2023-2024 EPL Season
- Thread starter spintheblackcircle
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hatterson
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Chelsea *shouldn't* sign one coach, have him spend 200M and then fire him after 2 months.
They absolutely can though. And it wouldn't be *that* shocking to see it happen.
Savant
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gary69
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Don't the new owners have a bad record regarding purchases: bought Genoa, who were immediately relegated and then did the same with Hertha Berlin.
And now it's Everton's turn to suffer the same fate...
Savant
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Their fans tried to protest but they are kind of in the beggars can’t be choosers phase
KJS14
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VVD is still up there, but he's fallen off a good bit over the last 2 years. I'd have him behind all three that I mentioned at least. I think you can even argue he's behind guys like Gabriel, Botman, Konate, and Lisandro based on his form.
I don't find that too surprising for Chelsea given their forwards though. They have a bunch of guys that are poor finishers or unknowns. Nkunku probably fixes some of that when he's healthy, but I wouldn't bet on that forward group to start outperforming their xG anytime soon.
Duchene2MacKinnon
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hatterson
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Sure, but there's a difference between underperforming it and underperforming it by crazy margins.
They're on pace for 81xG and 38G. That would be nearly triple the highest xG underperformance for a team on record.
More likely their xG will come down a bit and their finishing will improve a bit. They may not end as the 4th best team in the league on xPts, but I think they're far more likely to end up with something roughly equal to a top 4/6 xPts compared to United and United also have their own finishing issues.
bluesfan94
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Especially when they mostly bought players between 17-23
Not really worth looking at when their schedule has been buns to start. Started with Liverpool, but then West Ham (who will probably give away the xG in like 37/38 matches because that’s just the way they play), and then nobodies. That they’ve finished so terribly so far against those sides leans more toward it’ll be something they struggle with all season than anything with a slight uptick with Nkunku coming back, unless someone really steps up.
KJS14
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That's fair - I hadn't looked at the actual numbers before responding to realize it was crazy low. It just directionally makes sense given their forwards, and I'd bet they underperform their xG on the season for that reason. Though I agree they can't possible keep that pace up.
Wee Baby Seamus
Yo, Goober, where's the meat?
It bears saying that, although Chelsea did indeed badly underperform their xG last year, their xG was also poor - the problem was moreso chance creation than it was finishing.
This year so far it’s finishing.
The former is a far bigger problem than the latter.
THAT SAID, underperforming xG against bad teams (as Chelsea have done) can come back to bite you very badly when the fixtures get tougher and you’re not creating many chances.
Chelsea have played (except against Bournemouth) very well to this point - I’m not worried about performances per se.
I’m worried about dropped points in matches that should be confidence builders when we will not be the better side in matches against better oppo.
This year so far it’s finishing.
The former is a far bigger problem than the latter.
THAT SAID, underperforming xG against bad teams (as Chelsea have done) can come back to bite you very badly when the fixtures get tougher and you’re not creating many chances.
Chelsea have played (except against Bournemouth) very well to this point - I’m not worried about performances per se.
I’m worried about dropped points in matches that should be confidence builders when we will not be the better side in matches against better oppo.
Savant
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Let’s see what he looks like when he is off suspension. VVD was still very good in 2021-2022. He’s lost a step but he is still top tier. Last year everyone was a problem, but he improved when they did the formation switch. Probably have to manage him a bit differently now but still think he is at the top or near the top of the league if the team is functioning.
If VVD and Ruben Dias were swapped, City are either the same or better and LFC would be significantly worse. Dias is a garbage man, he gets a lot of highlight time but it’s because he is just making a ton of desperation last man tackles. I think he is really overrated honestly. Think he is in the perfect team/situation for his skill set though. But again I kind of subscribe to the Maldini school of defending and Dias is the opposite of that.
Stones is great but he isn’t really playing as a VVD/Saliba center back/he’s doing a ton of work in midfield/RB hybrid kind of role thing. On form he is probably the best though. I know plenty of City fans who will say their best center back last year was Ake too. City have a bunch of great centerbacks but they also get to play with each other.
If Virgil drops quality wise again this season will revisit but as of now I’m only taking Saliba over him for PL
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KJS14
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Dias would certainly make Liverpool better, not worse. Just like Saliba, he's basically playing centerfield out there defending the entire center of the pitch by himself if City loses the ball and gets hit on the counter (with other defenders pushed wide or up the pitch). He doesn't have the passing ability of the other top guys, but he's likely the best pure defender.
And you can argue Stones is really playing midfield, but regardless he's a better player than VVD now and over the last 18 months. It's not like he hasn't played in a typical CB role at all during that time either.
Savant
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Dias absolutely does not make LFC better. He is very overrated and he is not a transformational defensive player like VVD or Saliba. He’s a nice player but he is not looking as good as he does for any team besides City; but he doesn’t have to and I am sure City is happy. City’s personnel makes things a lot easier on him. City should be happy with their guys, but again you put any of those guys on LFC and they do worse.
Duchene2MacKinnon
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I wouldnt put stones above him but there is other cbs ahead of VVD in the EPL. Before starting a fire storm I'll refrain from listing them but there's a few.
spintheblackcircle
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Duchene2MacKinnon
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He like many other Argentinan players said this after the Ecuador game. Not surprised he said this given Cuti is a big part of why Messi finally won something with the NT. And he ALWAYS brings it for his country. Plays on crappy team that isnt popular here so no one rates him.
Duchene2MacKinnon
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bluesfan94
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Romero is in that tier of very good but not elite guys along with people like Martinez, Zouma, Torres, Botman, Colwill, etc.
KJS14
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Well I said somewhere between 10 and 20, because I didn't actually go thru an entire list in my head. But I don't think that's a wild take.
Clearly above Romero (10): Dias, Stones, Ake, Akanji, Saliba, Gabriel, VVD, Konate, Thiago Silva, Botman
Same tier (7): Varane, Lisandro, Guehi, Schar, Dunk, Torres, Gvardiol (probably belongs above but put him here for now)
Duchene2MacKinnon
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KJS14
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