Prospect Info: 2023-2024 Coyotes Prospect General Discussion and Stats Weekly Update

[Jakey53]

I don’t have to Google Scott Stevens. I’m 38 years old. I remember. Haha.

I know you would know him and I replied you your post, but I mentioned Stevens because I thought many would not. I miss those type players, and the game in general.

 

[Jakey53]

The refs decided. And i my eyes they decided right.
Look at the replay and the slo mo.
And yes @rt Hockey is a contact Sport. But a concussion during brain development is the most dangerous thing that can happen. And it doesn't matter what the NCAA says or any Other league in the world. The scientific fact is that during this period even a slight concussion can lead to negative long-term effects.
And thats why you should be extra cautious. Its fine to Check, but do it right.

All this talk about "Players getting soft" is so outdated. Yes we all like the hitting, but we all know the effects of concussions on Players from the past. And present.
Its Not soft, trying to find a middle ground of both Sides. Especially for teenagers.

Players aren't getting soft, the leagues are and are scared of the consequences if someone gets hurt.

 

[Jakey53]

The hit wasn't late.
Whether concussions are bad or not is irrelevant to the play call.
The relative heights of Geekie and Schindler are also irrelevant.
The question should be - Did Geekie make contact with the head?

Of course he did. When there is that much height difference most times the head gets hit. It's easy to use slomo after the fact and decide if it's an illegal hit or not, but let's not forget hockey is a fast sport and Geekie or any other player doesn't have time to stop and take a tape measure out to decide if he should hit the player or not.

In the last 25 years it’s been in the US three times and in Canada 12 times.

What about the last 10 years I think would be a better gauge. Twenty five years ago hockey in the US was nowhere as popular as now. Let's not forget, hockey is Canada's game.

 

[Prarievarg]

Yes, in pro leagues that hit would pass as clean, but we've got to look at this tournament differently. We've got 17-year-olds fresh from junior leagues and 20-year-old pros with NHL games under their belts. That's a huge gap in experience and physical development. Strict rules are there for a reason. They keep everyone safe, especially the younger or less experienced players who might not be ready for that kind of physicality.

Without these protections, they risk not only injuries on young developing players but also limiting who feels they can safely compete. If they had rules similar to pro leagues, it might limit even more nations from competing. The tournament already struggles with a limited pool of participating countries.

I love pro hockey for its intensity and physicality, but these are young guys, still growing in the sport. Their safety and a level playing field matter more. Just my two cents.

 

[rt]

Of course he did. When there is that much height difference most times the head gets hit. It's easy to use slomo after the fact and decide if it's an illegal hit or not, but let's not forget hockey is a fast sport and Geekie or any other player doesn't have time to stop and take a tape measure out to decide if he should hit the player or not.


What about the last 10 years I think would be a better gauge. Twenty five years ago hockey in the US was nowhere as popular as now. Let's not forget, hockey is Canada's game.

Last ten years it’s been in the US one time and Canada six times.

 

[rt]

Yes, in pro leagues that hit would pass as clean, but we've got to look at this tournament differently. We've got 17-year-olds fresh from junior leagues and 20-year-old pros with NHL games under their belts. That's a huge gap in experience and physical development. Strict rules are there for a reason. They keep everyone safe, especially the younger or less experienced players who might not be ready for that kind of physicality.

That’s legal in the CHL, Jr.A. USHL and NCAA also. It’s a picture perfect clean body check. Ideally it would be used as an example to teach kids how to do it correctly.

Without these protections, they risk not only injuries on young developing players but also limiting who feels they can safely compete. If they had rules similar to pro leagues, it might limit even more nations from competing. The tournament already struggles with a limited pool of participating countries.

This is fantastical.

I love pro hockey for its intensity and physicality, but these are young guys, still growing in the sport. Their safety and a level playing field matter more. Just my two cents.

Every league 14 years and up allows body checks. This was a clean one. This is just a hockey play. Just as tackle football has tackles, hockey has checking. This is a clean check. Just as you would see in a high school game anywhere in America.

 

[rt]

I know you would know him and I replied you your post, but I mentioned Stevens because I thought many would not. I miss those type players, and the game in general.

This is where us being from different generations separates us a little bit. Stevens had a lot of highly predatory hits on highly vulnerable players that were very dangerous. Lots of uncalled charging, both in terms of strides and leaving the feet prior to contact and the head being the principal point of contact.

I loved Dallas Drake. But in hindsight almost every highlight was a major penalty. Haha.

I think many of the rules make sense. In Stevens prime, the game wasn’t called according to the rules and you got Kariya and Lindros. Not good.

Now, we’ve started seeing the game not being called by the rules again but in the other direction. Geekie’s hit was clean and to the letter of the law. The officials couldn’t stomach how violent it appeared and called penalties outside of the rules to ensure punishment for the result rather than the rules. Also not okay.

I like it right down the middle.

 

[Heldig]

Yes, in pro leagues that hit would pass as clean, but we've got to look at this tournament differently. We've got 17-year-olds fresh from junior leagues and 20-year-old pros with NHL games under their belts. That's a huge gap in experience and physical development. Strict rules are there for a reason. They keep everyone safe, especially the younger or less experienced players who might not be ready for that kind of physicality.

Without these protections, they risk not only injuries on young developing players but also limiting who feels they can safely compete. If they had rules similar to pro leagues, it might limit even more nations from competing. The tournament already struggles with a limited pool of participating countries.

I love pro hockey for its intensity and physicality, but these are young guys, still growing in the sport. Their safety and a level playing field matter more. Just my two cents.

In this case the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

Given it is the IIHF a 2 minute minor would have been appropriate.

 

[Prarievarg]

In this case the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

Given it is the IIHF a 2 minute minor would have been appropriate.

This I agree with

 

[Edenjung]

Players aren't getting soft, the leagues are and are scared of the consequences if someone gets hurt.

Well they realized the dangers and Long Term effects. And its a good thing that they wanna keep the Players healthy. That way they have a longer carrer and a good life afterwards.
Also the sport is getting way faster and with way more skill.
That also explains why hitting gets down. Same for fighting.
The Game changes. Thats not a bad thing.

 

[Kaizen]

Last ten years it’s been in the US one time and Canada six times.

The almighty dollar rules - the tournaments are located where the revenue can be maximized.

 

[Prarievarg]

That’s legal in the CHL, Jr.A. USHL and NCAA also. It’s a picture perfect clean body check. Ideally it would be used as an example to teach kids how to do it correctly.

Again, you have to acknowledge the difference in experience and maturity in these players. Some are pretty much grown up with nhl experience and some play in third tier or junior European leagues.

This is fantastical.

?

 

[hbk]

The almighty dollar rules - the tournaments are located where the revenue can be maximized.

I actually think Canada has a agreement where it gets the tournament every 2nd year.

 

[rt]

Again, you have to acknowledge the difference in experience and maturity in these players. .

No I don’t. It’s already been acknowledged that kids under 14 can’t body check and kids over 14 can. You need to acknowledge the reality that they’re old enough to hit and that was a perfect example of a great, clean hit that was entirely appropriate for their age group . If you have a problem with that, it’s a you problem. Reality is on my side. Hockey is a contact sport. 14 is the limit. These are 18-19 year olds. Adults. Not Peewees.

I actually think Canada has an agreement where it gets the tournament every 2nd year.

Rigged.

 

[rt]

Well they realized the dangers and Long Term effects. And its a good thing that they wanna keep the Players healthy. That way they have a longer carrer and a good life afterwards.
Also the sport is getting way faster and with way more skill.
That also explains why hitting gets down. Same for fighting.
The Game changes. Thats not a bad thing.

It’s a contact sport. Just like football. Soccer and basketball are not. You aren’t describing hockey. You are not talking about the game evolving. You’re talking about a fundamental bastardization of the game. You’re taking about warping it and twisting it into something that it fundamentally is not at its most basic level. And something that sucks. Hockey is a great game. Just as it is. You can keep soccer. It’s trash.

 

[hbk]

No I don’t. It’s already been acknowledged that kids under 14 can’t body check and kids over 14 can. You need to acknowledge the reality that they’re old enough to hit and that was a perfect example of a great, clean hit that was entirely appropriate for their age group . If you have a problem with that, it’s a you problem. Reality is on my side. Hockey is a contact sport. 14 is the limit. These are 18-19 year olds. Adults. Not Peewees.


Rigged.

tsn made the wjc matter. It became a holiday tradition. Believe me i attended the u18’s in grand forks that was attended by family and friends (and scouts).

 

[Jakey53]

Yes, in pro leagues that hit would pass as clean, but we've got to look at this tournament differently. We've got 17-year-olds fresh from junior leagues and 20-year-old pros with NHL games under their belts. That's a huge gap in experience and physical development. Strict rules are there for a reason. They keep everyone safe, especially the younger or less experienced players who might not be ready for that kind of physicality.

Without these protections, they risk not only injuries on young developing players but also limiting who feels they can safely compete. If they had rules similar to pro leagues, it might limit even more nations from competing. The tournament already struggles with a limited pool of participating countries.

I love pro hockey for its intensity and physicality, but these are young guys, still growing in the sport. Their safety and a level playing field matter more. Just my two cents.

Then maybe don't have any 20 yo kids. Change the age not the game.

 

[Jakey53]

This is where us being from different generations separates us a little bit. Stevens had a lot of highly predatory hits on highly vulnerable players that were very dangerous. Lots of uncalled charging, both in terms of strides and leaving the feet prior to contact and the head being the principal point of contact.

I loved Dallas Drake. But in hindsight almost every highlight was a major penalty. Haha.

I think many of the rules make sense. In Stevens prime, the game wasn’t called according to the rules and you got Kariya and Lindros. Not good.

Now, we’ve started seeing the game not being called by the rules again but in the other direction. Geekie’s hit was clean and to the letter of the law. The officials couldn’t stomach how violent it appeared and called penalties outside of the rules to ensure punishment for the result rather than the rules. Also not okay.

I like it right down the middle.

I'm fine with the NHL taming the game down from the wild west days, but only a bit. Now players don't hit, but do other infractions, like cross check in front of the net every chance they get which never gets called. Sticks are flying up around the head all the time. Sure helmets help but that's just as dangerous as a good legal hit. To ref hockey is a very hard job because of the speed of the game. Then you get to watch infractions in slomo and some hits look worse than they are.

tsn made the wjc matter. It became a holiday tradition. Believe me i attended the u18’s in grand forks that was attended by family and friends (and scouts).

Times change.

 

[Edenjung]

@rt the Sport getting more skillful than ever before is a bastardization?
Its still a full contact Sport. But it should still be as save as possible without taking away the contact. And i never Said that we should take away hitting.
And we will always have it.
I really don't get how you get so worked up about it.

 

[rt]

@rt the Sport getting more skillful than ever before is a bastardization?

No. Of course not. Why even ask that. Clearly that’s not what I’m saying, and I think you know that.

Removing checking is a bastardization. As I said. Plainly.

It’s still a full contact Sport. But it should still be as save as possible without taking away the contact. And i never Said that we should take away hitting.
And we will always have it.

Then I have no idea what you are suggesting. It sounds to me like you’re advocating switching to the U14 rules through U20. Which involves competitive contact rather than checking. I suspect you’re not clear on the difference. If you have a problem with the Geekie hit, you have a problem with checking. U14 hockey is still a very “rough” sport with plenty of contact. But it’s certainly not “full” contact. Which it sounds like you want to change.

I really don't get how you get so worked up about it.

Safety is an idol. With an ever growing number of cultists demanding we all make sacrifices in its name. I’m an American. I don’t take kindly.

 

[Edenjung]

Lets keep it at that shall we.
No need to spend any more time and Energy on this.

 

[rt]

Women’s international hockey is no-checking. And US v Canada women’s games are VERY rough. Go watch a Peewee championship game. It’s rough business. It’s also no-checking. Competitive contact is by definition NOT full contact. Which is the point.

Men’s hockey is full-contact. Which is just a euphemism for “violent”. That’s the nature of the game. It’s in the marrow of the game. Hall monitors should be prevented from changing it.

Lets keep it at that shall we.
No need to spend any more time and Energy on this.

No sweat. Happy new year!

How’s the little car doing? The one that kinda fell apart that you and your dad made a project of?

 

[Edenjung]

Oh my Golf?
Back then in 2022 i repaired it in 3 days. And its been fine since then. Had to do a lot of scrapyard diving for replacement parts. Funny enough, i found most parts at a scrapyard not that far away from the accident side.

I still have the folder with the pictures of the rebuild on google Drive.
So yeah that one is fine. And i am very happy with the Car. Thanks for asking.

But we took the time during the holidays to take care of my moms car and replaced the breaks, because it didn't Pass the inspection. The shop wanted 750€ (827,79$) to repair it (replace Break Discs, Pads, and get it in shape). I got the stuff for 180$ and we repaired it over the Last couple days.
Turns out the discs and Pads were still fine.
Changed them anyway. But its fishy.
And we always go to the shop. But for this they went too far.

Also hope you guys had a good start into the new year.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Some Year End Notes:

Prospect Offense having very good seasons:
WHL Offense Pts/G - Geekie - 4th - 1.88
NCAA Offense Pts/G - Lipkin - 10th - 1.22
USHL Offense Pts/G - Lutz - 12th - 1.21
KHL Offense U20 Pts/G - But - 4th - 0.46

Prospect Dmen having very good seasons:
Q Defense Pts/G - Lamoureux - 1st - 1.08
Q Defense Pts/G - Langlois - 4th - 0.94
WHL Defense Pts/G - Kipkie - 19th - 0.76

Roadrunners
- 2nd Place 1pt out of First
- 5gm winning streak
- 8/2 in their last 10 games
- Guenther leading the way with 28pts
- Doan leading in goals with 12

Overall the prospects are having the best year as a group for the Coyotes ever...great to see and hopefully even better in 2024.

 

[TheLegend]

Nothing definitive yet. Marek is speculating this is where these players are headed