2023-2024 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread

[bleedblue1223]

all of the above? i could see him hiring bannister because he likes how the team is playing and guys are developing, even while he doubts that bannister is guy who will be our coach when we are contenders again. and i think we will add some (likely low cost) vets bext year bc we don't want to force dvo and snuggy and bolduc into roles they aren't ready for. hopefully the adds will be more like sunny and less like vrana though. regardless, i can't see next year's team being much better than this year's and i think army sees that too.

Will the adds be more like Sunny where it's a short-term and low investment, or will he look to make a Buchnevich type trade or try and acquire a vet that has genuine 2nd line upside. I could see Army going the low investment approach and waiting for the prospects before making bigger moves. I could also see the mentality of, we have 3 1st line forward in Thomas/Buchnevich/Kyrou, a defender in Parayko who is playing some of his best hockey, and a quality goalie tandem. Neighbours seems to be hitting that next level, if Schenn can continue to find his game, you are maybe another 2nd line forward away from having some quality secondary scoring, and whatever Snuggerud brings is gravy.

When Berube was fired, this team was looking like a lost cause for this season and next, and I'm curious what Army thinks about for next season.

 

[ezcreepin]

Will the adds be more like Sunny where it's a short-term and low investment, or will he look to make a Buchnevich type trade or try and acquire a vet that has genuine 2nd line upside. I could see Army going the low investment approach and waiting for the prospects before making bigger moves. I could also see the mentality of, we have 3 1st line forward in Thomas/Buchnevich/Kyrou, a defender in Parayko who is playing some of his best hockey, and a quality goalie tandem. Neighbours seems to be hitting that next level, if Schenn can continue to find his game, you are maybe another 2nd line forward away from having some quality secondary scoring, and whatever Snuggerud brings is gravy.

When Berube was fired, this team was looking like a lost cause for this season and next, and I'm curious what Army thinks about for next season.

Might be easier/better for Armstrong to do some bargain bin shopping on young players who are in the doghouse right now or aren't getting opportunities. Guys like Vrana and Kapanen come to mind as youngish guys we bought low on (one doing fine, the other a disappointment). I don't know the status of Berggren in Detroit, but he could be a type of player I see Armstrong inquiring about. Obviously wanted some scoring depth on the wings when he acquired Vrana, but Berggren may not come with the baggage. Broberg could also be a guy who's available that may be cheap. Frost doesn't mesh with Tortz and could be a guy on the move and Brannstrom is 4th on the depth chart for Ottawa. Those are the type of players I'd imagine Armstrong would bargain shop for, but whether or not those are his targets is up in the air right now.

 

[AyeBah]

So much Sanheim talk here but even if he was on the team, there's still no 2nd or 3rd line. The defense is still a mess. Maybe Sanheim gets them in a wild card spot but this team still isn't winning a round either way

 

[Reality Czech]

So much Sanheim talk here but even if he was on the team, there's still no 2nd or 3rd line. The defense is still a mess. Maybe Sanheim gets them in a wild card spot but this team still isn't winning a round either way

How dare you belittle the great unstoppable force that is Travis Sanheim!

 

[Renard]

all of the above? i could see him hiring bannister because he likes how the team is playing and guys are developing, even while he doubts that bannister is guy who will be our coach when we are contenders again. and i think we will add some (likely low cost) vets bext year bc we don't want to force dvo and snuggy and bolduc into roles they aren't ready for. hopefully the adds will be more like sunny and less like vrana though. regardless, i can't see next year's team being much better than this year's and i think army sees that too.

Winning against Vancouver is quite the accomplishment. The Canuks were rested, the Blues were a tired team. And we used our back up goalie.

I only watched half of the first period and the Blues were being badly outplayed. We had almost no time in the Vancouver zone.

When I saw the final this morning, I was pleasantly surprised.

 

[Frenzy31]

Stupid late start times for those of us on EST. I just can’t stay up the way I used too. Getting older and more responsibilities sucks.

 

[Majorityof1]

So much Sanheim talk here but even if he was on the team, there's still no 2nd or 3rd line. The defense is still a mess. Maybe Sanheim gets them in a wild card spot but this team still isn't winning a round either way

There are 3 things we need to address to become a contender. There is no one move we can make to address them all. So let's just do nothing and suck.

Why fix an issue with one move, then fix the others with subsequent moves? That's crazy talk. There's no reason to get better if you can't get all the way to perfect in one go.

 

[AyeBah]

There are 3 things we need to address to become a contender. There is no one move we can make to address them all. So let's just do nothing and suck.

Why fix an issue with one move, then fix the others with subsequent moves? That's crazy talk. There's no reason to get better if you can't get all the way to perfect in one go.

Well that trade didn't happen and it's never going to. Krug is somehow worse than he was then and Sanheim is having a career year. Trade got nixed lets move on

 

[ArenaRat]

Interesting tidbit on the latest 32 Thoughts podcast.. Freidman said that prior to becoming the Isles' coach, Patrick Roy was on DA's radar. After his sudden departure in his first coaching stint, he was apparently untouchable for several years. He got no calls for interviews, to his own surprise. Sounds like the experience humbled him to a degree, and Lou Lamorello wasn't the only GM thinking the time might be right for a return. Who can say where it would have led, but interesting to note that the Blues are casting a wide net in their search.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Yeah, I saw that too. While, Roy has NHL experience, this might not be the case, but I do find it interesting that we are potentially looking at coaches from juniors. With a rebuild in progress and prospects coming, I do think it makes sense to have a coach with experience working with that generation and young players in general.

 

[bleedblue1223]

And I'm sure we've had some amount of contact over the years with him coaching Bolduc, so I don't doubt that he was on our list of possibilities.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Winning against Vancouver is quite the accomplishment. The Canuks were rested, the Blues were a tired team. And we used our back up goalie.

And they used their backup goalie.

 

[Brian39]

And suddenly the Blues have the 8th best points percentage in the West. We're 1 point back of Nashville with a game in hand for the final Wild Card spot. The NHL's standings page has us each at a .543 points percentage, but ours is higher if you go another decimal place (.5434 vs .5425). If the season was shut down today like it was in 2019/20, the Blues would be the 8 seed. Nashville and Arizona each have a game tonight, then we play Seattle tomorrow. By the end of the night Friday, we could be anywhere from 8th to 11th in the West.

What looked like just a lone Wild Card opening is starting to look like two spots up for grabs. LA seems bound and determined to throw away their great start to the season. They are now 2-7-5 in their last 14 games. They were banking a lot of loser points to tread water early in that skid, but now they are 1-3-1 in their last 5. That includes a shootout loss to San Jose and a regulation loss to Buffalo. Their next 4 games are Colorado (in Denver), St. Louis, Nashville, and Edmonton. No one is better than Colorado on home ice this year and then those next 3 games are against their 3 closest opponents in the standings. They have a couple games in hand, but they could very well find themselves on the outside looking in just a few days from now.

I know plenty of people aren't going to want to hear it, but the Blues are squarely a bubble team as we sit here on 1/25/24. And we just beat the team who is currently 1st in the league (and winning the season series in the process).

Since Bannister took over, the team is 11-6-1 with wins against the #1 (twice), #5, #6 (twice), #8, and #9 teams in the league standings. All in all, we are 7-2-1 against teams who are current top 10 teams in the league and only 1 of those losses was by multiple goals. We have had some awful games under Bannister and the goalies have been very good. I have a hard time saying these outcomes are sustainable and I don't believe that this success against good teams will translate to playoff success when the good teams are fully dialed in.

But it is getting harder and harder to keep proclaiming that this team is a lock to get throttled in the opening round of a playoff series if we get there. This team has been bringing it against rosters that are noticeably better than ours. We know that Binner has the ability to steal games in the playoffs. We just won the season series against Vancouver. We are 2-0-1 against Dallas. For all this team's flaws defensively, we are the only team in the league that appears to have figured out a way to hold MacKinnon somewhat in check. He hasn't scored a regular season goal against us since the 2020/21 COVID season and we held him without a goal in 5 of the 6 playoff games in 2022. Winnipeg has handled us in our 2 games this year, but I'm not 100% sold on them looking this good by/in the playoffs.

I absolutely wouldn't bet on the Blues with anything close to even odds against any of these potential 1st round opponents, but given our play against these teams (and good teams in general) under Bannister this season, I'm having a hard time buying into the notion that we simply couldn't win a round (or even 2). I still think that this team should sell and I don't at all believe that we have it in us to win 4 rounds. But I think the deadline math needs to at least take into consideration that this team could plausibly play 5+ home playoff games this year.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

We just need a middle six scoring winger and a top 4 LHD Come on down Chabot and Tarasenko..... I'm joking.

 

[bleedblue1223]

If we continue to push for a playoff spot, I wouldn't be opposed to Army buying, if it's a piece with term. Maybe it actually puts us in position for Hanifin. Maybe a Middlestadt is actually made available or Zegras.

In general, treat it like that season under Murray where we got in and lost to Vancouver. Take a glass half full approach that the group responded well to Army's words when Berube was fired.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I think, as was pointed out a couple of games ago, this team is getting really lucky picking up points given what teh analytics say we should be doing and given the set of circumstances we've seen in some of these games. Vancouver's backup. Boston goes through the motions. Colorado goes through the motions. Teams missing guys. There are a lot of things that have broken our way that, on a normal night, wouldn't break that way.

Put it another way: you look at this team, how confident is everyone in saying "yeah, and this team still has a gear or two it can shift up into and play even better?" I think it's pretty much maxing out what it can do, and for the gain it might still be able to achieve there's a lot of room to fall off from here and a higher chance of falling off happening.

 

[bleedblue1223]

A lot depends on what we get out of the Schenn line. If Schenn has genuinely found his game and isn't just simply on a hot streak and he'll go back to not scoring, then this team can defintely push for a wild card spot. The top line is producing like a genuine top line. Binnington and Hofer aren't winning the Vezina, but they both have a postive Goals Saved Above Average, so both of them are giving us quality starts consistently. Parayko and Leddy are playing really good hockey.

If we get better play out of some of the other defensive pairs, and consistent secondary scoring, then there's no reason why we can't compete with Nashville, Minnesota, Arizona, LA, Seattle, or Calgary down the stretch. All of these teams are flawed, and 2 of them will make the playoffs.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I wanted to make a post on Kessel since a previous post seemed to create some controversy about how being low-event isn't really much of a good thing like old-school eye tests used to think.

The issue is really more sample size, and evaluating dmen this early in either direction isn't really reliable. His 5v5 on-ice shooting % is 3.64% and his on-ice sv% is 98.57%. And that's really meant to highlight that he needs more minutes for his underlying metrics to mean that much, and for his eye-test to mean much.

He's played 11 games, and is actually being trusted to play sizable minutes in some of those. I'm not sure I'm ready to say he's a diamond in the rough in the 5th round, but he also done nothing for me to no longer have the optimism than I had for him when he was in college.

 

[wiscrev]

So much Sanheim talk here but even if he was on the team, there's still no 2nd or 3rd line. The defense is still a mess. Maybe Sanheim gets them in a wild card spot but this team still isn't winning a round either way

On paper probably, but you still have to play the games and anything can happen. I'll be many thought we didn't have a snowball's chance in '19? JMHO

 

[Frenzy31]

I wanted to make a post on Kessel since a previous post seemed to create some controversy about how being low-event isn't really much of a good thing like old-school eye tests used to think.

The issue is really more sample size, and evaluating dmen this early in either direction isn't really reliable. His 5v5 on-ice shooting % is 3.64% and his on-ice sv% is 98.57%. And that's really meant to highlight that he needs more minutes for his underlying metrics to mean that much, and for his eye-test to mean much.

He's played 11 games, and is actually being trusted to play sizable minutes in some of those. I'm not sure I'm ready to say he's a diamond in the rough in the 5th round, but he also done nothing for me to no longer have the optimism than I had for him when he was in college.

For a 5th round pick, you are happy to get a bottom pairing 7. He was very good college and I think people wrote him off last year, because he wasn't producing at a high rate, expected out of an offensive first guy - but he was 5+28 over 71 games.

Right now, I feel like he is making good plays, his north south passing is solid. Offense will come. He is getting more comfortable. I think we all said upside of a number 4. And that seems to be his projection. He turned 23 this past summer so, I am glad he is breaking in. Clearly is more favored at this point then Tucker, Perunovich, and maybe even Scandella. And he has more ice time than those 3. Granted Faulk is back so that might lose a little.

 

[Brian39]

I think, as was pointed out a couple of games ago, this team is getting really lucky picking up points given what teh analytics say we should be doing and given the set of circumstances we've seen in some of these games....

Put it another way: you look at this team, how confident is everyone in saying "yeah, and this team still has a gear or two it can shift up into and play even better?" I think it's pretty much maxing out what it can do, and for the gain it might still be able to achieve there's a lot of room to fall off from here and a higher chance of falling off happening.

I think Schenn is capable of more than the 4 goals, 4 assists, and -5 he's put up in 18 games under Bannister.

I think Faulk has played his worst hockey of the season under Bannister (especially since he returned from injury). Maybe that is a stylistic issue, but I could absolutely see him being better than the guy we've gotten the last 5 weeks or so.

Blais has been awful this season, but I've seen him elevate his game for 20 game stretches multiple times in his career.

Saad hasn't been particularly good this year. He may have just permanently lost a step, but he very well might have been slumping/battling something and have a better 2nd half of the season. And at his age, it wouldn't remotely surprise me if he is like many vets who have to pace themselves over 82 games but still have another couple gears in the playoffs.

Kapanen hasn't found a ton of success all season, but I think he's contributing slightly less under Bannister than he was under Berube. he's shooting 6% on the season, so he's due for some pucks to go in even without an improvement in shot/chance generation.

I wouldn't be remotely surprised if Snuggy is capable of a contribution similar to what Knies brought straight out of the NCAA last season.

I am fairly confident that Binner can outplay the .904 he's put up under Bannister so far. I've seen him do it in the playoffs a couple times.

I largely agree that we've earned more wins than we deserve as a team. And again, I want to stress that I wouldn't bet on the Blues with even odds. I don't think this team is a sleeping giant. But I also don't think that we are seeing this team at its max. We have a number of guys noticeably underperforming the max end we've seen from them in pretty damn recent memory and we have a damn good prospect that very well might offer a partial solution to our lack of 3rd line scoring this year if we are in the hunt.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I think Schenn is capable of more than the 4 goals, 4 assists, and -5 he's put up in 18 games under Bannister.

I think Faulk has played his worst hockey of the season under Bannister (especially since he returned from injury). Maybe that is a stylistic issue, but I could absolutely see him being better than the guy we've gotten the last 5 weeks or so.

Blais has been awful this season, but I've seen him elevate his game for 20 game stretches multiple times in his career.

Saad hasn't been particularly good this year. He may have just permanently lost a step, but he very well might have been slumping/battling something and have a better 2nd half of the season. And at his age, it wouldn't remotely surprise me if he is like many vets who have to pace themselves over 82 games but still have another couple gears in the playoffs.

Kapanen hasn't found a ton of success all season, but I think he's contributing slightly less under Bannister than he was under Berube. he's shooting 6% on the season, so he's due for some pucks to go in even without an improvement in shot/chance generation.

I wouldn't be remotely surprised if Snuggy is capable of a contribution similar to what Knies brought straight out of the NCAA last season.

I am fairly confident that Binner can outplay the .904 he's put up under Bannister so far. I've seen him do it in the playoffs a couple times.

I largely agree that we've earned more wins than we deserve as a team. And again, I want to stress that I wouldn't bet on the Blues with even odds. I don't think this team is a sleeping giant. But I also don't think that we are seeing this team at its max. We have a number of guys noticeably underperforming the max end we've seen from them in pretty damn recent memory and we have a damn good prospect that very well might offer a partial solution to our lack of 3rd line scoring this year if we are in the hunt.

OK, fair points. Now flip it and point out all the overachievers and state how that might not continue.

My point here: it's always easy to point to the underachievers and say they could turn it around, things could get even better. More difficult to look at the overachievers and say whoa, they might tail off, things could get worse. And that's the thing with this team: even after 17 games under Bannister, there's no sign that everything is starting to fall into place and this team is about to catch fire. Through 46 games, you're getting a pretty decent signal of what a team is and who guys are and what they're going to do for the season; I'm really hard pressed to see where this team claws its way up the standings, gets into the playoffs, and scares the dickens out of the top teams from Game 83 on.

 

[LogosBlue]

OK, fair points. Now flip it and point out all the overachievers and state how that might not continue.

My point here: it's always easy to point to the underachievers and say they could turn it around, things could get even better. More difficult to look at the overachievers and say whoa, they might tail off, things could get worse. And that's the thing with this team: even after 17 games under Bannister, there's no sign that everything is starting to fall into place and this team is about to catch fire. Through 46 games, you're getting a pretty decent signal of what a team is and who guys are and what they're going to do for the season; I'm really hard pressed to see where this team claws its way up the standings, gets into the playoffs, and scares the dickens out of the top teams from Game 83 on.

This team is exactly what I thought it would be. Good enough to compete for a playoff spot but falling just short in the end. Not much surprise. Right smack dab in the middle of mediocrity. Given some puck luck, we could make the playoffs and a couple injuries could have us picking in the lottery. Overall, I think they have won more games than i expected.

Thomas, Parayko and Binner are the bright spots for the season. The first two have been consistently good game in and game out and Binner has stolen several points on his own this season. He may have a .904 average but has really shined in quite a few games.

I've also really liked Saad's and Neighbors game overall. Sure, Saad might be slowing down a little but man is he one heck of a two-way secondary scoring top 6. That was a heck of a feed from Neighbors last game. I'd like to see that continue.

Toropchenko is continuing to grow as a good bottom 6 guy as well. Love the energy and drive.

 

[Xerloris]

Well that trade didn't happen and it's never going to. Krug is somehow worse than he was then and Sanheim is having a career year. Trade got nixed lets move on

Krug has been pretty good this year. What games are you watching?

And suddenly the Blues have the 8th best points percentage in the West. We're 1 point back of Nashville with a game in hand for the final Wild Card spot. The NHL's standings page has us each at a .543 points percentage, but ours is higher if you go another decimal place (.5434 vs .5425). If the season was shut down today like it was in 2019/20, the Blues would be the 8 seed. Nashville and Arizona each have a game tonight, then we play Seattle tomorrow. By the end of the night Friday, we could be anywhere from 8th to 11th in the West.

What looked like just a lone Wild Card opening is starting to look like two spots up for grabs. LA seems bound and determined to throw away their great start to the season. They are now 2-7-5 in their last 14 games. They were banking a lot of loser points to tread water early in that skid, but now they are 1-3-1 in their last 5. That includes a shootout loss to San Jose and a regulation loss to Buffalo. Their next 4 games are Colorado (in Denver), St. Louis, Nashville, and Edmonton. No one is better than Colorado on home ice this year and then those next 3 games are against their 3 closest opponents in the standings. They have a couple games in hand, but they could very well find themselves on the outside looking in just a few days from now.

I know plenty of people aren't going to want to hear it, but the Blues are squarely a bubble team as we sit here on 1/25/24. And we just beat the team who is currently 1st in the league (and winning the season series in the process).

Since Bannister took over, the team is 11-6-1 with wins against the #1 (twice), #5, #6 (twice), #8, and #9 teams in the league standings. All in all, we are 7-2-1 against teams who are current top 10 teams in the league and only 1 of those losses was by multiple goals. We have had some awful games under Bannister and the goalies have been very good. I have a hard time saying these outcomes are sustainable and I don't believe that this success against good teams will translate to playoff success when the good teams are fully dialed in.

But it is getting harder and harder to keep proclaiming that this team is a lock to get throttled in the opening round of a playoff series if we get there. This team has been bringing it against rosters that are noticeably better than ours. We know that Binner has the ability to steal games in the playoffs. We just won the season series against Vancouver. We are 2-0-1 against Dallas. For all this team's flaws defensively, we are the only team in the league that appears to have figured out a way to hold MacKinnon somewhat in check. He hasn't scored a regular season goal against us since the 2020/21 COVID season and we held him without a goal in 5 of the 6 playoff games in 2022. Winnipeg has handled us in our 2 games this year, but I'm not 100% sold on them looking this good by/in the playoffs.

I absolutely wouldn't bet on the Blues with anything close to even odds against any of these potential 1st round opponents, but given our play against these teams (and good teams in general) under Bannister this season, I'm having a hard time buying into the notion that we simply couldn't win a round (or even 2). I still think that this team should sell and I don't at all believe that we have it in us to win 4 rounds. But I think the deadline math needs to at least take into consideration that this team could plausibly play 5+ home playoff games this year.

If somehow we can land Hanifin and slide Leddy and Krug down a pairing I would be confident in saying that we'll win at least 1 round, maybe 2.

 

[AyeBah]

Krug has been pretty good this year. What games are you watching?


If somehow we can land Hanifin and slide Leddy and Krug down a pairing I would be confident in saying that we'll win at least 1 round, maybe 2.

Pretty good compared to last year or pretty good for a 6.5 million $ dman?