2023-2024 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread

[Xerloris]

Pretty good compared to last year or pretty good for a 6.5 million $ dman?

Krug will never be pretty good for his price tag but compared to his play last year he's doing remarkably better this year. His defense has almost been not terrible.

 

[BlueDream]

Might be easier/better for Armstrong to do some bargain bin shopping on young players who are in the doghouse right now or aren't getting opportunities. Guys like Vrana and Kapanen come to mind as youngish guys we bought low on (one doing fine, the other a disappointment). I don't know the status of Berggren in Detroit, but he could be a type of player I see Armstrong inquiring about. Obviously wanted some scoring depth on the wings when he acquired Vrana, but Berggren may not come with the baggage. Broberg could also be a guy who's available that may be cheap. Frost doesn't mesh with Tortz and could be a guy on the move and Brannstrom is 4th on the depth chart for Ottawa. Those are the type of players I'd imagine Armstrong would bargain shop for, but whether or not those are his targets is up in the air right now.

If we are going to go bargain shopping though, Armstrong needs to envision an actual identity for this team and target players that fit it.

For example, one of the players you listed is Brannstrom. Hell no on that. The last thing we need is another undersized, buttersoft defenseman. We don’t need another Scott Perunovich. That would just be waving the white flag that we have no idea what to do on defense and are continuing to throw shit at the wall.

I just don’t want to pickup random players that don’t fit and end up with more Vrana situations. I want there to be an actual plan. The Panthers are a team that has had a lot of success with their pro scouting identifying players who need a change of scenery and many have broken out in Florida. But that’s also a team with structure and they know how they need to play. Would be nice to be more like them in that regard.

 

[Renard]

We have seen some very encouraging things since Bannister took over. Lets review the good.

Kessel has player some good hockey for a rookie. I think John Kelly said that Kessel has not had a minus game with the Blues.

Neighbors has been a solid contributor. He won't win the Hart Trophy, but I'll bet he has changed the minds of fans who thought Neighbors was a failed No. 1 draft choice.

Hofer has been good. His mistakes seem to be easily solved. I'm OK with seeing him dealt if we can get a good return. Seems a shame to have him stalled behind Binnington for years.

Toropchenko has been a useful 4th liner, good skater and hard hitter but doesn't take bad penalties.

Hayes is an asset. He is a decent all around player, versatile, good faceoff man.

I'm not a fan of Saad, but his game against Calgary changed my mind.



bl

 

[Brian39]

OK, fair points. Now flip it and point out all the overachievers and state how that might not continue.

My point here: it's always easy to point to the underachievers and say they could turn it around, things could get even better. More difficult to look at the overachievers and say whoa, they might tail off, things could get worse.

For sure.

But we don't need to win 70% of the games against top 10 teams to win a round in the playoffs. We can noticeably regress as a team from the results we've gotten under Bannister and still win a playoff round against a damn good team. I think there is a reasonable argument that there is enough positive regression to offset the negative regression. That, combined with a 15-20% reduction in the 'luck' that's banked us some points would put us right around .500 vs good teams instead of .750. That is good enough to be more than cannon fodder who have no chance to do anything but pocket 2 games of home playoff revenue.

And that's the thing with this team: even after 17 games under Bannister, there's no sign that everything is starting to fall into place and this team is about to catch fire. Through 46 games, you're getting a pretty decent signal of what a team is and who guys are and what they're going to do for the season; I'm really hard pressed to see where this team claws its way up the standings, gets into the playoffs, and scares the dickens out of the top teams from Game 83 on.

I really disagree about not seeing signs of things falling into place. We aren't close to 'things have clicked into place' but I have seen a lot of movement toward that direction.

We are 10th in the league in goals against per game since Bannister took over. We were 23rd under Berube. (2.89 vs 3.32)

The PK is almost identical (77.8% under Bannister vs 78.5% under Berube) but the PP has gone from 31st to 9th (8.4% vs 23.5%).

We're still allowing too many shots, but it has at least dropped a touch (32.4 vs 31.1 per game).

The underlying metrics at 5 on 5 haven't shown much/any improvement. On pure eye test, I'm seeing a team that is playing better overall team defense. It isn't translating to sustained offensive pressure and we still get hemmed in too often. I wouldn't say we are a good (or average) defensive team. But I'm seeing noticeably fewer extremely high danger plays than the final 100 or so games under Berube. The advanced stats say that we are allowing about 1 fewer high danger chance per 60 at 5 on 5 than we were under Berube and I do think that the strength of schedule should be considered.

We have played a much, much tougher schedule under Bannister than Berube. We were 2-5-1 against current top 10 teams under Berube. 7-2-1 under Bannister. I can't look at those and say that it is all good luck and the fact that we have played more good teams in significantly fewer games just has to be taken into consideration. I think the 'real' Blues are in the middle of those numbers.

Again, I'm not saying that this team is a top 10 team under Bannister. But I think there are signs pointing to this team being genuinely middle of the pack and able to actually compete with good teams in the playoffs. That almost never translates to more than a single winning round and often ends in a 1st round lost. I don't see us being that team that 'no division winner wants to see' in the 1st round, but division winners lose to other Wild Card teams all the time.

In 2022, it was painfully obvious that Nashville had no chance against Colorado. Everyone said that the Preds were simply there to collect 2 games of playoff revenue and the series proved everyone right. That is how I felt about a Blues team sneaking into the playoffs the way they were playing under Berube earlier this year. I've seen enough under Bannister to see signs that this team could be closer to the 2023 Kraken against Colorado. They were better stylistically, but I'd take our goaltending over theirs 100 times out of 100. I'm not convinced that being the 2023 Kraken is worth buying or passing up good seller prices at the deadline, but I do think that it needs to be factored in to the equation.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Kessel has player some good hockey for a rookie. I think John Kelly said that Kessel has not had a minus game with the Blues.

This is true. He is +1 through 11 games ... which means, he's either not been on the ice for a lot of goals against, or what he is on the ice for against, he makes up for it by being on when the Blues score.

Which is it? In 178:33 of even-strength ice time (181:07 total), Kessel has been on the ice for a grand total of 3 goals - 2 for, 1 against. For perspective, Tyler Tucker in 15 games had 183:30 ESTOI and was out for 13 GF, 12 GA.

 

[jura]

 

[542365]

This is true. He is +1 through 11 games ... which means, he's either not been on the ice for a lot of goals against, or what he is on the ice for against, he makes up for it by being on when the Blues score.

Which is it? In 178:33 of even-strength ice time (181:07 total), Kessel has been on the ice for a grand total of 3 goals - 2 for, 1 against. For perspective, Tyler Tucker in 15 games had 183:30 ESTOI and was out for 13 GF, 12 GA.

That's almost certainly a product of luck and small sample size, but low event hockey from your bottom pair is incredibly valuable. I'd love if he just stayed the type of Dman where nothing happened when he was out there.

 

[wiscrev]

Kessel looked really good last night. Calm, steady, with good checks.

 

[HighNote]

Kessel looked really good last night. Calm, steady, with good checks.

I agree, except for that ugly turnover with like 7-8 minutes left in the game.

 

[wiscrev]

I agree, except for that ugly turnover with like 7-8 minutes left in the game.

I don't disagree with that but he did make up for it with 1-2 nice assists.

 

[AVictoryDive]

I don't disagree with that but he did make up for it with 1-2 nice assists.

I’m guessing you mean passes because in 12 games with the Blues this season he doesn’t have a point.

 

[wiscrev]

I’m guessing you mean passes because in 12 games with the Blues this season he doesn’t have a point.

My bad, I thought he had at least one assist last night.

 

[Xerloris]

I agree, except for that ugly turnover with like 7-8 minutes left in the game.

It was a turnover but I've seen way worse turn overs and just off the top of my head, one of them was by Edmundson in the cup finals.

 

[execwrite1]

How about, next year -

Buchnevich. Thomas Kyrou
Saad Schenn. Neighbours
Bolduc Duchene (FA) Snuggerud
Hayes. Sundqvist. Toropchenko

 

[kimzey59]

How about, next year -

Buchnevich. Thomas Kyrou
Saad Schenn. Neighbours
Bolduc Duchene (FA) Snuggerud
Hayes. Sundqvist. Toropchenko

1- How about let's see what Army does at the Trade Deadline before speculating on UFA signings?
I wouldn't be even remotely surprised to see Army pull off a surprise big move.

2- IMO the chances of Bolduc and Snuggles starting on the same line are slim and none.
Way too much youth on one line.

 

[jjniner]

My belief is we are in dire need of a number 2 center

Saad on your second line.. no bueño

 

[Mike Liut]

My belief is we are in dire need of a number 2 center

Saad on your second line.. no bueño

if we had a legit #2 center and #1 LD, we’d be a legit contender if this parity ridden league.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

Solve that along with the influx of youth we're about to see and it would appear we'll be in pretty good shape 2-3 seasons down the line.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

if we had a legit #2 center and #1 LD, we’d be a legit contender if this parity ridden league.

#2C is a bigger issue imo. Schenn's recent good play shows what it looks like to have TWO good lines

 

[Mike Liut]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Army is active this off-season and upgrades the team. Tanking isnt in the Blues organizations blood.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Army is active this off-season and upgrades the team. Tanking isnt in the Blues organizations blood.

It's not in Army's blood either. Armstrong's teams have only missed the playoffs three times in 19 seasons and two of those losing seasons were his first after taking over a team.

Doug likes to compete.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Army is active this off-season and upgrades the team. Tanking isnt in the Blues organizations blood.

some recent picks show that, in most drafts, value can be found with less than top 10 picks:

Dvorksy #10
Snuggerud #23
Bolduc #17
Neighbors #26
Bokk #25
Thomas #20
Kostin #31
Fabbri #21

 

[kimzey59]

My belief is we are in dire need of a number 2 center

Saad on your second line.. no bueño

Not saying I disagree, but those two thoughts don't exactly jive.

Saad is a winger. What does dropping him in the lineup have to do with the C position?
Or did you mean Schenn?

Personally, I don't think either of them is a legit 2nd liner anymore.
IMO the 2nd line as a whole needs a revamp. The only one who actually belongs there is Neighbours.

If it's me, I look to revamp the 2nd line around Neighbours and use Saad and Schenn as the veteran mentors for Snuggles.

 

[ezcreepin]

If we are going to go bargain shopping though, Armstrong needs to envision an actual identity for this team and target players that fit it.

For example, one of the players you listed is Brannstrom. Hell no on that. The last thing we need is another undersized, buttersoft defenseman. We don’t need another Scott Perunovich. That would just be waving the white flag that we have no idea what to do on defense and are continuing to throw shit at the wall.

I just don’t want to pickup random players that don’t fit and end up with more Vrana situations. I want there to be an actual plan. The Panthers are a team that has had a lot of success with their pro scouting identifying players who need a change of scenery and many have broken out in Florida. But that’s also a team with structure and they know how they need to play. Would be nice to be more like them in that regard.

I'm not going to disagree there, just bringing up some players that don't seem to fit on the team they're on currently and could be had for cheap. I'm interested in Berggren, maybe Broberg if he's cheap, but those are the types of players you're going to have to target unless a random young, talented player is available like Fiala. And yea I agree about Florida, they have taken on a lot of random players and turned them into contributors for that team ie Verhaeghe, Duclair, Bennett and Montour to lesser extents.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Perunovich now has 10 points in his last 14 games.