WJC: 2022 Team Russia roster talk

Svedu

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Apr 23, 2019
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I think there are indications that what we have is not a case of selection or non-selection. I think it is a case of a change in policy from the Russian Hockey Federation as to whom shall be allowed to represent Russia in international tournaments. It has been headed in that direction for years. I think they are making a statement that for tournaments involving U20 and younger, except with the rarest exceptions, roster spots will be filled only by players who play in Russian-based leagues, and possibly including neighboring countries such as Kazakhstan or Belarus. The intent, it seems, is to exclude players who migrate to North America to position themselves for the NHL. If that is true, then the debate over whether Miroshnichenko should be on the roster (if quality of hockey player is the only consideration, I absolutely believe that Miroshnichenko should be on the roster) is irrelevant! He is not eligible under such a policy.

The motivation for such an exclusionary policy is very obvious. Having players in the CHL and other NA leagues is of no use or benefit to Russian hockey whatsoever in international tournaments. The last time Russia won a Gold Medal at the WJC was eleven years ago, in 2011. There were no CHL or other NA participants on that roster. The mass exodus of all talented Russian hockey players to the NHL defeats the purpose for providing valuable funding to youth hockey development. It is a matter of all loss and no gain to Russians, unless you want to compile how many assists Panarin compiles year after year.

What? Does Miroshnichenko play in NA? Where did Tarasenko, Orlov and Kuznetsov eventually go? If I remember correctly Orlov already played in the AHL? Provorov played in the WHL and was one of Russias best players at the 2016 WJC´s?
 
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Goldenhands

Slaf_The_Great
Aug 21, 2016
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I think there are indications that what we have is not a case of selection or non-selection. I think it is a case of a change in policy from the Russian Hockey Federation as to whom shall be allowed to represent Russia in international tournaments. It has been headed in that direction for years. I think they are making a statement that for tournaments involving U20 and younger, except with the rarest exceptions, roster spots will be filled only by players who play in Russian-based leagues, and possibly including neighboring countries such as Kazakhstan or Belarus. The intent, it seems, is to exclude players who migrate to North America to position themselves for the NHL. If that is true, then the debate over whether Miroshnichenko should be on the roster (if quality of hockey player is the only consideration, I absolutely believe that Miroshnichenko should be on the roster) is irrelevant! He is not eligible under such a policy.

The motivation for such an exclusionary policy is very obvious. Having players in the CHL and other NA leagues is of no use or benefit to Russian hockey whatsoever in international tournaments. The last time Russia won a Gold Medal at the WJC was eleven years ago, in 2011. There were no CHL or other NA participants on that roster. The mass exodus of all talented Russian hockey players to the NHL defeats the purpose for providing valuable funding to youth hockey development. It is a matter of all loss and no gain to Russians, unless you want to compile how many assists Panarin compiles year after year.

Dont you thnk that the exiled Russian players that have been snubbed for international junior competitions are going to be a bit bitter once comes time to represent their country in major international events such as the olympics or world championships?

Problem is that the Russian hockey federation thinks the KHL is as good or can become as good as the NHL, what is rather laughable or desillusional to me. While the KHL is easily the 2nd best men league in the world, thats still miles away from the NHL level. Trying to dismiss their own kids that dreams to play in the top league of the world will come back to haunt them more than anything IMO. The way SKA treated Romanov once they knew his real intentions was very very small being.
 
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vorky

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Jan 23, 2010
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Dont you thnk that the exiled Russian players that have been snubbed for international junior competitions are going to be a bit bitter once comes time to represent their country in major international events such as the olympics or world championships?

Problem is that the Russian hockey federation thinks the KHL is as good or can become as good as the NHL, what is rather laughable or desillusional to me. While the KHL is easily the 2nd best men league in the world, thats still miles away from the NHL level. Trying to dismiss their own kids that dreams to play in the top league of the world will come back to haunt them MORE than anything IMO. The way SKA treated Romanov once they knew his real intentions was very very small being.
I can say you have zero knowledge of the issue you are talking about.
 

Rabid Ranger

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Feb 27, 2002
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Askarov reminds me a lot of Jonathan Quick. He'll need some help professionally to fully max out his potential. Seems to struggle with the basic aspects of playing his position but can make saves very few can (sometimes self-inflicted). Will be interesting to see how he fares at the NHL level.
 
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kp61c

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Miroshnichenko is overhyped but he is better than Yurov and a bunch of grinders that will populate 2,3,4 lines and that can't generate offence for the live of them.
 

SoundAndFury

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May 28, 2012
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It's the same ones that had Yak as a number one and ignored Panarin as an overager?
Was Yak not the best 18 y.o in the world at the time of the draft? Didn't he play in the KHL and NHL top-6 with reasonable success in D+1? I mean scouts have trouble seeing the future (as most of us do) but I think they are decent enough at evaluating what they have at hand. Especially since Yurov over Miro seems pretty consensus at this point.
 

c9gunner

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I think it is a case of a change in policy from the Russian Hockey Federation
I think the real reason was already mentioned above - the coaching staff simply didn't have a chance to evealuate the NA players during the Subway series (or whatever name they call it now)
 

NatusVincere

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Miro was not once better than Yurov when they did play together for the national team or for their teams in the MHL. Not a second. It’s actually pretty clear why every scout sees Yurov as the better player.
 

Atas2000

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Jan 18, 2011
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I was saying... That Miroshnichenko is a good player and better than some of your current forwards.

Better than who? And based on what? The hype around him or the real data?

What a defensive and bogus answer from the beginning... I still think you have one of the best rosters in this tournament together with Sweden and Canada and yes, I do believe it would be stronger with both Miroshnichenko and some talents who are playing in North America.

Again, based on what? The hype around some players that every year leads to very questionable draft picks by the NHL? Or the closer-is-better? People who know and follow the CHL or NA leagues in general see those Russians doing good there and simply assume they should make the roster while they know little about Russins playing in Russia who might be not worse at least. If any of the defencemen who did not make the roster was a Provorov level prospect they probably would be there(just like Provorov as an underager). But they aren't. They have their weaknesses and the major factor of non-exposure this season just hurts their chances more.

Same for forwards who have nice stats in a junior league and no exposure to russian coahces this season. They just lose out against guys who have a men's leagues resume and numbers in those men's leagues. Not to menion that here too we have quite a number of players playing in Russia(mostly underagers just like the players playing in NA you mean) with beautiful stats in juniors, breakout years and whatnot. And they did ot make the team either. They are less known to the people on this board so they don't understand that situation.

At the same time, I´ve always liked Khusnutdinov, even when a lot of you Russian fans criticized him last year etc.

I never critisized Khus for his overall performance last year, because I was aware he was an underager(entrusted with a big role on a then weaker forward group). This year he looks miles ahead of his former self. Which is not surprising.

With that said, the only name in your roster that could have been overhyped through the years are and still seems to be? Askarov. I laugh at young fanboys who believe he will take Saros spot immediately.

Here we have the same problem. A lot of people just remember his draft and know little about his game since.

Saros was even better than Askarov at the same age, actually? Even a lot better.

Not really.

Still, Vasilievsky is the best ever in my opinion and Askarov isn't remotely close.

The actual difference is Vasilevskiy's performance at the WJC. He was brilliant and never had such a dip in his development curve. And people tend to fall into trends. Just becasue there were so many great russian goalies lately there is no guarantee this trend will continue. But they tend to expect an elite russian goalie prospect to emerge every other year. This all does not mean though Askarov can't find his feet and get back on track.

There are a lot of goalies I've considered better than Askarov at the WJC`s. For example? Luukkonen, Saros, Vasilievsky, Gibson, probably Spencer Knight as well, Lehner, Markström, Dostal, Samsonov, Shestyorkin . Is Askarov even a lot better than Miftakhov at the same stage? I mean compare him to Makarov as well, who actually played well for Russia in two tournaments.

Only Askarov has not played in his actual birth year WJC yet. So it is sort of a moot argument for now. Let's talk after the WJC about all those people being better at WJC.
 

Svedu

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Apr 23, 2019
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Better than who? And based on what? The hype around him or the real data?



Again, based on what? The hype around some players that every year leads to very questionable draft picks by the NHL? Or the closer-is-better? People who know and follow the CHL or NA leagues in general see those Russians doing good there and simply assume they should make the roster while they know little about Russins playing in Russia who might be not worse at least. If any of the defencemen who did not make the roster was a Provorov level prospect they probably would be there(just like Provorov as an underager). But they aren't. They have their weaknesses and the major factor of non-exposure this season just hurts their chances more.

Same for forwards who have nice stats in a junior league and no exposure to russian coahces this season. They just lose out against guys who have a men's leagues resume and numbers in those men's leagues. Not to menion that here too we have quite a number of players playing in Russia(mostly underagers just like the players playing in NA you mean) with beautiful stats in juniors, breakout years and whatnot. And they did ot make the team either. They are less known to the people on this board so they don't understand that situation.



I never critisized Khus for his overall performance last year, because I was aware he was an underager(entrusted with a big role on a then weaker forward group). This year he looks miles ahead of his former self. Which is not surprising.



Here we have the same problem. A lot of people just remember his draft and know little about his game since.



Not really.



The actual difference is Vasilevskiy's performance at the WJC. He was brilliant and never had such a dip in his development curve. And people tend to fall into trends. Just becasue there were so many great russian goalies lately there is no guarantee this trend will continue. But they tend to expect an elite russian goalie prospect to emerge every other year. This all does not mean though Askarov can't find his feet and get back on track.



Only Askarov has not played in his actual birth year WJC yet. So it is sort of a moot argument for now. Let's talk after the WJC about all those people being better at WJC.

Based on seeing him play for Russia in different games and tournaments. Simple, I trust my eyes. I trusted my eyes when I saw a young Kuznetsov, young Aho, young Teräväinen and a young Pastrnak and actually young Tatar as well etc.
Tatar had some individual skill and good skating. I see some similar traits in the young Russian. He stands out with his speed and skill. As I said, I do think you have a great roster but I still believe he could've been an asset. Why is it so difficult to accept or understand?

Regarding Khusnutdinov? Have I claimed that you are responsible for those negative writings about him? I wrote "many Russian fans" in here last year, nowhere did I point out yourself.

Listen here, I watched Saros play two tournaments. Finland won against Sweden and others only because of the individuals and their defensive system. Those were Saros and Teräväinen. Finland had a weaker roster than Russia has now and had with Askarov in the net in earlier tournaments.
Finlands second best and third best forward were Lehkonen and Mäenalanen. That says a whole lot. Yeah Lindell was good as well but no Heiskanen, Heinola nor Niemelä.
Ristolainen made only some specific good things but wasn't anything special in that tournament. Actually looked quite sluggish if I remember it correctly.
My point? I´ve never seen two players carry a team like Saros and Teräväinen did with Finland and Kuznetsov and Tarasenko did for Russia. So, you are just wrong here. Saros was and still is a better goalie than Askarov and he has a whole lot to show before we can consider him being at the same level as Saros were.

Yeah, agreed. Let's talk after the tournament. Let's see if he can be the biggest reason to why Russia wins gold just as Saros was for his Finland.
 
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Atas2000

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Based on seeing him play for Russia in different games and tournaments. Simple, I trust my eyes. I trusted my eyes when I saw a young Kuznetsov, young Aho, young Teräväinen and a young Pastrnak etc.
He stands out with his speed and skill. As I said, I do think you have a great roster but I still believe he could've been an asset. Why is it so difficult to accept or understand?
Miroshnichenko looked like a 4th liner in the most recent U20 NT tournament. His name just wouldn't come up in the commentary even. He was nearly invisible. And it wasn't against WJC level opposition even. He was sent there to be together with Yurov one of the leaders on that roster. Yurov delivered, Miroshnichenko didn't. Simple facts.

Also there is nothing wrong with giving a kid a kick in the butt and send a message. If he responds correctly he should be on the team next year.
 

Svedu

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Miroshnichenko looked like a 4th liner in the most recent U20 NT tournament. His name just wouldn't come up in the commentary even. He was nearly invisible. And it wasn't against WJC level opposition even. He was sent there to be together with Yurov one of the leaders on that roster. Yurov delivered, Miroshnichenko didn't. Simple facts.

Also there is nothing wrong with giving a kid a kick in the butt and send a message. If he responds correctly he should be on the team next year.

Nothing against your last comments though. But I like Yurov as well. Not comparing with him, Khusnutdinov nor Michkov. But let's agree to disagree. The end.
 

Atas2000

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Zubov should be fired on the spot for his line combos. The only reason this team is not realizing it's potential are the lines. The idea of spreading talent is not working.

How many chances will Demidov squander throughout the tournament Khus and Michkov create for him? And it's not Demidov's fault. He just should not be on the top line.

Svechkov and Chibrikov are looking good, but they are not working well together. And then again, whoever was third on that line just dragged it down.

Yurov looks great. What is he doing on the 4th line?

If Zubov does not realize it is not working he is a bad coach or a stubborn idiot who can't admit he was wrong and try something different.

The only thing he did right was putting Guskov in net. Guskov is not the savior, but he is better than Askarov right here right now.
 
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Svedu

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The way he is playing right now he should not be in the top10. This is exactly the hype problem.

Well... I would take it easy if I were you. Do you yourself want to hype up Askarov after this game? Like you did earlier if I remember correctly?
 

Atas2000

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Well... I would take it easy if I were you. Do you yourself want to hype up Askarov after this game? Like you did earlier if I remember correctly?
What does Askarov has to do with Miroshnochenko?

What is your problem with understanding the concept ot prospects going through develoment? Askarov was brillinat at 17. That was two years ago and since that he hit the wall and everybody and their dog know that in Russia. What should I have done 2 years ago? Say that Askarov is garbage when he was playing lights out?
 

Svedu

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Apr 23, 2019
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What does Askarov has to do with Miroshnochenko?

What is your problem with understanding the concept ot prospects going through develoment? Askarov was brillinat at 17. That was two years ago and since that he hit the wall and everybody and their dog know that in Russia. What should I have done 2 years ago? Say that Askarov is garbage when he was playing lights out?

Nothing. Just read your own, earlier posts and think again. My point was that Saros was miles ahead Askarov at the same age and that I don't get the hype. Saros was actually good, really good. Askarov is simply bad and has almost been bad in every game for Russia at the u-20 level.

Two years ago? You wrote this today. Are you kidding me right now? Allow me to fresh your memory down below:
I wrote "Saros was even better than Askarov at the same age, actually? Even a lot better."
Your answer? "Not really."

Okay, whatever makes you happy.
 

Kshahdoo

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Zubov should be fired on the spot for his line combos. The only reason this team is not realizing it's potential are the lines. The idea of spreading talent is not working.

How many chances will Demidov squander throughout the tournament Khus and Michkov create for him? And it's not Demidov's fault. He just should not be on the top line.

Svechkov and Chibrikov are looking good, but they are not working well together. And then again, whoever was third on that line just dragged it down.

Yurov looks great. What is he doing on the 4th line?

If Zubov does not realize it is not working he is a bad coach or a stubborn idiot who can't admit he was wrong and try something different.

The only thing he did right was putting Guskov in net. Guskov is not the savior, but he is better than Askarov right here right now.

Tankov played ok, as Svechkov and Chibrikov. As to Demidov, he adds some grittness to the line, but yeah, his skill isn't top6 calibre on this Team Russia. I'd try Pashin on that line instead of Demidov.
 

Preposterone

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Maybe an unpopular opinion in this thread, but I don’t really think the Russian skaters were outplayed that badly. The difference was stick discipline, and that Wallstedt had a solid game, while the Russians goalies were letting rubber between their legs like mid 80s Madonna
 
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Zine

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Feb 28, 2002
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Zubov should be fired on the spot for his line combos. The only reason this team is not realizing it's potential are the lines. The idea of spreading talent is not working.

How many chances will Demidov squander throughout the tournament Khus and Michkov create for him? And it's not Demidov's fault. He just should not be on the top line.

Svechkov and Chibrikov are looking good, but they are not working well together. And then again, whoever was third on that line just dragged it down.

Yurov looks great. What is he doing on the 4th line?

If Zubov does not realize it is not working he is a bad coach or a stubborn idiot who can't admit he was wrong and try something different.

The only thing he did right was putting Guskov in net. Guskov is not the savior, but he is better than Askarov right here right now.

Zubov needs to get control of the team before anything else. These kids can't continue taking stupid penalty after stupid penalty, and at the worst times.....and especially with the goaltending situation.

This is a team of confusion. No goaltending, no discipline, very little cohesion.
 
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kp61c

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Guskov should start. Askarov was slip sliding around continually. Surely the coaches on the Russian team have access to video clips and matches of players like Chayka and Petrov. They could have been added to the camp as they are already in Canada. Seems a mistake to me. Hopefully the appalling effort Michkov aside from the other night will kick them into action and the coaches have a put a rocket ip their backsides. They should be in contention for gold.
You speak of him like he's a great option. Guskov is a colander.
 

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