WJC: 2022 Team USA Roster Talk

[Pavel Buchnevich]

We gotta see Stramel in the next game. This isn't an especially strong group of forwards. Stramel is probably the best long-term forward prospect on the team. Having undrafted forwards in the lineup over him is a terrible look. And he shouldn't leave the lineup either. We have 13 spots, and we don't have 13 good forwards.

Tough to get excited about a win against Germany. I didn't think we were good though. Only won by 4 goals and only 50 shots. These games are tough to measure what would be a good performance, but something like 60+ shots and 7 or 8 goal win would've been my expectation.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Their speed pretty much overwhelmed the Germans from the outset. Solid effort overall, and lots to build on.

There is loads of creativity on the team, but I thought their passing was a bit too cute at times, and that won't do against stronger teams. Would like to have seen them take all of their good shot opportunities, rather than making the extra pass in a failed attempt to find the perfect shot.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Don't get the Peart hate, one really bad change mixup, the turnover on the PP was not good but quickly recovered and he was one of like 6 guys that cost us PP time already. Call it karma for the ludicrous keep in that he pulled off in the first, throw in the assist where he opened up the O zone entry and its not exactly awful play outside of two puck slip ups in game one of a summer hockey tournament. Benching him in the first period is hilariously out of touch.

He had another terrible drop pass on a PP. I think it was to Berard.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

We gotta see Stramel in the next game. This isn't an especially strong group of forwards. Stramel is probably the best long-term forward prospect on the team. Having undrafted forwards in the lineup over him is a terrible look. And he shouldn't leave the lineup either. We have 13 spots, and we don't have 13 good forwards.

Tough to get excited about a win against Germany. I didn't think we were good though. Only won by 4 goals and only 50 shots. These games are tough to measure what would be a good performance, but something like 60+ shots and 7 or 8 goal win would've been my expectation.

I don't see any reason to change the forward group after the Germany game. Draft pedigree is literally meaningless. You put together the best team possible. Stramel wlll have plenty of chances in the winter WJC.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Interesting preview by JP Morosi; except none of the players discussed made the actual team.

In his defense he did the piece at the end of July.

2022 World Junior Championship Group B preview | NHL.com

Devils defenseman prospect Luke Hughes leads United States attempt at back-to-back titles

www.nhl.com

 

[Torts]

Super impressed with USA last night. Albeit Germany, one could argue this forward unit is better than the one that skated last December. Yes no Beniers but you add Bordy and a more experienced Cooley. As mentioned above, if they had more finish it could have been 10-1 easily.

 

[Ban Hammered]

He had another terrible drop pass on a PP. I think it was to Berard.

Players make mistakes...doesn't mean they should be benched for them.
Great way to get your team playing tight..."Screw up, you're sitting."

 

[MuckOG]

Not sure we are watching same game. If he looks like this vs Germany, I am sooooo excited for him vs Canada/Sweden/Finland..

There is also no hate...you make a horrific mistake like he did your ass gets benched at any level. My 9 year old hasn't seen ice in 3 months with a less horrific turnover than Peart...

What a horrible league your son plays in if he gets benched for 3 months for making a mistake!! I hope this is just some hyperbole on your part.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't see any reason to change the forward group after the Germany game. Draft pedigree is literally meaningless. You put together the best team possible. Stramel wlll have plenty of chances in the winter WJC.

You are becoming a broken record. You love this team. You think being undrafted is a good thing. I personally don’t.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Players make mistakes...doesn't mean they should be benched for them.
Great way to get your team playing tight..."Screw up, you're sitting."

I didn't say he should be sat. I only mentioned that he made two pretty big mistakes in the game on the PP. Both of the same variety when he was the last man back. Players will make mistakes, two nonchalant plays isn't a good trend though.

 

[AmericanDream]

I don't see any reason to change the forward group after the Germany game. Draft pedigree is literally meaningless. You put together the best team possible. Stramel wlll have plenty of chances in the winter WJC.

I do want to see what Stramel can do here and I am sure he will get a game in somewhere but the lines looked good and I am fine with rolling them again.

James is impressive. His speed really stands out. Energy guy with some decent skill...he can really help hold down that 4th line for us.

 

[ClayAikenFan77]

You are becoming a broken record. You love this team. You think being undrafted is a good thing. I personally don’t.

No, he's saying if/where someone was drafted or where someone might be drafted next year doesn't matter if you CURRENTLY aren't as good as another player and the team wants to win. Stramel ended his USHL career with 23 points in 38 games, leaving a lot more to be desired. He is unproven compared to players who have played NCAA hockey and isn't close to Cooley (64 points in 51 USHL games). I'm sure he will get his shot, and I also look forward to it, but I'm pretty sure if he was good enough to slot in he would have played last night.

Cooley was the clearly the best player on the USNTDP team this year, a top 3 pick, and he wasn't even our best forward last night. Our best forwards vs Germany (IMO) were two 3rd round picks (Mazur and Slaggert) and a 2nd round pick (Bordeleau).

I don't get what it is with you and draft pedigree. If a player gets drafted in the 1st round but at tryouts and camp are clearly not as good as a lower round/undrafted player, why do you think the player with a better draft pedigree still deserves to make the team or play more? It doesn't make the USA look bad, it makes the NHL scouting departments who passed up on the lower round/undrafted player look bad.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

No, he's saying if/where someone was drafted or where someone might be drafted next year doesn't matter if you CURRENTLY aren't as good as another player and the team wants to win. Stramel ended his USHL career with 23 points in 38 games, leaving a lot more to be desired. He is unproven compared to players who have played NCAA hockey and isn't close to Cooley (64 points in 51 USHL games). I'm sure he will get his shot, and I also look forward to it, but I'm pretty sure if he was good enough to slot in he would have played last night.

Cooley was the clearly the best player on the USNTDP team this year, a top 3 pick, and he wasn't even our best forward last night. Our best forwards vs Germany (IMO) were two 3rd round picks (Mazur and Slaggert) and a 2nd round pick (Bordeleau).

I don't get what it is with you and draft pedigree. If a player gets drafted in the 1st round but at tryouts and camp are clearly not as good as a lower round/undrafted player, why do you think the player with a better draft pedigree still deserves to make the team or play more? It doesn't make the USA look bad, it makes the NHL scouting departments who passed up on the lower round/undrafted player look bad.

How many points did Hunter McKown end his USHL career with?

If Connor Bedard was 14th forward and some undrafted guy that sat through three drafts without being selected was in the lineup, Canada fans would rightfully be mad.

USA fans often ask for mediocrity, as you are. Who cares who played like what against Germany? Germany sucks. They should all be playing well against Germany. That’s not a reason to not change the lineup, unless you want mediocrity.

USA fans think we’ll grind our way to a title, just as we were supposed to do with the 2020 edition with Zegras, Turcotte, Caufield, Boldy, York playing very minor roles or not making the team at all. And those 19 year old grinders who have no pedigree weren’t good enough and we went out early in 2020. It’s the same ask this time around. We have one 2004 that made the lineup. That guy was there in December, so there were essentially no new good younger players that were added.

As far as I can tell, the coach added one of his team’s players, a few undrafted guys, and a few later picks with little fanfare. You can say that it’s an outrage I bring up draft position, but it’s no fun to watch a bunch of guys that aren’t actually good American prospects that’ll have much of any contribution to NHL hockey or USAH going forward. And I don’t think it makes us better either, now or for the upcoming tournaments.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

You are becoming a broken record. You love this team. You think being undrafted is a good thing. I personally don’t.

Wow, that's one way to display your reading comprehension.

News flash: Draft position is irrelevant to how good a player is 2 years later.

 

[CoSi]

If Connor Bedard was 14th forward and some undrafted guy that sat through three drafts without being selected was in the lineup, Canada fans would rightfully be mad.

Because Connor Bedard had 100 points and is potentially the best forward in the tournament. It isn't about draft status and potential, teams pick and play the best players at the time of the tournament.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Wow, that's one way to display your reading comprehension.

News flash: Draft position is irrelevant to how good a player is 2 years later.

You hurt your own argument so easily. Why didn’t these guys get drafted a month ago if they’re so good?

Because Connor Bedard had 100 points and is potentially the best forward in the tournament. It isn't about draft status and potential, teams pick and play the best players at the time of the tournament.

Weak argument. Insert Adam Fantilli and it’s the same thing.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

You hurt your own argument so easily. Why didn’t these guys get drafted a month ago if they’re so good?

Because they don't project to be great players at the NHL level because they already have 2 years of development under their belts?

You can't possibly be this dense.

 

[CoSi]

You hurt your own argument so easily. Why didn’t these guys get drafted a month ago if they’re so good?



Weak argument. Insert Adam Fantilli and it’s the same thing.

Bedard is a much better player than Fantilli, and I haven't seen any Canadian fans complain about Fantilli not making the team. Also, players might go undrafted if their skillset isn't seen as projectable to the NHL, however, it might still work at the junior level for this tournament. And if you're talking about McKown, he did not get drafted as he is 20 years old and further along in his development, he doesn't project to be as good in the NHL as 17 year olds with more potential.

 

[ClayAikenFan77]

How many points did Hunter McKown end his USHL career with?

If Connor Bedard was 14th forward and some undrafted guy that sat through three drafts without being selected was in the lineup, Canada fans would rightfully be mad.

USA fans often ask for mediocrity, as you are. Who cares who played like what against Germany? Germany sucks. They should all be playing well against Germany. That’s not a reason to not change the lineup, unless you want mediocrity.

USA fans think we’ll grind our way to a title, just as we were supposed to do with the 2020 edition with Zegras, Turcotte, Caufield, Boldy, York playing very minor roles or not making the team at all. And those 19 year old grinders who have no pedigree weren’t good enough and we went out early in 2020. It’s the same ask this time around. We have one 2004 that made the lineup. That guy was there in December, so there were essentially no new good younger players that were added.

As far as I can tell, the coach added one of his team’s players, a few undrafted guys, and a few later picks with little fanfare. You can say that it’s an outrage I bring up draft position, but it’s no fun to watch a bunch of guys that aren’t actually good American prospects that’ll have much of any contribution to NHL hockey or USAH going forward. And I don’t think it makes us better either, now or for the upcoming tournaments.

1. You're right he didn't have many in the USHL, but he had 21 points in 35 games in the NCAA on a bad team in the best conference in college hockey. If Stramel puts up 21 points on a Wisconsin team whose top returning player had 22 points I will be SHOCKED. Until he does that, he is unproven compared to McKown in my eyes.

2. Charlie Stramel is not effing Connor Bedard LMAO this is a horrible comparison come on. Of course Bedard is on their top line because he's arguably their best forward. If he was American I'm sure he would be on our top line. You can't be serious about this one lol.

3. Nope not asking for mediocrity. And I care how we play against Germany and I'm glad we played well. You truly think adding Stramel or any of the 04 USA players would have made a difference when none of them would've played in the top 3 lines or on the top 2 d-pairs? No one besides Cooley deserved to make this team. If Aiden Thompson didn't get hurt, I don't think Stramel makes this team.

4. If you are talking about the 19-20 team, in my opinion this years team is holistically better. It is a team game if you recall, need more than just a few flashy forwards to win and I believe this team is set up to perform better.

5. The coach did pick one player from his team who happens to be drafted so I'm surprised you're upset about it! I was thoroughly under impressed with the USNTDP 04's besides Cooley and Gauthier (I'm pretty high on Gauthier). I don't think any of them would've made this team better or more fun to watch as a lot of them are very very suspect defensively, and you don't win in this tournament with players who can't play defense. Also if you think the players on our top 3 lines won't play in the NHL ever, you are truly a terrible prospect evaluator and I guess that makes sense with how much you care about a players draft number.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

How many points did Hunter McKown end his USHL career with?

If Connor Bedard was 14th forward and some undrafted guy that sat through three drafts without being selected was in the lineup, Canada fans would rightfully be mad.

USA fans often ask for mediocrity, as you are. Who cares who played like what against Germany? Germany sucks. They should all be playing well against Germany. That’s not a reason to not change the lineup, unless you want mediocrity.

USA fans think we’ll grind our way to a title, just as we were supposed to do with the 2020 edition with Zegras, Turcotte, Caufield, Boldy, York playing very minor roles or not making the team at all. And those 19 year old grinders who have no pedigree weren’t good enough and we went out early in 2020. It’s the same ask this time around. We have one 2004 that made the lineup. That guy was there in December, so there were essentially no new good younger players that were added.

As far as I can tell, the coach added one of his team’s players, a few undrafted guys, and a few later picks with little fanfare. You can say that it’s an outrage I bring up draft position, but it’s no fun to watch a bunch of guys that aren’t actually good American prospects that’ll have much of any contribution to NHL hockey or USAH going forward. And I don’t think it makes us better either, now or for the upcoming tournaments.

I'm not sure what's funnier. You comparing Stramel to ****ing Connor Bedard, or the suggestion that we are sitting players of Zegras's caliber lol.

For the record, I agree that Zegras and co were underutilized in 2020. Zegras should have been in the top 6 right off the bat. Not because he was drafted high, but because he was obviously our best offensive player.

This team has plenty of skill up front, with a good mix of speedy, physical energy players in the bottom 6, which is exactly what you need. This team is not dissimilar to the 2021 gold medal group, with guys like Slaggert, Farinacci, Berard, Moynihan, and Colangelo playing those energy roles.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Bedard is a much better player than Fantilli, and I haven't seen any Canadian fans complain about Fantilli not making the team.

Canada has a better roster than us. You are avoiding the point.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

1. You're right he didn't have many in the USHL, but he had 21 points in 35 games in the NCAA on a bad team in the best conference in college hockey. If Stramel puts up 21 points on a Wisconsin team whose top returning player had 22 points I will be SHOCKED. Until he does that, he is unproven compared to McKown in my eyes.

2. Charlie Stramel is not effing Connor Bedard LMAO this is a horrible comparison come on. Of course Bedard is on their top line because he's arguably their best forward. If he was American I'm sure he would be on our top line. You can't be serious about this one lol.

3. Nope not asking for mediocrity. And I care how we play against Germany and I'm glad we played well. You truly think adding Stramel or any of the 04 USA players would have made a difference when none of them would've played in the top 3 lines or on the top 2 d-pairs? No one besides Cooley deserved to make this team. If Aiden Thompson didn't get hurt, I don't think Stramel makes this team.

4. If you are talking about the 19-20 team, in my opinion this years team is holistically better. It is a team game if you recall, need more than just a few flashy forwards to win and I believe this team is set up to perform better.

5. The coach did pick one player from his team who happens to be drafted so I'm surprised you're upset about it! I was thoroughly under impressed with the USNTDP 04's besides Cooley and Gauthier (I'm pretty high on Gauthier). I don't think any of them would've made this team better or more fun to watch as a lot of them are very very suspect defensively, and you don't win in this tournament with players who can't play defense. Also if you think the players on our top 3 lines won't play in the NHL ever, you are truly a terrible prospect evaluator and I guess that makes sense with how much you care about a players draft number.

1. Yes, I am right. But you miss the point entirely. If you are the age of a player who should've played two college seasons by now, you've went through the draft three times now without being drafted, and your claim to being on the team is 21 points in 35 games for a bad college hockey team, why does that give you a place on the team? The standard for making the team shouldn't be who has played the most hockey at a higher level. If that mattered so much, Canada wouldn't be the best team so often. After all, their players are almost always junior players who have little pro or college hockey experience. But they are the best because they have the most talented hockey players year after year. Hunter McKown should not in consideration to make the team. I don't care if he's more proven at the NCAA level than a kid who has never even played at the NCAA level. We want to build the best team, for now and the future.

And it's an entertainment product also. If this tournament had no age limit and was merely players who haven't played pro hockey, I wouldn't bring the whole Minnesota State team because they staff their team with older, bigger, more physical players. You have to be favoring NHL projection into your decisions, if you expect your fans to care. Clearly though they've roped in a few who are really excited to watch a bunch of bad prospects, and will go to bat for picking the oldest possible team that realistically could've been picked with numerous mediocre prospects picked over guys who will be very good NHL'ers.

2. Then take Adam Fantilli. If they picked a guy who sat through three drafts without being picked over Adam Fantilli, their fans would be furious. It's the same point. But yet some of you love the team and USAH, so you back this stuff without questioning it. I think it's appalling that our best draft prospect this season isn't in the lineup and a guy who has passed through the draft three times with no real indication it was some huge mistake or he's some great player either at this level is in the lineup. This is after we only have one 2022 prospect also.

3. Well, I'm not sure we actually played well against Germany. 5-1 with only 50 shots? There was also a five minute PP that was the reason for a lot of those shots. Let's see how we do against some real teams. I think this team will struggle. This is a very unlikable USA team this year. I'm a USA fan that wants us to succeed, but I'm calling it as I see it. I see us flaming out this year, and not medaling. I've been saying it for a while.

5. The coach picked two players from his team, Duran and Berard. I didn't question the Berard pick because I'm fair. Berard was on the team last year, played well, and he was great last year in college hockey. He deserves a spot on the team, although I'd caution that being 19 years old doesn't mean he'll do great. There's a reason most of these guys go mid/late rounds or are undrafted. Some seem to not understand that. I am questioning Riley Duran, the player added since December. He's the same age as McKown and had 19 points in 38 games. 6th round pick in 2020. He was 6th on Providence in scoring last season. Genuinely don't think I saw his name mentioned once anywhere I read during the 2021-22 season. I'm not sure how he's on the team over 2022 high picks like McGroarty, Nazar, Gauthier, let alone playing over Stramel, either. I'm not even sure how he's on the team over some of the 2021 draft picks like Boucher and Janicke. He's on the team because he's 19 years old and the plays for the coach.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I'm not sure what's funnier. You comparing Stramel to ****ing Connor Bedard, or the suggestion that we are sitting players of Zegras's caliber lol.

For the record, I agree that Zegras and co were underutilized in 2020. Zegras should have been in the top 6 right off the bat. Not because he was drafted high, but because he was obviously our best offensive player.

This team has plenty of skill up front, with a good mix of speedy, physical energy players in the bottom 6, which is exactly what you need. This team is not dissimilar to the 2021 gold medal group, with guys like Slaggert, Farinacci, Berard, Moynihan, and Colangelo playing those energy roles.

Is there any proof you agreed that the 2020 team composition was off? Because I don't believe you.

I see you defending these decisions with no critical thinking. You seem to completely back the team and coach. Thats all I see in your posts. In fact, I didn't even start this discussion. You got mad that I criticized an appalling decision, and you had to react to my post with your broken record defense of the coach and team. And you are so fixated on defending guys who aren't good hockey players because you need to stick up for some idea that draft position doesn't matter. Thats largely irrelevant to the discussion thats being had. These players aren't bad because they weren't drafted or drafted high. They are bad and because of that aren't drafted high or not at all.

If you seriously think this team is similar to the 2021 Gold Medal team, you don't have a clue about any of these players. The 2002 age group has long been discussed as a bad group for Americans. And it's obviously weakened without Beniers, Sanderson, Commesso. This is a weak 19 year old group for us. The 2002 age group has gotten a little better in recent years with the emergence of non-NTDP players like Knies, Samoskevich, and Coronato, but when you don't have a 19 year old first round pick from the NTDP in the lineup it's probably going to be a weaker age group. The 2001 age group was long discussed as a very good American age group. That was a great 19 year old group, which I actually would've advocated for not bringing too many younger players because the 19 year olds were just better than the others.

Thats where I use critical thinking. I think you are missing that. I can delineate between the two. When we have the best team, we shouldn't be planning for future editions or taking risks. But it's clearly different here with this team. Thats before we even get to an area like goaltending. This team doesn't have a goalie drafted, which you'll get mad that I'm mentioning, but the 2021 team had Spencer Knight. Night and day from this team, pun intended.

 

[Razor Face]

I missed the game last night. I’m curious how Kleven looked and what sort of role he is expected to have on the team?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Is there any proof you agreed that the 2020 team composition was off? Because I don't believe you.

I see you defending these decisions with no critical thinking. You seem to completely back the team and coach. Thats all I see in your posts. In fact, I didn't even start this discussion. You got mad that I criticized an appalling decision, and you had to react to my post with your broken record defense of the coach and team. And you are so fixated on defending guys who aren't good hockey players because you need to stick up for some idea that draft position doesn't matter. Thats largely irrelevant to the discussion thats being had. These players aren't bad because they weren't drafted or drafted high. They are bad and because of that aren't drafted high or not at all.

If you seriously think this team is similar to the 2021 Gold Medal team, you don't have a clue about any of these players. The 2002 age group has long been discussed as a bad group for Americans. And it's obviously weakened without Beniers, Sanderson, Commesso. This is a weak 19 year old group for us. The 2002 age group has gotten a little better in recent years with the emergence of non-NTDP players like Knies, Samoskevich, and Coronato, but when you don't have a 19 year old first round pick from the NTDP in the lineup it's probably going to be a weaker age group. The 2001 age group was long discussed as a very good American age group. That was a great 19 year old group, which I actually would've advocated for not bringing too many younger players because the 19 year olds were just better than the others.

Thats where I use critical thinking. I think you are missing that. I can delineate between the two. When we have the best team, we shouldn't be planning for future editions or taking risks. But it's clearly different here with this team. Thats before we even get to an area like goaltending. This team doesn't have a goalie drafted, which you'll get mad that I'm mentioning, but the 2021 team had Spencer Knight. Night and day from this team, pun intended.

I'm going to go ahead and stop you right there. These are all from one thread during the 2020 WJC - but I guess I don't use critical thinking...

No reason to be ignorant, Turcotte and Zegras (who are hardly pint sized) weren't weren't playing because that's how the lines were set by our idiot coach.

Funny enough, our pint sized players played a lot, Robertson (5'9 162) played 19 minutes and had 1+1 in the 3rd period, sure seemed like he was intimidated. Caufield played 18 minutes as well, but was had bottom 6 grinders on his wing in Drury and Beecher.

The US forward group is plenty talented to create more than one ES goal, even against Canada. Unfortunately, our most talented forwards were either deployed like fourth liners, or with fourth liners.

Our coach has no idea what he's doing sorry. All he knows is how to coach grind it out hockey.

They scored one goal at even strength, and created almost no chances at even strength.

That's what happens when you don't play your best players.

I'm going to ignore the rest of the nonsense you just posted because its so obviously false. Your posts have become the most consistently terrible posts on this forum.

It's quite remarkable how you devote so much time to following these prospects without actually understanding the sport.