Post-Game Talk: 2023-2024 Leafs Roster/Changes/Turnovers & Replacement(s)

[Stand Witness]

I saw speculation online that ROR did not enjoy his time here. I remember seeing that he was intending going to market but I didn’t see anything concrete about him not enjoying.

Does anyone remember a specific article or insider referencing this? Or is this speculation stretched in going to market?

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Man I really hope O'Reilly wants to come back. Having ROR , Aciari and Lafferty as the supporting cast would change the complexion of the team as opposed to players like Engvall who played with no intensity. Going to be interesting to see how things shake down. I'd love him back.

 

[PromisedLand]

hey guys wanna hear a funny joke?

 

[thusk]

Your stats show that Willy is at least as good, but you think that with a $4M better contract, he wouldn't get as good a return?

My stats just show nylander is a better goal scorer than marner when they have space like pp, 6v5, 4v4 or 3v3. At 5v5 its pratically even ...And Matthews is a far away of nylander as goal scorer...

If for you toews, a top pairing d, is not a good return... i dont know what you expecting for

 

[Dreakmur]

hey guys wanna hear a funny joke?

f*** no.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

hey guys wanna hear a funny joke?

I mean yea I can see him wanting to be back...but....

 

[notDatsyuk]

My stats just show nylander is a better goal scorer than marner when they have space like pp, 6v5, 4v4 or 3v3. At 5v5 its pratically even ...And Matthews is a far away of nylander as goal scorer...

If for you toews, a top pairing d, is not a good return... i dont know what you expecting for

I didn't mention Matthews - we were talking about Marner.

Yes, Toews would be a good return for Marner, but Nylander should return better than that, as an equivalent player on a much better contract.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

hey guys wanna hear a funny joke?

 

[jiggy35]

Nylander for Hanifin swap + getting Orlov would make for a nice group.

Hanifin - Orlov
Rielly - Schenn
McCabe - Liljegren
Timmins

 

[thusk]

I didn't mention Matthews - we were talking about Marner.

Yes, Toews would be a good return for Marner, but Nylander should return better than that, as an equivalent player on a much better contract.

Lets talk about marner

he is 2nd in 5v5 pts at 3.11 (last 2 sewson cumulated. Hes only the second winger( with Mark Stone) to be finalist for selke last 10 years..

Nylander is 2.37, whos constantly cheating in his defensive zone

You will tall about playoff marner is at 2.32/60 , nylander at 1.39/60

Who do you keep between marner or nylander to have biggest impact for playoff run... a good 5v5 player or a pp, 3v3 or 4v4 specialist when you take in considerstion than more youre far in playoff, less penalty will be call ... just as exemple 25 had been called serie dallas vs vegas ( 8 of them come in only a single gam3). Its at best 2 pp by game.

And yes Marmer didn't had a good series offensivly against florida, but its the case for pratically every leafs player including nylander.

And yes right now nylander win 4M less but it would not be the case in 1 year

 

[thewave]

I saw speculation online that ROR did not enjoy his time here. I remember seeing that he was intending going to market but I didn’t see anything concrete about him not enjoying.

Does anyone remember a specific article or insider referencing this? Or is this speculation stretched in going to market?

This may mean nothing but if I were playing and watching 11m dollar players float around and do dipsy doodle plays that end up with turnover after turnover for multiple games. I would essentially lose my drive and stop playing hard.

That's just me though, maybe some of you guys can watch your best players coast and still keep your mental and physical drive going but for me, nope. When the C or A's get into someones face and roughs them up, or feels the need to drop them, or at the very least raise their voice with battle cry or challenge to the team, that works.

Who am I though.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Lets talk about marner

he is 2nd in 5v5 pts at 3.11 (last 2 sewson cumulated. Hes only the second winger( with Mark Stone) to be finalist for selke last 10 years..

Nylander is 2.37, whos constantly cheating in his defensive zone

You will tall about playoff marner is at 2.32/60 , nylander at 1.39/60

Who do you keep between marner or nylander to have biggest impact for playoff run... a good 5v5 player or a pp, 3v3 or 4v4 specialist when you take in considerstion than more youre far in playoff, less penalty will be call ... just as exemple 25 had been called serie dallas vs vegas ( 8 of them come in only a single gam3). Its at best 2 pp by game.

And yes Marmer didn't had a good series offensivly against florida, but its the case for pratically every leafs player including nylander.

And yes right now nylander win 4M less but it would not be the case in 1 year

You're very good at selecting only one small stat and making it sound like it's everything, but that's really not good.

Only twice in the last seven playoffs has Marner had more ES points than Nylander.

Nylander was the best Leaf other than Rielly against Florida, and has had a bigger impact in the playoffs, despite playing with Tavares while Mitch played with Matthews, and despite being on the second PP unit.

Yes, one year from now Nylander may be getting closer to value, but probably still less than Marner, and what about two years from now, when Mitch re-signs? And even making the same amount, a team focused on winning in the playoffs would likely value Willy more.

 

[thusk]

You're very good at selecting only one small stat and making it sound like it's everything, but that's really not good.

Only twice in the last seven playoffs has Marner had more ES points than Nylander.

Nylander was the best Leaf other than Rielly against Florida, and has had a bigger impact in the playoffs, despite playing with Tavares while Mitch played with Matthews, and despite being on the second PP unit.

Yes, one year from now Nylander may be getting closer to value, but probably still less than Marner, and what about two years from now, when Mitch re-signs? And even making the same amount, a team focused on winning in the playoffs would likely value Willy more.

And why do you think nylander stop playing with matthews in playoff? Matthews was second player who played the most with nylander over 30% of the time and the only time they did something was when marner was also playing with them... thats why he was not playing with Matthews. Everytime keefe tried it, Nylander made Matthews looking worst because most of time they was purchasing the puck amdplaying most of their shift in the defensive end... hard to create offensive by defending

Despite they was playing together without marner over 20% of the time, they didn't get a single pts without marner

Nylander had 2 goal 1 assist vs 1 goal 2 assist vs florida... in my mind look like similar impact

 

[notDatsyuk]

And why do you think nylander stop playing with matthews in playoff? Matthews was second player who played the most with nylander over 30% of the time and the only time they did something was when marner was also playing with them... thats why he was not playing with Matthews. Everytime keefe tried it, Nylander made Matthews looking worst because most of time they was purchasing the puck amdplaying most of their shift in the defensive end... hard to create offensive by defending

Despite they was playing together without marner over 20% of the time, they didn't get a single pts without marner

Nylander had 2 goal 1 assist vs 1 goal 2 assist vs florida... in my mind look like similar impact

You really go to extremes to try to dump on Nylander, don't you?

Matthews had only one ES assist against Florida, and Marner wasn't involved in that either, although he had a lot more ice time with Matthews.

At even strength (which you seemed to think was so much more important in previous posts), Marner had one goal, while Nylander had a goal and an assist. Twice as many points! In 10% less ES ice time (and a weaker centre)!

On the PP, which other people seem to think is also part of the game, Marner had 2 assists, and Nylander had a goal in roughly half the time, and with mostly the second unit.

 

[Maple Leaf]

ROR at low cost sure
Guy is thenext tavares
Jason allison

 

[thusk]

You really go to extremes to try to dump on Nylander, don't you?

Matthews had only one ES assist against Florida, and Marner wasn't involved in that either, although he had a lot more ice time with Matthews.

At even strength (which you seemed to think was so much more important in previous posts), Marner had one goal, while Nylander had a goal and an assist. Twice as many points! In 10% less ES ice time (and a weaker centre)!

On the PP, which other people seem to think is also part of the game, Marner had 2 assists, and Nylander had a goal in roughly half the time, and with mostly the second unit.

You are just so focus on 1 serie without taking in consideration he had been trash 2 of last 3 series

Last year 4 of 7 game he didnt recorded a single point... and 1 of those 3 game we saw a little bit nylander it was when leafs already trailed 5-0 with game out of reach... he had been trash 5 of 7 game...

This season he was awful against tampa... was on the ice for over 50% of lightning even strenght goal. He was by far the worst even strenght player of both team...

He as better against florida but in a serie he should be best leafs foward ( whats you said) hes only get 2 goal and an assist... and you talked about him like he was fantastic in that serie... he was okay, nothing else

Marner played 15:25 min at event strenght vs 14:44, not enough to really have any impact ice time is not an excuse

And EVERYBODY is agree than Matthews and marner was not good enough in second round but its also where the problem is... when matthews/marner didnt lead the way, nobody doing it

Just name me 1 winning team whos unable to win when his 1st line didn't score? Normally when its happen because its sure its will happen a moment or an other, when you first line didnt scored, you need the rest of your team to step up...


Number of game last 2 season won by leafs when matthews/marner didn't scored? 0

 

[weems]

I saw speculation online that ROR did not enjoy his time here. I remember seeing that he was intending going to market but I didn’t see anything concrete about him not enjoying.

Does anyone remember a specific article or insider referencing this? Or is this speculation stretched in going to market?

Don't remember anything specific and this doesn't necessarily apply to ROR but Friedman did tweet that he spoke to someone on the team and something to the effect that the exit meetings were very rough and there was alot of criticism thrown at certain players/coaches.

Makes me wonder if some of the gritty vets that were added at the deadline came in and were stunned at the overall culture we have.

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

Don't remember anything specific and this doesn't necessarily apply to ROR but Friedman did tweet that he spoke to someone on the team and something to the effect that the exit meetings were very rough and there was alot of criticism thrown at certain players/coaches.

Makes me wonder if some of the gritty vets that were added at the deadline came in and were stunned at the overall culture we have.

Yeah I'm sure ROR, who scored a game tying goal in TB game 3 but was silent for most of the playoffs, thinks Matthews, who scored key goals in TB games 2 through 6, doesn't meet up to his standard.

I'm sure McCabe, who had never seen the playoffs before this year, was saying "my old team was alot better than this"

I'm sure Acciari, who was all in for coming back, thinks he's too good for this team, as does Lafferty, who did jack in the playoffs.

 

[weems]

Yeah I'm sure ROR, who scored a game tying goal in TB game 3 but was silent for most of the playoffs, thinks Matthews, who scored key goals in TB games 2 through 6, doesn't meet up to his standard.

I'm sure McCabe, who had never seen the playoffs before this year, was saying "my old team was alot better than this"

I'm sure Acciari, who was all in for coming back, thinks he's too good for this team, as does Lafferty, who did jack in the playoffs.

ROR has won a championship.

Are you saying he might not know what a winning culture looks like just because he didn't produce much offensively?

Do you think it's good that earlier in the season, Keefe called out his best players, then Mitch spoke up and said he "talked with Keefe" and then Boom Keefe walks back his comments a few days later.

These guys didn't have to actually produce much to be able to potentially see certain things behind the scenes that they might not like.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Yeah I'm sure ROR, who scored a game tying goal in TB game 3 but was silent for most of the playoffs, thinks Matthews, who scored key goals in TB games 2 through 6, doesn't meet up to his standard.

I'm sure McCabe, who had never seen the playoffs before this year, was saying "my old team was alot better than this"

I'm sure Acciari, who was all in for coming back, thinks he's too good for this team, as does Lafferty, who did jack in the playoffs.

That's not what he said at all.

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

ROR has won a championship.

Are you saying he might not know what a winning culture looks like just because he didn't produce much offensively?

Do you think it's good that earlier in the season, Keefe called out his best players, then Mitch spoke up and said he "talked with Keefe" and then Boom Keefe walks back his comments a few days later.

These guys didn't have to actually produce much to be able to potentially see certain things behind the scenes that they might not like.

Using a general statement to infer that a specific person made specific comments, then building an appeal to authority argument around words you put into that person's mouth... *chef's kiss*

We're done here

 

[andora]

Using a general statement to infer that a specific person made specific comments, then building an appeal to authority argument around words you put into that person's mouth... *chef's kiss*

We're done here

Your post before this one was an example of this post then as a learning lesson?

Why is it so unfathomable that players might not be impressed with our chosen ones

 

[hockeywiz542]

Nick Kypreos: The Leafs GM question is answered. Now it’s Auston Matthews’ turn

Like he did with Matthew Tkachuk, Treliving will quickly need to understand if Matthews’ heart is still in it when it comes to playing in Canada.

www.thestar.com

Don’t be surprised to hear veteran defenceman Mark Giordano contemplating retirement. He took some heavy hits during the final stretch of the season and his health obviously is at the forefront of his decision. Giordano has one year left on his contract that pays him $800K (U.S.). At age 39, his career earnings are at $62 million ...

Two top-calibre goalies who could be readily available by the NHL draft this June are Jeremy Swayman of Boston and Thatcher Demko of Vancouver. Unlike Demko, who has three years left, Swayman would need a new contract as a restricted free agent.

 

[LeafGrief]

Very meh about ROR. He's going to want a lot of dollars with too much term. He's a good player, but he's got typical bad contract written all over him. I'd only really be interested if we're retaining him as part of a leadership retooling of the team. Though if he wants out because he's not happy with our yahoos, I'm all the more intrigued. I'll keep hammering away at the fact that our biggest need is a complete leadership restructure.

Keep Kampf, he's a bottom sixer you win with. I was a longtime advocate of giving Bunting a big deal, but he played his way off the team due to his inability to control his own antics. I'd bridge him at most, if not outright wishing him luck elsewhere.

I'm sure Holl wants to stay, but he needs a fresh start somewhere else. He's been ridden hard and put away wet, completely destroyed any confidence he had, and most of his value came from chemistry with Muzzin. Now that Muzzin is done, Holl is a ship without an anchor and bleeds goals against. He'll get a pretty nice contract from some Western Conference team and will play 20 minutes a night for 2.5m, and will probably learn to love hockey again. Thanks for the good years, sorry about the bad years buddy. Good luck.

Kerfoot is a decent player, a nice swiss army knife who can chip in at any point. Great depth and affordable, but it's just not worth bringing him back when we so desperately need to facelift and adjust the culture of this team. Good luck elsewhere my dude, you were a good Leaf.

Wary of how much Schenn is going to want, but he is a very serviceable player. I hope he'll take something like 1.25m x 2y, but teams might be calling with better offers.

Murray is an LTIR candidate, otherwise we dump him. Samsonov is a good goalie, but I'm very wary of a Sammy-Woll tandem. That's a Dubas-special shoestring budget net. I'd really rather go after Hellebucyk if we can.

The most intriguing idea I've seen bounced around and agreed on in principle is Marner for Provorov and Konecny. Flyers fans say they'd rather rebuild than take Marner, but I'll leave the third team in a trade up to them.

Need a 3c and a LW who can score, and I don't know what to trade for Hellebucyk, but we're not in terrible shape. Orlov is an equally good option to Provorov, the main idea there is to secure that Muzzin replacement. That's offseason priority #2 after trading Marner.

 

[jiggy35]

Nylander for Hanifin swap + getting Orlov would make for a nice group.

Hanifin - Orlov
Rielly - Schenn
McCabe - Liljegren
Timmins

Updated roster on this premise:
Knies 0.9 - Matthews 11.6 - Killorn 5.0
Robertson 0.9 - Tavares 11.0 - Marner 10.6
Wood/UFA 1.5 - RoR 5.5 - Acciari 1.5
Lafferty 1.2 - Holmberg 0.8 - Jarnkrok 2.1
McMann/Marlie 0.8

Hanifin 4.9 - Orlov 6.0
Rielly 7.5 - Schenn 1.5
McCabe 2.0 - Liljegren 1.4
Timmins 1.1

Samsonov 3.5
Woll 0.8

Key moves:
Hanifin for Nylander
Brodie for draft picks
Orlov, Killorn primary UFA targets, returnees RoR and Acciari - the focus on bringing in veteran cup-winning talent was indeed and good move by Dubas, the vibe Treliving gives off kind of supports this. Looks like quite a mature team but still with young talent, opportunities for upgrades / adaptations across the season while still tight to the cap.

Feels balanced, especially the d pairs.