WJC: 2022 Team USA Roster Talk

[Bonin21]

Ya, free country you can leave school whenever you want so doing so before you start wouldn't be that hard either. Getting released from an NLI for the purpose of going to another school could be more challenging, and that kid could be a decent example because I don't know why a very good player would choose Dartmouth.

 

[ORRFForever]

Ya, free country you can leave school whenever you want so doing so before you start wouldn't be that hard either. Getting released from an NLI for the purpose of going to another school could be more challenging, and that kid could be a decent example because I don't know why a very good player would choose Dartmouth.

Thanks!

 

[NewHampshire]

Question :

If a player is "Committed to Dartmouth College for 2023-2024" (example : Griffin Erdman), and the NHL comes a calling, the player can walk away from the "commitment", right?

As explained above - an NLI binds a kid to the school (as it relates to other schools), though much less so nowadays than previously. A kid could sign an NLI with one program and bolt to another before arrival but would need to use their NCAA sanctioned one-time transfer via the portal. If the NCAA passes unlimited transfers (as speculated) in the next few weeks, NLI may go the way of the dodo bird...

Regarding your initial question - Tim Stutzle was committed to New Hampshire. When Ottawa grabbed him 3rd overall he wasted zero time (rightly so) reconsidering his route...

 

[ORRFForever]

As explained above - an NLI binds a kid to the school (as it relates to other schools), though much less so nowadays than previously. A kid could sign an NLI with one program and bolt to another before arrival but would need to use their NCAA sanctioned one-time transfer via the portal. If the NCAA passes unlimited transfers (as speculated) in the next few weeks, NLI may go the way of the dodo bird...

Regarding your initial question - Tim Stutzle was committed to New Hampshire. When Ottawa grabbed him 3rd overall he wasted zero time (rightly so) reconsidering his route...

Fair enough and thank you.

 

[Petes2424]

Only top 9 guys from the 2020 or 2021 draft eligibles should be Bordeleau, Knies, Samoskevich, Coronato, and Pastujov. Rest of those spots should go to 2022 and 2023 draft eligibles. The bottom line and 13F spots could also go to the younger players, although I do feel like this team has some good older grinder types for those roles.

Don’t sell Mazur short. He’s going to likely play a lot of minutes in the Top 6. Kid had a great second half with Denver and then obviously in the tournament. Just another one of Detroit’s sneaky good prospects.

We've won this tournament multiple times with players of the caliber of Mazur and Berard playing key roles. You seem overly concerned with something thing that hasn't happened yet. If those 2 are playing 20 minutes a game and not producing while getting more ice time than better players than sure, we should complain.

Why do we need a drastically different strategy than the one we just utilized to win gold in the last WJC? This team is obviously different but the issue is in goal where we've lost our top 2 goalies. Picking McGroarty over Mazur/Berard won't change that.

People look at 1st round picks and forget how good players like Mazur are. He’s a legit Hobey Baker candidate this upcoming year.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Don’t sell Mazur short. He’s going to likely play a lot of minutes in the Top 6. Kid had a great second half with Denver and then obviously in the tournament. Just another one of Detroit’s sneaky good prospects.


People look at 1st round picks and forget how good players like Mazur are. He’s a legit Hobey Baker candidate this upcoming year.

Yeah but you're not asking the most important question: what's his draft pedigree?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

This tournament should not be to test the pedigree of late picks. We aren’t trying to boost the stock of Wings or Rangers prospects. We want to win. We have to go head to head with a lot of first round picks from Canada.

It’s going to be a losing battle trying to have late picks outplay the Canada players. Give me the 2022 and 2023 draft eligibles. At least they can return next time if we lose.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

This tournament should not be to test the pedigree of late picks. We aren’t trying to boost the stock of Wings or Rangers prospects. We want to win. We have to go head to head with a lot of first round picks from Canada.

It’s going to be a losing battle trying to have late picks outplay the Canada players. Give me the 2022 and 2023 draft eligibles. At least they can return next time if we lose.

Who cares when a player was drafted? A 19 year old former 3rd round pick is typically a much better overall player than a 17 year old mid 1st round pick.

There's a reason they call it a tournament for 19 year olds... It's the same reason NCAA teams would handle major junior teams.

Surely you understand this?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Who cares when a player was drafted? A 19 year old former 3rd round pick is typically a much better overall player than a 17 year old mid 1st round pick.

There's a reason they call it a tournament for 19 year olds... It's the same reason NCAA teams would handle major junior teams.

Surely you understand this?

In a vacuum, I agree. However, do you think Carter Mazur matches up with the guy in the same spot for Canada? I don't, so despite beating the odds of a third round pick that doesn't mean it's going to help us win. I'm not even sure that he's better than the guy in the same spot on Finland or Sweden, and probably not Russia either in a typical year.

I think there's a greater chance of a huge performance from a player with greater pedigree and talent level. If not, they get to return the next year, so you can lose with guys that'll return and help you in future editions.

It's a 19 year old tournament, but its not so much of a 19 year old tournament that you make stupid short-sided decisions that don't help you now or in the future.

 

[CoSi]

In a vacuum, I agree. However, do you think Carter Mazur matches up with the guy in the same spot for Canada? I don't, so despite beating the odds of a third round pick that doesn't mean it's going to help us win. I'm not even sure that he's better than the guy in the same spot on Finland or Sweden, and probably not Russia either in a typical year.

I think there's a greater chance of a huge performance from a player with greater pedigree and talent level. If not, they get to return the next year, so you can lose with guys that'll return and help you in future editions.

It's a 19 year old tournament, but its not so much of a 19 year old tournament that you make stupid short-sided decisions that don't help you now or in the future.

Mazur is much better than Foerster (Canada's 2RW). The only '23 eligible that can skate with 19 year olds is Stramel who made the team, the '22 eligibles that didn't make it are simply worse players at this moment.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

In a vacuum, I agree. However, do you think Carter Mazur matches up with the guy in the same spot for Canada? I don't, so despite beating the odds of a third round pick that doesn't mean it's going to help us win. I'm not even sure that he's better than the guy in the same spot on Finland or Sweden, and probably not Russia either in a typical year.

I think there's a greater chance of a huge performance from a player with greater pedigree and talent level. If not, they get to return the next year, so you can lose with guys that'll return and help you in future editions.

It's a 19 year old tournament, but its not so much of a 19 year old tournament that you make stupid short-sided decisions that don't help you now or in the future.

Mazur just dropped 38p in 41gp in the NCAA... He had a better PPG in the NCAA than Foerster had in the OHL this year...

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Mazur just dropped 38p in 41gp in the NCAA... He had a better PPG in the NCAA than Foerster had in the OHL this year...

That is so misleading. Foerster was injured and only played 13 games. He was still 4th on his team in PPG, and two of those guys ahead of him were first round picks. Good chance that if that was a normal sample size that his stats look a lot better.

Besides, Mazur was 6th on his team. And who is claiming that Foerster will play the same spot for Canada as Mazur will for us?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

That is so misleading. Foerster was injured and only played 13 games. He was still 4th on his team in PPG, and two of those guys ahead of him were first round picks. Good chance that if that was a normal sample size that his stats look a lot better.

Besides, Mazur was 6th on his team. And who is claiming that Foerster will play the same spot for Canada as Mazur will for us?

Is it misleading or is it true?

Including playoffs, Foerster had 15p in 19gp, in a much easier league to score in.

 

[CoSi]

That is so misleading. Foerster was injured and only played 13 games. He was still 4th on his team in PPG, and two of those guys ahead of him were first round picks. Good chance that if that was a normal sample size that his stats look a lot better.

Besides, Mazur was 6th on his team. And who is claiming that Foerster will play the same spot for Canada as Mazur will for us?

Foerster has been practicing on the second line, Mazur's likely spot. Also if you count Olausson and McDonnell, Foerster was 6th in PPG on a very meh team in the OHL. Mazur was tied for 5th on the NCAA. champions

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Is it misleading or is it true?

Including playoffs, Foerster had 15p in 19gp, in a much easier league to score in.

It's true. Stats are true information.

Whether they are misleading is a different discussion, so they can be both.

Foerster in 62 games two years prior was well over a point per game. I think taking a 19 game sample when there is a 62 game sample two years prior that he had a much higher PPG would suggest that the 19 game sample is misleading because his totals would probably be higher if he had a sample of a full season where he barely played any games and wasn't significantly interrupted with injuries.

Besides, I'll say it again. Is Foerster going to play the same role on Canada as Mazur or did you pick out the worst player on the team to try to say he's worse than a guy projected for a top 6 role on the USA?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Foerster has been practicing on the second line, Mazur's likely spot. Also if you count Olausson and McDonnell, Foerster was 6th in PPG on a very meh team in the OHL. Mazur was tied for 5th on the NCAA. champions

You are also talking about a 13 game regular season+6 playoff games sample for Foerster. Two years prior in the OHL he was well above 1PPG. He's also a first round pick. I think if he was picked and he does play a second line role it's with the idea that last season for him was an anomaly and he's the guy that was picked first round and had 80 points (33 more than the next best player on the team) his draft year.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

You are also talking about a 13 game regular season+6 playoff games sample for Foerster. Two years prior in the OHL he was well above 1PPG. He's also a first round pick. I think if he was picked and he does play a second line role it's with the idea that last season for him was an anomaly and he's the guy that was picked first round and had 80 points (33 more than the next best player on the team) his draft year.

You guys are far more knowledgeable on player-vs-player comparisons. I have nothing to add there.

I will say you seem to value draft position way too highly. The *only* criterion guiding roster selection should be who is playing best right now to give our team the best chance to win.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You guys are far more knowledgeable on player-vs-player comparisons. I have nothing to add there.

I will say you seem to value draft position way too highly. The *only* criterion guiding roster selection should be who is playing best right now to give our team the best chance to win.

I’m not sure that’s Mazur either. How do we know McGroarty or others wouldn’t have better stats than Mazur had? It’s not only Mazur either. I don’t want Berard there either. I don’t like the idea of playing secondary tier 19 year olds in big roles. I’d rather have the 2022 and 2023 draft eligibles in those roles.

 

[CoSi]

I’m not sure that’s Mazur either. How do we know McGroarty or others wouldn’t have better stats than Mazur had? It’s not only Mazur either. I don’t want Berard there either. I don’t like the idea of playing secondary tier 19 year olds in big roles. I’d rather have the 2022 and 2023 draft eligibles in those roles.

Better prospect ≠ Better player. The 19 year olds that are picked over the 17 year olds are more developed and currently better. If '22/'23 guys show enough in camp they get picked (Cooley, Nazar, Stramel). In McGroarty's case, he'd be a step behind in this tournament. In the winter he'll be improved with pace and skating and will likely make the team.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Better prospect ≠ Better player. The 19 year olds that are picked over the 17 year olds are more developed and currently better. If '22/'23 guys show enough in camp they get picked (Cooley, Nazar, Stramel). In McGroarty's case, he'd be a step behind in this tournament. In the winter he'll be improved with pace and skating and will likely make the team.

But you miss the point. If Mazur is a decimal better than McGroarty you still have to ask if it’s worth it to finish fourth. If the secondary tier 19 year olds in these big spots aren’t good enough for us to win I’d rather pick a younger team. That’s what other countries do. Why can’t we do that for once in a down year?

 

[Larmer83]

I’m not sure that’s Mazur either. How do we know McGroarty or others wouldn’t have better stats than Mazur had? It’s not only Mazur either. I don’t want Berard there either. I don’t like the idea of playing secondary tier 19 year olds in big roles. I’d rather have the 2022 and 2023 draft eligibles in those roles.

We don't.

It's very simple- Replacing Mazur with McGroarty, or not, will never allow one to know if one or the other would have better stats.

 

[CoSi]

But you miss the point. If Mazur is a decimal better than McGroarty you still have to ask if it’s worth it to finish fourth. If the secondary tier 19 year olds in these big spots aren’t good enough for us to win I’d rather pick a younger team. That’s what other countries do. Why can’t we do that for once in a down year?

What team does that? Pretty much every team is mostly 02s. I believe the US's 3 '22/'23s is the most in the tournament no?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

What team does that? Pretty much every team is mostly 02s. I believe the US's 3 '22/'23s is the most in the tournament no?

Slovakia every year. The up/down relegation teams every year have a lot of players who’ve not yet went through a draft. Czech Republic, Finland, Sweden, Russia, and even Canada, also have taken draft eligibles or even players not yet in their draft eligible season. When was the last time we had two skaters that were first time draft-eligible? We’ve had a few draft-eligible skaters scattered through recent years and then a few backup goalies scattered through recent years.

The only country that seems to think they need to force feed big minutes to 19 year olds every year, no matter how good those players are, is the USA.

 

[MosTLucky]

Faber - C
Slaggert - A
Bordeleau - A

 

[Bonin21]

I think there are still a lot of people that don't know how good Faber is.