

We talk about creating a playoff line up and not just build something for regulsr playoff... everytime Matthees played with nylander in playoff, they was trash because with lack pf nylander commitment defensive side... they was just defending majority of the time against top opposite line...you talked about being dangerous yes youre right hes extremely dangerous but also extremely dangerous for his own team because of lack of defensive commitment whos really Matthews game at the end...its why keefe always finishing to bring back marner back with matthews

This is quite the stretch.

How did Matthews do against Florida and Montreal when stapled to marner?

Seriously, 1 goal in 12 games and he'd do worse with Nylander?

I suppose if you are a Canadiens fan?

 

[thusk]

This is quite the stretch.

How did Matthews do against Florida and Montreal when stapled to marner?

Seriously, 1 goal in 12 games and he'd do worse with Nylander?

I suppose if you are a Canadiens fan?

And thats big part of why i see matthews playing with knies and a complement to create a kind of big powerful line hard to handle and marner with tavares...

And using nylander speed in a 3rd line against weaker opposition...

Its everything knies bring or can bring who make it possible...

 

[francis246]

Galchenyuk-Kerfoot-Nylander line proved Nylander doesn't need a top line center to produce.

He needs someone with enough skill and speed to keep up with him.

Nylander needs someone he can pass the puck to that he doesn't have to wait for.

where as Marner plays better with JT because Marner can actually set up plays because JT can cycle and create space in front of the net. I think Marner prefers slowing it down in the offensive zone, where as Willy and Matthews love scoring off the rush and transition offense.

 

[andora]

I have been going @thusk a bit lately but agree with him here.. if we are keeping the 4 horsemen there should be three lines worth of content

Matthews still benefits from a passer but if he gets two guys that can make good short quick passes offensively it would be fine

 

[francis246]

I have been going @thusk a bit lately but agree with him here.. if we are keeping the 4 horsemen there should be three lines worth of content

Matthews still benefits from a passer but if he gets two guys that can make good short quick passes offensively it would be fine

I’d like them to revisit Robertson and Matthews. With someone like Knies or Jarnkrok a line with three guys who can pound the puck and shoot hard. Knies or Jarnkrok are puck retrieval guys/board guys, Robertson and Matthews are the finishers and would both create space for each other because goalies will have to choose who will finish. That OT goal Robertson scored, i don’t know how Keefe doesn’t look at that and notice what a nightmare that can be for the opposition off the rush nightly.