WJC: 2022 Team USA Roster Talk

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Slovakia every year. The up/down relegation teams every year have a lot of players who’ve not yet went through a draft. Czech Republic, Finland, Sweden, Russia, and even Canada, also have taken draft eligibles or even players not yet in their draft eligible season. When was the last time we had two skaters that were first time draft-eligible? We’ve had a few draft-eligible skaters scattered through recent years and then a few backup goalies scattered through recent years.

The only country that seems to think they need to force feed big minutes to 19 year olds every year, no matter how good those players are, is the USA.
That's absolutely not true. Finland, which wins the tournament as often as anyone, places little emphasis on draft position and usually sends teams comprised of mostly 19-year-olds. Further, their squads are usually selected with specific roles in mind; with little regard to NHL potential.
 
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That's absolutely not true. Finland, which wins the tournament as often as anyone, places little emphasis on draft position and usually sends teams comprised of mostly 19-year-olds. Further, their squads are usually selected with specific roles in mind; with little regard to NHL potential.
Almost every year Finland has 1-4 first year draft-eligibles. Their best NHL prospects almost always make the roster. They might pick some 19 year olds that aren't NHL draft picks over some 3rd or 4th round NHL pick, but thats a separate discussion.
 
Buium was listed on the roster and replaced shortly after... anyone know why?
 
Anyone having anxiety attacks over the roster, the players you’re likely upset about, will most likely be on the December roster.

But be prepared if they’re not.

The American depth is on par with Canada now. That’s a huge reason… but there is a bigger reason for a kid like Mazur being given so much respect, and even further, December’s team will likely have a couple more surprises to draft round watchers..

So even with it likely McGroarty, Gauthier, and Casey will be included in December, others may not be. In fact Casey might still be on the bubble too.

Still not everyone will be happy when 1st rounders (in the last two drafts) don’t make December’s team. There’s many 2003s who could have huge starts to their seasons and bump some highly drafted players..

There’s a big issue most fans don’t understand about the 2003s. You almost have to throw out draft status completely with them.

Just like Mazur being ridiculously downgraded (this team) by some because he wasn’t a first rounder, those same people will likely complain in December about a kid like Buium, who’s a lock for the team if it was made today. Savage too btw. Same as Mazur…. Buium came on really strong at the NCAA level in the second half, and in the college tournament last season. A far better league than the CHL and USHL.

People need to understand, there are a lot of 2nd and 3rd rounders who very well could’ve been 1st round picks in the last couple drafts, but specifically the 21’ draft.

Because of the Covid restrictions that limited scouting and games played, teams just didn’t have enough info on 2003 players. At least in most cases. Especially North American players. We’re already seeing it play out with a lot of 2003s. They barely played in their draft year. Look at Red Savage and Pasquale Zito. Two players who certainly wouldn’t have been drafted in the 4th or 6th round in re-drafts. Two more of Detroit 03’s btw, and there’s a reason it looks like they killed that draft.

Watch how many 1st round North American busts we end up with from 2021. Or at least, players who should’ve been drafted a lot lower. Same with players drafted in all rounds. The entire draft will be the strangest ever to look back on.

A kid like Buium for example, was just considered too raw but nobody argued about his skillset and talent. Just really didn’t know if he’d have to move to forward AND he was still drafted 36th overall, and is developing very, very nicely since the 21’ draft. A draft at this point that could ultimately go down as one of Detroit’s best ever the way it’s starting to look, and that says something with their history. Edvinsson, Cossa, Buium, Mazur, Savage, Nillson and Zito. Savage is another player who’s a lock for December’s team, and don’t count Zito off of Canada’s December team, or Nillson off Sweden’s.

Someone made a comment about this not being a NYR/Detroit show, but obviously doesn’t understand why. Those are just 2 teams of the 5-6 teams (Detroit, Carolina, Tampa, NYR and Dallas) who scout differently.

Look at all the crap Dallas took for taking Wyatt Johnson. Nobody is laughing today. Anaheim (Verbeek coming from Detroit and Tampa) too just contracted with like 20 guys in Ontario, Michigan, and BC.

They use the old Jimmy Devellano scouting method. They contract with a lot of old AAA coaches for most of their preliminary info. They don’t rely on Central Scouting services at all really. They may cross reference to see where a player might be drafted, because so many teams do rely on it, but they rely very little on those services, where most teams use these services and then narrow down their scouting to how those players rank.

So because of the Covid restrictions, those teams likely just had more info. Especially on North American kids in the 21’ draft. Central Scouting rankings were atrocious for that draft. Understandably so, because they so heavily rely on current draft year info to rank players. Where those 5 teams probably knew how the kid ate, his work ethic, tendencies, etc… at 15-16 years old, and were already very familiar with them.

So you likely had 25+ teams who rely on a lot of scouting service information, have Mazur ranked way lower than Detroit had him ranked. It would not be a stretch to think, if Detroit had let’s say the 29th and 30th overall, they may very well have drafted Buium and Mazur. They just simply had more in-depth info. Especially with Mazur coming out of the Detroit AAA system. So Draper himself, who was coaching those age groups, would’ve known Mazur since he was 12. Maybe younger. Savage since Bantam Minor.

So fans who put so much weight on a player’s draft status, draft year stats, etc, firstly, need to understand it’s not the same as it used to be due to depth, but with the 2003’s, they should disregard it altogether.

A 2nd, 3rd and even 4th round pick from the 2021 draft, could very well be better than your 2022 1st round pick. It’ll be interesting in 5 years, what the redrafts from 21’ will look like. We already know Wyatt Johnson, Shai Buium Red Savage and Mazur would have been drafted higher. There’s likely many more to come.

Enjoy the tournament but don’t for a minute think there’s some grand conspiracy regarding the roster.
 
Slovakia every year. The up/down relegation teams every year have a lot of players who’ve not yet went through a draft. Czech Republic, Finland, Sweden, Russia, and even Canada, also have taken draft eligibles or even players not yet in their draft eligible season. When was the last time we had two skaters that were first time draft-eligible? We’ve had a few draft-eligible skaters scattered through recent years and then a few backup goalies scattered through recent years.

The only country that seems to think they need to force feed big minutes to 19 year olds every year, no matter how good those players are, is the USA.
That's categorically false. Have you never watched Russia play in this tournament.

USA typically fields the same amount of 17-18 year olds as most other top teams.
 
This tournament should not be to test the pedigree of late picks. We aren’t trying to boost the stock of Wings or Rangers prospects. We want to win. We have to go head to head with a lot of first round picks from Canada.

It’s going to be a losing battle trying to have late picks outplay the Canada players. Give me the 2022 and 2023 draft eligibles. At least they can return next time if we lose.
You do have some weird hills to die on at times...same as your Jack Hughes (Devils) not gonna be a NHL center...but let's not go there...I kid I kid..

In a sense I agree with you but not just based on draft round. Many of us have bitched about picking skill. No more top 6 and bottom 6 teams and go with a top 9 offensive roster with a bottom 3 defensive minded line.

All I care about is skill. And this group is so deep that I don't have any real issues right now with the names left off. Still need to pick a hard working group that can play various roles. Mazur and Bedard are not going to keep us from winning gold, in fact damn glad they are both here.

We have the chance at an older, skilled, deep team. You take that 10 out of 10 times. The rest of the 04's time will be in December. No issues at all with that my friend.
 
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This Berard guy has the potentiel to be the next Laferriere

Berard/Bedard
Lafreniere/Laferriere

:sarcasm:
 
That's categorically false. Have you never watched Russia play in this tournament.

USA typically fields the same amount of 17-18 year olds as most other top teams.
Are Michkov, Koromyslov, Grudinin, and Yurov not 2022 or 2023 draft eligibles? All were on their team in December. Miroshnichenko was one of the last cuts also.

If you think Russia doesn't take draft eligibles, you've missed the last few years.

USA fields the oldest roster usually. Canada also usually fields an older roster, but at least a few years ago they were willing to have Lafreniere, Byfield, Mercer, and Drysdale in their draft season. When was the last time we had 3, let alone 4?
 
You do have some weird hills to die on at times...same as your Jack Hughes (Devils) not gonna be a NHL center...but let's not go there...I kid I kid..

In a sense I agree with you but not just based on draft round. Many of us have bitched about picking skill. No more top 6 and bottom 6 teams and go with a top 9 offensive roster with a bottom 3 defensive minded line.

All I care about is skill. And this group is so deep that I don't have any real issues right now with the names left off. Still need to pick a hard working group that can play various roles. Mazur and Bedard are not going to keep us from winning gold, in fact damn glad they are both here.

We have the chance at an older, skilled, deep team. You take that 10 out of 10 times. The rest of the 04's time will be in December. No issues at all with that my friend.
For the record, Jack Hughes is 35% on face-offs in his career. Thats not a center. I never said he wouldn't be a good player. Can't win 35% of face-offs and be a center.

I don't really agree with you that this group is deep. There are going to be 3-4 players who aren't even drafted on the team. We rarely have any players who aren't drafted. Yes, you can say draft position doesn't matter. I think thats mostly true, but when there's an American 19 year old who hasn't been drafted thats probably because they aren't actually any good. The 2002 age group has always been looked at as a little weaker, and thats before you talk about how many players we have missing. I certainly don't think it's a deep group. But yes, I do want skill. I certainly agree about that.
 
Anyone having anxiety attacks over the roster, the players you’re likely upset about, will most likely be on the December roster.

But be prepared if they’re not.

The American depth is on par with Canada now. That’s a huge reason… but there is a bigger reason for a kid like Mazur being given so much respect, and even further, December’s team will likely have a couple more surprises to draft round watchers..

So even with it likely McGroarty, Gauthier, and Casey will be included in December, others may not be. In fact Casey might still be on the bubble too.

Still not everyone will be happy when 1st rounders (in the last two drafts) don’t make December’s team. There’s many 2003s who could have huge starts to their seasons and bump some highly drafted players..

There’s a big issue most fans don’t understand about the 2003s. You almost have to throw out draft status completely with them.

Just like Mazur being ridiculously downgraded (this team) by some because he wasn’t a first rounder, those same people will likely complain in December about a kid like Buium, who’s a lock for the team if it was made today. Savage too btw. Same as Mazur…. Buium came on really strong at the NCAA level in the second half, and in the college tournament last season. A far better league than the CHL and USHL.

People need to understand, there are a lot of 2nd and 3rd rounders who very well could’ve been 1st round picks in the last couple drafts, but specifically the 21’ draft.

Because of the Covid restrictions that limited scouting and games played, teams just didn’t have enough info on 2003 players. At least in most cases. Especially North American players. We’re already seeing it play out with a lot of 2003s. They barely played in their draft year. Look at Red Savage and Pasquale Zito. Two players who certainly wouldn’t have been drafted in the 4th or 6th round in re-drafts. Two more of Detroit 03’s btw, and there’s a reason it looks like they killed that draft.

Watch how many 1st round North American busts we end up with from 2021. Or at least, players who should’ve been drafted a lot lower. Same with players drafted in all rounds. The entire draft will be the strangest ever to look back on.

A kid like Buium for example, was just considered too raw but nobody argued about his skillset and talent. Just really didn’t know if he’d have to move to forward AND he was still drafted 36th overall, and is developing very, very nicely since the 21’ draft. A draft at this point that could ultimately go down as one of Detroit’s best ever the way it’s starting to look, and that says something with their history. Edvinsson, Cossa, Buium, Mazur, Savage, Nillson and Zito. Savage is another player who’s a lock for December’s team, and don’t count Zito off of Canada’s December team, or Nillson off Sweden’s.

Someone made a comment about this not being a NYR/Detroit show, but obviously doesn’t understand why. Those are just 2 teams of the 5-6 teams (Detroit, Carolina, Tampa, NYR and Dallas) who scout differently.

Look at all the crap Dallas took for taking Wyatt Johnson. Nobody is laughing today. Anaheim (Verbeek coming from Detroit and Tampa) too just contracted with like 20 guys in Ontario, Michigan, and BC.

They use the old Jimmy Devellano scouting method. They contract with a lot of old AAA coaches for most of their preliminary info. They don’t rely on Central Scouting services at all really. They may cross reference to see where a player might be drafted, because so many teams do rely on it, but they rely very little on those services, where most teams use these services and then narrow down their scouting to how those players rank.

So because of the Covid restrictions, those teams likely just had more info. Especially on North American kids in the 21’ draft. Central Scouting rankings were atrocious for that draft. Understandably so, because they so heavily rely on current draft year info to rank players. Where those 5 teams probably knew how the kid ate, his work ethic, tendencies, etc… at 15-16 years old, and were already very familiar with them.

So you likely had 25+ teams who rely on a lot of scouting service information, have Mazur ranked way lower than Detroit had him ranked. It would not be a stretch to think, if Detroit had let’s say the 29th and 30th overall, they may very well have drafted Buium and Mazur. They just simply had more in-depth info. Especially with Mazur coming out of the Detroit AAA system. So Draper himself, who was coaching those age groups, would’ve known Mazur since he was 12. Maybe younger. Savage since Bantam Minor.

So fans who put so much weight on a player’s draft status, draft year stats, etc, firstly, need to understand it’s not the same as it used to be due to depth, but with the 2003’s, they should disregard it altogether.

A 2nd, 3rd and even 4th round pick from the 2021 draft, could very well be better than your 2022 1st round pick. It’ll be interesting in 5 years, what the redrafts from 21’ will look like. We already know Wyatt Johnson, Shai Buium Red Savage and Mazur would have been drafted higher. There’s likely many more to come.

Enjoy the tournament but don’t for a minute think there’s some grand conspiracy regarding the roster.
I agree with your idea that where a player was drafted in 2021 and even other drafts isn't all that matters. It matters, but the team shouldn't be picked entirely on who were the highest picks.

However, with all due respect, your post reads exactly like you want this team to be a bunch of Detroit Red Wings draft picks, and you don't care about if we should pick the best team.

My opinion is that Savage should probably make the team in December as a 4C because he's actually very good at that. Buium, we'll see. I think he has a chance, but when you look at LHD options, I like Hughes, Behrens, Peart, Hreschuk, Hutson more. None of those guys are overly big, so thats an advantage for him, but he's probably someone who should be competing with a few other big LHD for one spot. I don't think he's a lock and I don't think Savage should be either, even if I think Savage would be on my team.
 
Anyone having anxiety attacks over the roster, the players you’re likely upset about, will most likely be on the December roster.

But be prepared if they’re not.

The American depth is on par with Canada now. That’s a huge reason… but there is a bigger reason for a kid like Mazur being given so much respect, and even further, December’s team will likely have a couple more surprises to draft round watchers..

So even with it likely McGroarty, Gauthier, and Casey will be included in December, others may not be. In fact Casey might still be on the bubble too.

Still not everyone will be happy when 1st rounders (in the last two drafts) don’t make December’s team. There’s many 2003s who could have huge starts to their seasons and bump some highly drafted players..

There’s a big issue most fans don’t understand about the 2003s. You almost have to throw out draft status completely with them.

Just like Mazur being ridiculously downgraded (this team) by some because he wasn’t a first rounder, those same people will likely complain in December about a kid like Buium, who’s a lock for the team if it was made today. Savage too btw. Same as Mazur…. Buium came on really strong at the NCAA level in the second half, and in the college tournament last season. A far better league than the CHL and USHL.

People need to understand, there are a lot of 2nd and 3rd rounders who very well could’ve been 1st round picks in the last couple drafts, but specifically the 21’ draft.

Because of the Covid restrictions that limited scouting and games played, teams just didn’t have enough info on 2003 players. At least in most cases. Especially North American players. We’re already seeing it play out with a lot of 2003s. They barely played in their draft year. Look at Red Savage and Pasquale Zito. Two players who certainly wouldn’t have been drafted in the 4th or 6th round in re-drafts. Two more of Detroit 03’s btw, and there’s a reason it looks like they killed that draft.

Watch how many 1st round North American busts we end up with from 2021. Or at least, players who should’ve been drafted a lot lower. Same with players drafted in all rounds. The entire draft will be the strangest ever to look back on.

A kid like Buium for example, was just considered too raw but nobody argued about his skillset and talent. Just really didn’t know if he’d have to move to forward AND he was still drafted 36th overall, and is developing very, very nicely since the 21’ draft. A draft at this point that could ultimately go down as one of Detroit’s best ever the way it’s starting to look, and that says something with their history. Edvinsson, Cossa, Buium, Mazur, Savage, Nillson and Zito. Savage is another player who’s a lock for December’s team, and don’t count Zito off of Canada’s December team, or Nillson off Sweden’s.

Someone made a comment about this not being a NYR/Detroit show, but obviously doesn’t understand why. Those are just 2 teams of the 5-6 teams (Detroit, Carolina, Tampa, NYR and Dallas) who scout differently.

Look at all the crap Dallas took for taking Wyatt Johnson. Nobody is laughing today. Anaheim (Verbeek coming from Detroit and Tampa) too just contracted with like 20 guys in Ontario, Michigan, and BC.

They use the old Jimmy Devellano scouting method. They contract with a lot of old AAA coaches for most of their preliminary info. They don’t rely on Central Scouting services at all really. They may cross reference to see where a player might be drafted, because so many teams do rely on it, but they rely very little on those services, where most teams use these services and then narrow down their scouting to how those players rank.

So because of the Covid restrictions, those teams likely just had more info. Especially on North American kids in the 21’ draft. Central Scouting rankings were atrocious for that draft. Understandably so, because they so heavily rely on current draft year info to rank players. Where those 5 teams probably knew how the kid ate, his work ethic, tendencies, etc… at 15-16 years old, and were already very familiar with them.

So you likely had 25+ teams who rely on a lot of scouting service information, have Mazur ranked way lower than Detroit had him ranked. It would not be a stretch to think, if Detroit had let’s say the 29th and 30th overall, they may very well have drafted Buium and Mazur. They just simply had more in-depth info. Especially with Mazur coming out of the Detroit AAA system. So Draper himself, who was coaching those age groups, would’ve known Mazur since he was 12. Maybe younger. Savage since Bantam Minor.

So fans who put so much weight on a player’s draft status, draft year stats, etc, firstly, need to understand it’s not the same as it used to be due to depth, but with the 2003’s, they should disregard it altogether.

A 2nd, 3rd and even 4th round pick from the 2021 draft, could very well be better than your 2022 1st round pick. It’ll be interesting in 5 years, what the redrafts from 21’ will look like. We already know Wyatt Johnson, Shai Buium Red Savage and Mazur would have been drafted higher. There’s likely many more to come.

Enjoy the tournament but don’t for a minute think there’s some grand conspiracy regarding the roster.
It is not on par with Canada. The gap is obviously closing but it absolutely isn't there yet. Canada is missing 9 players from the original team to go along with those that weren't in for the first one. (Sillinger,Jarvis). What does the American team look like taking 9-12 players out?
 
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It is not on par with Canada. The gap is obviously closing but it absolutely isn't there yet. Canada is missing 9 players from the original team to go along with those that weren't in for the first one. (Sillinger,Jarvis). What does the American team look like taking 9-12 players out?
Don't forget Drysdale
 
I agree with your idea that where a player was drafted in 2021 and even other drafts isn't all that matters. It matters, but the team shouldn't be picked entirely on who were the highest picks.

However, with all due respect, your post reads exactly like you want this team to be a bunch of Detroit Red Wings draft picks, and you don't care about if we should pick the best team.

My opinion is that Savage should probably make the team in December as a 4C because he's actually very good at that. Buium, we'll see. I think he has a chance, but when you look at LHD options, I like Hughes, Behrens, Peart, Hreschuk, Hutson more. None of those guys are overly big, so thats an advantage for him, but he's probably someone who should be competing with a few other big LHD for one spot. I don't think he's a lock and I don't think Savage should be either, even if I think Savage would be on my team.
Just use them as an example, because frankly it was Mazur who is the player who’s being used as the example, and Detroit has so many players on rosters.
 
For the record, Jack Hughes is 35% on face-offs in his career. Thats not a center. I never said he wouldn't be a good player. Can't win 35% of face-offs and be a center.

I don't really agree with you that this group is deep. There are going to be 3-4 players who aren't even drafted on the team. We rarely have any players who aren't drafted. Yes, you can say draft position doesn't matter. I think thats mostly true, but when there's an American 19 year old who hasn't been drafted thats probably because they aren't actually any good. The 2002 age group has always been looked at as a little weaker, and thats before you talk about how many players we have missing. I certainly don't think it's a deep group. But yes, I do want skill. I certainly agree about that.
Faceoffs are irrelevant to center lol. It’s how they read and drive play that determines the position.
 
The average age of the winning team last 5 years

2021 USA 19.56 (1 '21 draftee)
2020 Canada 19.35 (4 '20 draftees)
2019 Finland 19.43 (3 '19 draftees)
2018 Canada 19.59 (0 '18 draftees)
2017 USA 19.39 (1 '17 draftee)

Compare this to
2022 USA 19.15 (3 '22 draftees, 1 '23 draftee)

2022 Canada 19.28 (1 '22 draftee, 1 '23 draftee)

But no, let's take more 18 year olds because they were drafted higher.
 
The American goalies looks suspect. Canada will be missing key players. I think Sweden is the favourite.
 
The average age of the winning team last 5 years

2021 USA 19.56 (1 '21 draftee)
2020 Canada 19.35 (4 '20 draftees)
2019 Finland 19.43 (3 '19 draftees)
2018 Canada 19.59 (0 '18 draftees)
2017 USA 19.39 (1 '17 draftee)

Compare this to
2022 USA 19.15 (3 '22 draftees, 1 '23 draftee)

2022 Canada 19.28 (1 '22 draftee, 1 '23 draftee)

But no, let's take more 18 year olds because they were drafted higher.
This is such a disingenuous presentation of the facts.

Why doesn't Austria say the same thing? They want to win, so they should take their oldest players. Thats the winning formula.

If your 19 year old depth is weak, which it is, you'd rather lose with a younger team than with an older team. It's a pretty basic concept.

Besides, the oldest teams usually win because they have a good group of 19 year olds and cannot afford to take younger players without sacrificing results. That is not the case for us, and you know that.
 
This is such a disingenuous presentation of the facts.

Why doesn't Austria say the same thing? They want to win, so they should take their oldest players. Thats the winning formula.

If your 19 year old depth is weak, which it is, you'd rather lose with a younger team than with an older team. It's a pretty basic concept.

Besides, the oldest teams usually win because they have a good group of 19 year olds and cannot afford to take younger players without sacrificing results. That is not the case for us, and you know that.
That's such a losers mentality. Not surprising coming from the guy who wanted to send Adam Fox to the AHL during his rookie season.

We have enough talent to challenge for medals every year, so we should be dressing the most competitive team possible.
 
That's such a losers mentality. Not surprising coming from the guy who wanted to send Adam Fox to the AHL during his rookie season.

We have enough talent to challenge for medals every year, so we should be dressing the most competitive team possible.
If you spent half the amount of time actually watching hockey as you do going through other posters comment history looking for irrelevant arguments, you’d actually be quite knowledgeable
 
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