WJC: 2022 Team Russia roster talk

[Yakushev72]

Dont you thnk that the exiled Russian players that have been snubbed for international junior competitions are going to be a bit bitter once comes time to represent their country in major international events such as the olympics or world championships?

Problem is that the Russian hockey federation thinks the KHL is as good or can become as good as the NHL, what is rather laughable or desillusional to me. While the KHL is easily the 2nd best men league in the world, thats still miles away from the NHL level. Trying to dismiss their own kids that dreams to play in the top league of the world will come back to haunt them more than anything IMO. The way SKA treated Romanov once they knew his real intentions was very very small being.

The job of the Russian Hockey Federation is to improve Russian hockey. Once you are committed to leave the country to seek your fortune, why should the RHF care about promoting your interests? Why should the RHF help to build the fortunes of the Edmonton Oilers or New York Rangers? When there is an international tournament, the RHF has a vested interest in showcasing the quality of Russian hockey. Whether a state of quality or excellence exists (it certainly DOES NOT exist now) is beside the point. They are tasked with building a state of excellence, and the record of Russian hockey since 1992 shows that picking players from North America to represent Russia in tournaments doesn't work.

An obvious exception to this policy would be if the NHL decided to compete in the Olympics. Since all the best Russian hockey players play in the NHL, it would make sense to make an exception in that case. Bot not at U20 or younger. The vast majority of kids who go to North America fail to win a steady job in the NHL, and if they don't quit hockey altogether, they may come knocking on the doors of Russian teams. So better not burn the bridges!

 

[Atas2000]

Nothing. Just read your own, earlier posts and think again. My point was that Saros was miles ahead Askarov at the same age and that I don't get the hype. Saros was actually good, really good. Askarov is simply bad and has almost been bad in every game for Russia at the u-20 level.

The failure in your logic is hilariously simple. They start playing hockey a bit earlier than the U20 level. Your point is absolute nonsense. Askarov got the hype when he was playing below U20 level still. And he deserved all the hype. Trying to tell he was bad then is just silly. And you simply try to "prove" your point by ripping everything out of context and comparing some random short stretch in a players development(U20 level). You are basically saying nothing.

Askarov was bad at U20 level. So?
Saros was good at U20 level. So?
Askarov was phenomenal at U17 and U18 level. So?

What exactly do those facts prove?

Two years ago? You wrote this today. Are you kidding me right now? Allow me to fresh your memory down below:
I wrote "Saros was even better than Askarov at the same age, actually? Even a lot better."
Your answer? "Not really."

Okay, whatever makes you happy.

You are not very good at logic. A lot of people aren't nowadays. Your argument (again) was that Askarov won't possibly takes Saros' spot because Saros was better at the same age. But what age? Askarov was better than anybody else at 17. Again you are making it look like a very short stretch defines what a goalie prospect will become. Claiming that Saros was clearly batter at 19 is bold as Saros wasn't the best goalie in the draft or something. And nothing suggests Askarov won't develop nicely. Especially goalies are not easy to predict. Nobody claims Askarov will replace Saros just because. And Askarov's play right now just shows he has fallen off from a slam dunk prospect status to in need of a lot of work status. You claim that Saros was a lot better is an exaggeration you need to hepl your cause.And just because he is now 26 and we can work with a body of evidence does not mean his devlopment was predictable at 19. It's easy to claim a 26y.o. NHL starter is/was great all the way, especially when you are trying to make a case against a struggling 19 year old prospect. Let's talk about it in 7 years. IF Askarov is still bad in 7 years, then we could be talking. If he is good to great though it would be still just the most normal thing to happen with players.

 

[Zine]

Dont you thnk that the exiled Russian players that have been snubbed for international junior competitions are going to be a bit bitter once comes time to represent their country in major international events such as the olympics or world championships?

Problem is that the Russian hockey federation thinks the KHL is as good or can become as good as the NHL, what is rather laughable or desillusional to me. While the KHL is easily the 2nd best men league in the world, thats still miles away from the NHL level. Trying to dismiss their own kids that dreams to play in the top league of the world will come back to haunt them more than anything IMO. The way SKA treated Romanov once they knew his real intentions was very very small being.

The job of the Russian Hockey Federation is to improve Russian hockey. Once you are committed to leave the country to seek your fortune, why should the RHF care about promoting your interests? Why should the RHF help to build the fortunes of the Edmonton Oilers or New York Rangers? When there is an international tournament, the RHF has a vested interest in showcasing the quality of Russian hockey. Whether a state of quality or excellence exists (it certainly DOES NOT exist now) is beside the point. They are tasked with building a state of excellence, and the record of Russian hockey since 1992 shows that picking players from North America to represent Russia in tournaments doesn't work. The vast majority of kids who go to North America fail to win a steady job in the NHL, and if they don't quit hockey altogether, they may come knocking on the doors of Russian teams. So better not burn the bridges!

Nobodys punishing anybody. And players situated in NA have helped Russian teams immensely in the past.

This all stems from a crazy narrative (priamrily in NA) that every Russian kid who is good in the CHL deserves to be on the team. Or that Russia is playing politics because their favorite prospect is ommitted.
This crap happens every year. It's a reflection of how insular the NHL is.

It's all nonsense. Don't fall for it.

 

[Svedu]

The failure in your logic is hilariously simple. They start playing hockey a bit earlier than the U20 level. Your point is absolute nonsense. Askarov got the hype when he was playing below U20 level still. And he deserved all the hype. Trying to tell he was bad then is just silly. And you simply try to "prove" your point by ripping everything out of context and comparing some random short stretch in a players development(U20 level). You are basically saying nothing.

Askarov was bad at U20 level. So?
Saros was good at U20 level. So?
Askarov was phenomenal at U17 and U18 level. So?

What exactly do those facts prove?


You are not very good at logic. A lot of people aren't nowadays. Your argument (again) was that Askarov won't possibly takes Saros' spot because Saros was better at the same age. But what age? Askarov was better than anybody else at 17. Again you are making it look like a very short stretch defines what a goalie prospect will become. Claiming that Saros was clearly batter at 19 is bold as Saros wasn't the best goalie in the draft or something. And nothing suggests Askarov won't develop nicely. Especially goalies are not easy to predict. Nobody claims Askarov will replace Saros just because. And Askarov's play right now just shows he has fallen off from a slam dunk prospect status to in need of a lot of work status. You claim that Saros was a lot better is an exaggeration you need to hepl your cause.And just because he is now 26 and we can work with a body of evidence does not mean his devlopment was predictable at 19. It's easy to claim a 26y.o. NHL starter is/was great all the way, especially when you are trying to make a case against a struggling 19 year old prospect. Let's talk about it in 7 years. IF Askarov is still bad in 7 years, then we could be talking. If he is good to great though it would be still just the most normal thing to happen with players.

Listen and read closely. I wrote that Saros is and was better at the same age as Askarov is now, it's not even up for debate. You didn't agree and that´s fine. But please, don't try to twist and turn like a child just because you are getting mad after his performances and the fact that your comment didn't age that well. It's fine.

Facts prove that you didn't agree with me regarding Saros vs Askarov.
Saros was better then, now and probably for a long future ahead. He's a great goalie in the NHL as well. Just like Vasilievsky was great at every stage.
That is quite a big factor speaking against Askarov at this moment and actually has been for at least two years. If you don't believe me then don't, I just don't give a f*ck anymore. Not after your constant arguments when you cant even stand behind your word and earlier posts.
Your logics is what? To write something, and then just make a turn and not stand behind anything you've written earlier? Good one bud.

 

[Atas2000]

Tankov played ok, as Svechkov and Chibrikov. As to Demidov, he adds some grittness to the line, but yeah, his skill isn't top6 calibre on this Team Russia. I'd try Pashin on that line instead of Demidov.

Tankov played ok and was doing his job, but on a line with Top6 guys who could be complemented by a much better player. And I don't like the chemistry between Chibrikov and Svechkov. They are just playing different brands of hockey while they are good each for himself.

Pashin is one viable option.

If they put Khus at C I'd want to see something like

Svechkov(based on the fact tehy played him as LW) - Khus - Michkov
Chibrikov - Guslistov - Yurov
Demidov - Ponomaryov - Pashin

 

[Atas2000]

Zubov needs to get control of the team before anything else. These kids can't continue taking stupid penalty after stupid penalty, and at the worst times.....and especially with the goaltending situation.

This is a team of confusion. No goaltending, no discipline, very little cohesion.

Well, some penalties were on the refs really. Both 5 on 3's were one real penalty and one the refs pulled out of their arses. They still need to play a more disciplined game.

The best solution would be to put Filatov in charge. His teams at least know how to exit the zone properly and are not dumping the puck along the boards a hundred times per period. Won't happen sadly. And it's sad, that a former great defenceman Zubov can't work out the break out and D to O transition.

Goaltending is expectedly worse than in recent years. And no cohesion is exactly due to the most stupid line-combos I have ever seen. Sometimes you get a player wrong when projectin lines, sometimes coches come up with an interesting line. But this is just everything turned upside down.

 

[Svedu]

The failure in your logic is hilariously simple. They start playing hockey a bit earlier than the U20 level. Your point is absolute nonsense. Askarov got the hype when he was playing below U20 level still. And he deserved all the hype. Trying to tell he was bad then is just silly. And you simply try to "prove" your point by ripping everything out of context and comparing some random short stretch in a players development(U20 level). You are basically saying nothing.

Askarov was bad at U20 level. So?
Saros was good at U20 level. So?
Askarov was phenomenal at U17 and U18 level. So?

What exactly do those facts prove?


You are not very good at logic. A lot of people aren't nowadays. Your argument (again) was that Askarov won't possibly takes Saros' spot because Saros was better at the same age. But what age? Askarov was better than anybody else at 17. Again you are making it look like a very short stretch defines what a goalie prospect will become. Claiming that Saros was clearly batter at 19 is bold as Saros wasn't the best goalie in the draft or something. And nothing suggests Askarov won't develop nicely. Especially goalies are not easy to predict. Nobody claims Askarov will replace Saros just because. And Askarov's play right now just shows he has fallen off from a slam dunk prospect status to in need of a lot of work status. You claim that Saros was a lot better is an exaggeration you need to hepl your cause.And just because he is now 26 and we can work with a body of evidence does not mean his devlopment was predictable at 19. It's easy to claim a 26y.o. NHL starter is/was great all the way, especially when you are trying to make a case against a struggling 19 year old prospect. Let's talk about it in 7 years. IF Askarov is still bad in 7 years, then we could be talking. If he is good to great though it would be still just the most normal thing to happen with players.

Just go back and watch the tournament played 2014. Your lost head will hopefully recognize Saros talent and that the level of his performances is nothing Askarov has been close to repeat. Actually, that happened when Saros was one year younger than Askarov is now. So you don't have any valid points regarding Askarov. Just stop it by now, getting embarrassing.

 

[Yakushev72]

Nobodys punishing anybody. And players situated in NA have helped Russian teams immensely in the past.

This all stems from a crazy narrative (priamrily in NA) that every Russian kid who is good in the CHL deserves to be on the team. Or that Russia is playing politics because their favorite prospect is ommitted.
This crap happens every year. It's a reflection of how insular the NHL is.

It's all nonsense. Don't fall for it.

It's not punishment, it's reward!. They are rewarding the kids who chose to help develop hockey as a home-grown sport. And remember, I plainly said that I am only speculating that this is what is going on. They haven't formally announced such a policy. Below the senior level, I totally disagree with your statement that NA-based players have helped Russian teams "immensely" in the past. Russia's record in international tournaments since the early 1990's just flatly refutes your statement!

 

[Atas2000]

Maybe an unpopular opinion in this thread, but I don’t really think the Russian skaters were outplayed that badly. The difference was stick discipline, and that Wallstedt had a solid game, while the Russians goalies were letting rubber between their legs like mid 80s Madonna

I don't think anybody thinks they were outplayed badly. In fact if we were Canadians we'd claim we dominated(we outshot them, right? Right?). Russia had the upper hand 5 on 5 most of the time. It's just the goalies weren't good, but that was expected. And too many penalties.

 

[Atas2000]

maybe its znarok to blame, not zubov?

How? He is not even the head coach? Also he never came up with line-combos that stupid on his teams IIRC.

 

[kp61c]

It's not punishment, it's reward!. They are rewarding the kids who chose to help develop hockey as a home-grown sport. And remember, I plainly said that I am only speculating that this is what is going on. They haven't formally announced such a policy. Below the senior level, I totally disagree with your statement that NA-based players have helped Russian teams "immensely" in the past. Russia's record in international tournaments since the early 1990's just flatly refutes your statement!

Yes, they reward them by punishing kids playing in NA. This master-plan has rotenberg's prints all over it. It is nonsensical but isn't unexpected.

 

[Atas2000]

Dont you thnk that the exiled Russian players that have been snubbed for international junior competitions are going to be a bit bitter once comes time to represent their country in major international events such as the olympics or world championships?

Who the F. cares? It is sports. You have to perform. They don't perform at a level they should be taken ahead of the players on this roster no matter what. Should we now worry about every 4th liner getting bitter over not being invited to the NT?

Problem is that the Russian hockey federation thinks the KHL is as good or can become as good as the NHL,

It's what you think or maybe some NA writers who put this kind of nonsense in your head.

what is rather laughable or desillusional to me.

Neither of both. It is just a way more serious project than one that could be completed in 10 years or so. And given what cancer to hockey the NHL has become I would pay real money just to help it happen. Only I unlike som many truly delusional people am willing to wait. Even it won't happen in my life time it is a goal worth striving for.

While the KHL is easily the 2nd best men league in the world, thats still miles away from the NHL level. Trying to dismiss their own kids that dreams to play in the top league of the world will come back to haunt them more than anything IMO.

1.Those kids ave the wrong dreams, but it's a different topic.
2.Nobody in any shape or form prevents them from spending their career in the NHL if they want it. What's the point of discussion then?

The way SKA treated Romanov once they knew his real intentions was very very small being.

Romanov never played for SKA for starters.

How was he treated? He was always getting the red carpet treatment in Russia.

His decision to leave was stupid AF. He is a stupid, inexperineced boy. He will have to man up and live with the consequences of quite a few of his stupid decisions(not only the hockey related ones). It is actually the price of the freedom of choice nobody ever took from him. It is just sad Russia is losing another promisisng prospect over that.

 

[Fantomas]

Problem is that the Russian hockey federation thinks the KHL is as good or can become as good as the NHL, what is rather laughable or desillusional to me.

Love to invent things in my mind and get mad about it.

 

[Boonk]

Who the F. cares? It is sports. You have to perform. They don't perform at a level they should be taken ahead of the players on this roster no matter what. Should we now worry about every 4th liner getting bitter over not being invited to the NT?


It's what you think or maybe some NA writers who put this kind of nonsense in your head.


Neither of both. It is just a way more serious project than one that could be completed in 10 years or so. And given what cancer to hockey the NHL has become I would pay real money just to help it happen. Only I unlike som many truly delusional people am willing to wait. Even it won't happen in my life time it is a goal worth striving for.


1.Those kids ave the wrong dreams, but it's a different topic.
2.Nobody in any shape or form prevents them from spending their career in the NHL if they want it. What's the point of discussion then?


Romanov never played for SKA for starters.

How was he treated? He was always getting the red carpet treatment in Russia.

His decision to leave was stupid AF. He is a stupid, inexperineced boy. He will have to man up and live with the consequences of quite a few of his stupid decisions(not only the hockey related ones). It is actually the price of the freedom of choice nobody ever took from him. It is just sad Russia is losing another promisisng prospect over that.

You continously crying over Russian players leaving to the NHL is hilarious.

 

[Gravity]

Man Michkov is scary good.

 

[Yakushev72]

Yes, they reward them by punishing kids playing in NA. This master-plan has rotenberg's prints all over it. It is nonsensical but isn't unexpected.

Rotenberg is not that smart! And don't call it punishment. That implies that something is being withdrawn or taken away from someone that they are entitled to. No one is entitled to a roster spot on the national team. I personally favor national teams that stay together, off and on, for 9 or 10 months each year. For example, you could have an U20 national team that plays a regular schedule in the VHL or KHL, and practices as a team most or all of the year. And someone could not make it to practice if they played 8,000 miles away in North America, so they make a personal decision to eliminate themselves from national team participation.

No one should begrudge kids that are adventurous enough to go to North America to earn big money in the NHL. If they could make an NHL roster, they would earn somewhere between 4 and 10 times more money than they could make in the KHL. More power to them, but they are not entitled to have a spot held for them on the national team. As I said, I have no idea if this is an actual strategy of the RHF or not, but if it is, I am in favor of it!

 

[Kshahdoo]

Rotenberg is not that smart! And don't call it punishment. That implies that something is being withdrawn or taken away from someone that they are entitled to. No one is entitled to a roster spot on the national team. I personally favor national teams that stay together, off and on, for 9 or 10 months each year. For example, you could have an U20 national team that plays a regular schedule in the VHL or KHL, and practices as a team most or all of the year. And someone could not make it to practice if they played 8,000 miles away in North America, so they make a personal decision to eliminate themselves from national team participation.

No one should begrudge kids that are adventurous enough to go to North America to earn big money in the NHL. If they could make an NHL roster, they would earn somewhere between 4 and 10 times more money than they could make in the KHL. More power to them, but they are not entitled to have a spot held for them on the national team. As I said, I have no idea if this is an actual strategy of the RHF or not, but if it is, I am in favor of it!

If Russian kids wanna play in the CHL, then they should learn to play hockey the same way as their Canadian peers, for their parents' money. It's kinda unfair to play hockey for 10 years for Russian tax payers' money and then go to NA.

On the other hand this law Russian parliament is going to approve is idiotic.

 

[Yakushev72]

If Russian kids wanna play in the CHL, then they should learn to play hockey the same way as their Canadian peers, for their parents' money. It's kinda unfair to play hockey for 10 years for Russian tax payers' money and then go to NA.

On the other hand this law Russian parliament is going to approve is idiotic.

I absolutely agree with what you said. I am not familiar with the law in parliament that you speak of.

 

[Kshahdoo]

I absolutely agree with what you said. I am not familiar with the law in parliament that you speak of.

Players should pay compensations to hockey schools/clubs, if they left Russia before age 23.

 

[Fantomas]

Players should pay compensations to hockey schools/clubs, if they left Russia before age 23.

lol nah

 

[ViD]

Russian young defensemen should and actually MUST go to North America as soon as they can.

And we must admit our current hockey schools can’t produce defensemen successfully capable of playing against NA teams on small ice. There are very few exceptions like Romanov.

The two games this year has shows our d men are absolutely unable to adequately clear the zone and cause a lot of turnovers that are game breakers.

We need to stop being selfish and admit areas where we are way behind Canadians right now - dominant d men able to play two way game 25+ minutes a night and defensively sound centers with good face offs.

 

[DivochLubo]

I think canadian centers are more then only defensive. One of biggest problem of some Russian junior teams I have seen this year is lower tempo, too much individual effort, no real tactic. Was last years WJC, EYOG with U17, but U17 at Slovakia look so much more like a team. Fast up, solid combinations at offensive zone. Must be a lot about coaching staff.

 

[Yakushev72]

Players should pay compensations to hockey schools/clubs, if they left Russia before age 23.

If that is a proposed law, I disagree with it. Players should be able to move freely to whatever destination they choose, to North America or otherwise, without any sort of financial penalty. That would in fact constitute punishment. The federation or the government has no right to infringe on the rights of kids who choose to pursue their goals wherever they define them.

On the other hand, let's face it! It is becoming increasingly rare, and unlikely, that Russians will be called "hockey champions." Shoddy performances by Russian teams at the World Championships and World Junior Championships are becoming the norm, something that is expected, given the lack of excellence and incentive to pay the price to get better. It is now commonplace for Russian teams to lack a sufficient number of good hockey players to offer a credible chance to win championships. The RHF, for better or for worse, is the organization that is responsible for fixing those problems. They are doing a shitty job so far, but to turn around a decline, you have to take some risks. As I said, I don't know if it actually is a policy as such, but it seems to me to be perfectly reasonable to organize national teams around players who are based in Russia.

Aside from the fact that being showcased in international tournaments is incredibly valuable to players who are hoping to sign big contracts, and thereby is a strong incentive to help Russia keep the quality of domestic hockey as high as possible, the fact is, despite all of the posters who are saying, "oh my God, if only we had Chayka, the greatest defenseman since Bobby Orr, we wouldn't be losing all these games," it is incredibly hard to get any value out of plucking someone from halfway across the planet and transporting them to somehow fit into the flow of the team. Mixing and matching Russian and NA-based players has been a failure, as evidenced by the fact that the last Gold Medal in the WJC was 2011.

 

[Zine]

If that is a proposed law, I disagree with it. Players should be able to move freely to whatever destination they choose, to North America or otherwise, without any sort of financial penalty. That would in fact constitute punishment. The federation or the government has no right to infringe on the rights of kids who choose to pursue their goals wherever they define them.

.

It's not punishment. It's just paying back what's been invested in you.

These players have been provided everything. For the really good kids, their parents likely havent paid anything in hockey expenses since the kid was probably around 10. This is a luxury most people in the hockey world don't have.
You shouldnt have your entire hockey education paid for then just leave at 18. That's not right.

That said, this law is good in theory. In practice?...yea I dunno.

 

[vorky]

There is a debate about the Russian U23 law. I am not sure people knows the backround. Russia has been investing into hockey so much money in the last decade. Of course, the Russian clubs need to be compensated for development of the prospects. Nobody wants to forbid the players to move abroad. They just want the foreign clubs & agents to have more financial responsibility when luring the Russian kids. As of now, foreign clubs, especially CHL, USHL & NHL do not pay anything to Russian clubs, they just take players & waiting if he becomes good. If not, fine, nothing serious because that foreign club paid nothing to acquire that Russian kid. But, if they are obligated to pay to Russian clubs, they would take it more seriously. Either they will care more about player´s future, so investing into him, or they will skip him (so, he stays in Russia). As Esmatovich says, CSKA offered Chayka & other a five year contract with concrete development plan for that period. But, it is impossible to speak to these players/their parents because they are under a big influence of the agents who promise them all great things if moving abroad. These parents are so radical, do not want to hear anything CSKA (other Russian clubs) propose them - they want to move aboard because agent says it is the best way.

As you know, FHR tried to regulate the problem via rules to agents - without positive results. So, now, they come with that law. As Esmatovich says, if CHL or NHL club is ready to compensate the Russian clubs, no problem with it.

Btw, it is not just Russian´s problem, the same problem is in all European clubs & leagues. Teams acquiring the prospects pay nothing to players´ former clubs. It should not work like that.

NHL Transfer Agreement is not a solution for Russians. Do not even bring it to the debate.