Post-Game Talk: 2023-2024 Leafs Roster/Changes/Turnovers & Replacement(s)

[Gabriel426]

Leafs are currently in the bottom 1/3 of the league amongst the oldest teams.

View attachment 713604

Leafs could use some youth and young players and hoping the new GM does go that route.

Youth doesn’t mean good or fast.

 

[notdoneyet]

If you eliminate the games Willie mailed in, it is pretty close. I always thought Marner > Nylander and I ripped Nylander when he came back out of shape after resigning but no denying the guy can and has scored some dynamic timely goals.

Either way, it will go a long way for Willie if he takes a discount because if he wants anything close to Marner numbers, he will be the first to go IMO.

Willy is a 40 goal scorer
If matthews gets 13-14 million
Do you think his agent will settle for 9
Cant see it
Another hold out coming up

 

[facelessjoe1990]

N

Willy is a 40 goal scorer
If matthews gets 13-14 million
Do you think his agent will settle for 9
Cant see it
Another hold out coming up

No he will just walk for nothing next year.

 

[613Leafer]

As much as I like Nylander and he's obviously been the best value of the "Core 4", I do think there are legit concerns about his next contract. 9M+? That's putting him in Point, Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Stone, Kaprizov, etc range. These guys are all legit franchise cornerstone players, which Nylander isn't.

The last two seasons are Nylander's best seasons, and he's 21st in points and 34th in points per game (minimum 100 games played) during that time. Beyond offence, he's not physical, isn't very good defensively, and doesn't play centre (which is the more premium position).

If he's signed to 9M+, I think the opinion of the fanbase on him could change pretty quickly. So while I have generally agreed that he isn't the guy to move, I think with only one year left on his deal, if his long-term deal is looking like that, he is a guy you strongly consider moving.

 

[notDatsyuk]

As much as I like Nylander and he's obviously been the best value of the "Core 4", I do think there are legit concerns about his next contract. 9M+? That's putting him in Point, Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Stone, Kaprizov, etc range. These guys are all legit franchise cornerstone players, which Nylander isn't.

The last two seasons are Nylander's best seasons, and he's 21st in points and 34th in points per game (minimum 100 games played) during that time. Beyond offence, he's not physical, isn't very good defensively, and doesn't play centre (which is the more premium position).

If he's signed to 9M+, I think the opinion of the fanbase on him could change pretty quickly. So while I have generally agreed that he isn't the guy to move, I think with only one year left on his deal, if his long-term deal is looking like that, he is a guy you strongly consider moving.

31st (tie) in PPG. He's also 19th in goals. He's 17th in ES goals and 25th in ES points, while only 26th in ES TOI (among forwards), 22nd in PP goals and 17th in PP points, while 19th in PP TOI.

Of the 20 players with more points, only one (Huberdeau) gets less ice time per game.com

Of the five you listed as comparable, three had more points and two had fewer, so I think that range isn't bad.

Among just right wingers, he's fifth in most offensive categories, behind (usually) Rantanen, Marner, Pastrnak (the only one with more GWG), and Kucherov, while being the only one playing on the second line. Their respective centres are MacKinnon, Matthews, Bergeron, Point, and Tavares (one of these is not like the others).

Having said all that, I think 8.5 - 9M is reasonable, but with Marner, and Matthews, and especially Tavares all being overpaid, I can see his agent justifying more.

 

[thusk]

31st (tie) in PPG. He's also 19th in goals. He's 17th in ES goals and 25th in ES points, while only 26th in ES TOI (among forwards), 22nd in PP goals and 17th in PP points, while 19th in PP TOI.

Of the 20 players with more points, only one (Huberdeau) gets less ice time per game.com

Of the five you listed as comparable, three had more points and two had fewer, so I think that range isn't bad.

Among just right wingers, he's fifth in most offensive categories, behind (usually) Rantanen, Marner, Pastrnak (the only one with more GWG), and Kucherov, while being the only one playing on the second line. Their respective centres are MacKinnon, Matthews, Bergeron, Point, and Tavares (one of these is not like the others).

Having said all that, I think 8.5 - 9M is reasonable, but with Marner, and Matthews, and especially Tavares all being overpaid, I can see his agent justifying more.

If we look at5v5 scoring by 60 minute played ( so took km condiderstiom ice time of everyome) with a least 70 game played last 2 season. Nylander is 48th in term of points and 49th in term of goal

Just as exemple
Marner is second in pts, 1st on primary assist and 60th on goal
Matthews 4th, 1st in goal

Both are much better defensivly

For me a good comparanle for Nylander should be Kevin Fiala, filip forsberg at 8-9M range

Eberything over 9M is overpay and anything over 10M, we reach Tavares island

 

[ToneDog]

If we look at5v5 scoring by 60 minute played ( so took km condiderstiom ice time of everyome) with a least 70 game played last 2 season. Nylander is 48th in term of points and 49th in term of goal

Just as exemple
Marner is second in pts, 1st on primary assist and 60th on goal
Matthews 4th, 1st in goal

Both are much better defensivly

For me a good comparanle for Nylander should be Kevin Fiala, filip forsberg at 8-9M range

Eberything over 9M is overpay and anything over 10M, we reach Tavares island

That is my thinking. At $9m you have to ask yourself, do I trase Willie or Mitch ? At 8+ the Leafs might choose to trade Marner. For what it is worth Burke says he would trade Nylander.

 

[rumman]

That is my thinking. At $9m you have to ask yourself, do I trase Willie or Mitch ? At 8+ the Leafs might choose to trade Marner. For what it is worth Burke says he would trade Nylander.

Why not trade both?

 

[ToneDog]

Why not trade both?

As Burke said, they have two urgent decisions to make. What to do with Matty and Mitch. They have more time to sign/trade Nylander because he has a 10 team NMC July 1st.

Matty wants to stay so he will sign. If he tells them he wants Mitch to stay, they probably grant him that.
Otherwise if they are going to trade Mitch, it needs to be done before hos NMC kicks in July 1st. If they can get that done, you can then look to move Willie.

I'd be open to moving both. The sample size is large enough to tell me they are never getting it done here.

 

[justashadowof]

If a new GM comes in and clears out just about every support player holding over from 2022-23, it would be a very strong signal to the core 4 (core 5 if we include Rielly) that THEY ARE the Toronto Maple Leafs. I could see a new GM not think much of several of these players like Jarnkrok, Lafferty, McCabe, Giordano (should retire), Timmins, Samsonov, Murray. It really wouldn't be too much of a shock half of those mentioned players also not returning.

 

[rumman]

As Burke said, they have two urgent decisions to make. What to do with Matty and Mitch. They have more time to sign/trade Nylander because he has a 10 team NMC July 1st.

Matty wants to stay so he will sign. If he tells them he wants Mitch to stay, they probably grant him that.
Otherwise if they are going to trade Mitch, it needs to be done before hos NMC kicks in July 1st. If they can get that done, you can then look to move Willie.

I'd be open to moving both. The sample size is large enough to tell me they are never getting it done here.

Personally I don’t give a f**k what Matty wants, that’s half the problem imo………

 

[ToneDog]

Personally I don’t give a f**k what Matty wants, that’s half the problem imo………

Tough call if he is half the problem. Every franchise player makes demands. If he wants Mitch to stay, he has to be willing to take a team friendly deal.

 

[ACC1224]

Personally I don’t give a f**k what Matty wants, that’s half the problem imo………

That's not reality though, every team does this.
Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Rielly all would have input into the team.

 

[rumman]

Tough call if he is half the problem. Every franchise player makes demands. If he wants Mitch to stay, he has to be willing to take a team friendly deal.

Illogical, turns one problem into two. IF you can get fair value they’d be nuts not to trade both Imo……..

That's not reality though, every team does this.
Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Rielly all would have input into the team.

I’m okay with input……players deciding who’s on the roster not so much…….

 

[ACC1224]

Illogical, turns one problem into two. IF you can get fair value they’d be nuts not to trade both Imo……..


I’m okay with input……players deciding who’s on the roster not so much…….

It's the world we live in.

 

[ULF_55]

If we look at5v5 scoring by 60 minute played ( so took km condiderstiom ice time of everyome) with a least 70 game played last 2 season. Nylander is 48th in term of points and 49th in term of goal.

Scoring in up, 48 players with more than 40 goals.

Sorry, I misread that. 13 players with more than 40 goals.

That sounds better.

6 players with more Even Strength goals.

Now it becoming clear.

I just think he should ask for a trade. Probably not a great return on a 1 year rental, but he's only a 2nd. liner.

Nylander
for
1st. rounder in the 10 - 20 ranger
2nd.
prospect.

 

[rumman]

It's the world we live in.

True that, but don’t hold your breathe waiting for the team to win a cup “in the world we live in……..”

 

[TMLAM34]

I think 8.5 million per is a fair deal for Nylander. However that probably won’t happen as he’s going to use Matthews, Marner and Tavares’ salaries as comparables. He’ll probably want 10 to stay in Toronto.

 

[ACC1224]

True that, but don’t hold your breathe waiting for the team to win a cup “in the world we live in……..”

Every team does it. Tkachuk is being hailed for it.

 

[rumman]

Every team does it. Tkachuk is being hailed for it.

There’s no right way to do the wrong thing………..

 

[ACC1224]

There’s no right way to do the wrong thing………..

It's different than how things use to be, doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong nor is it exclusive to the NHL.

 

[ULF_55]

Illogical, turns one problem into two. IF you can get fair value they’d be nuts not to trade both Imo……..


I’m okay with input……players deciding who’s on the roster not so much…….

Tkachuk just said he wasn't going to sign long term in Calgary, but was agreeable to being traded to an acceptable destination.

He didn't become GM or coach in Florida.

Matthews and Nylander could say the same thing in July.

If they're trying to dictate who the team signs and for how long none of the players have a leg to stand on. None of them have won anything to have that sort of power. They're more losers than winners, they certainly aren't Crosby.

 

[Apex Predator]

 

[thusk]

Scoring in up, 48 players with more than 40 goals.

Sorry, I misread that. 13 players with more than 40 goals.

That sounds better.

6 players with more Even Strength goals.

Now it becoming clear.

I just think he should ask for a trade. Probably not a great return on a 1 year rental, but he's only a 2nd. liner.

Nylander
for
1st. rounder in the 10 - 20 ranger
2nd.
prospect.

Nylander is 26th for number of 5v5 goal, big part of his even strenght goal came at 3v3 or 4v4... how much do you really want to spend on 3v3 or 4v4 stats


Last 2 season nylander had
40 5v5 goal
22 pp
12 3v3, 4v4 or 6v5 goal


In playoff only
1 5v5 goal
3 pp goal
3 4v4 or 6vs5 goal

Compare to marner
37 5v5 goal ( only 3 less than nylander with 11 game less player)
15 pp goal

Playoff
1 pp goal
4 5v5 goal

Matthews
64 5v5 goal
29 pp goal

Playoff
6 5v5 goal
2 pp goal

But im agree nylander would probably not brong a great return, maybe something around Devon Toews who also in a year conteact could make sense for both team...

Leafs upgrading d and get an other D who can bring offensive outside of rielly and avs get someone to replace landeskog offensivly

 

[geo25]

I watched Washington a lot by past year and sorry Ovechkin was worst than Matthews and marner right now. He was constantly cheating offensivly, never commit defensivly. The only thing he did is hitting and playing offensive until the year begore the stanley cup when he finally understand than he need to do something else to win in playoff. he finally understand it at 31...

Matthews probably want to see who is new gm, how hes working. In wich direction leafs going and its 100% normal.

I disagree. He is biding his time until the NMC kicks in then he is USA bound to the highest bidder....

Talent doesn’t always equal winning though. It takes a certain type of athlete to win when it counts. Some just don’t have it. These guys don’t seem to have it. Try something different

Will always beats skill in the playoffs