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GDT: - 2022 NHL Stanley Cup Playoffs | Page 64 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League
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GDT: 2022 NHL Stanley Cup Playoffs

Tampa might win one more game but there’s absolutely no way they’re winning three at this point.
 
duckpuck said:
Murray knew what their contract expectations were - and Verbeek chose not to negotiated with Manson. That tells you a lot. I think Rakell, Manson and Lindholm were all viewed as part of a failed core - Murray made several comments to that effect (they didn't elevate their games).
Click to expand...

I think you're attributing traits to the wrong players. Lindholm and Manson were injured, not failed nor failed to elevate their games. What the team put on after the TDL disproves they're failed core. Rakell and Rico were deserving of the stink-eye for 2020-21 season. Yet both forwards showed up this past season. When Rakell was traded, his scoring rate bumped up b/c of his playmaking skills. He was still a better goal scorer in an Anaheim uni.

There were two different ways to move forward with our UFA's: keep them or trade them away. The differences between the two paths are time and money. Keeping them reduces the time to becoming relevant again, but it'll be juggling the cap. Trading them away relieves cap concerns (we're under the cap floor), but becoming relevant will take longer to get there.

Murray would have kept them, especially after witnessing Comtois' debacle. Murray traded for Des for the rebuild. If Lindholm went for $6.5 mil AAV, then everyone else would have also been at a comparative bargain rate. The veterans worked out until injuries surfaced again. People forget we were atop the Pacific division before injuries & Covid hit. Although, Murray banked on Drysdale, Mahura, and Benoit for this past season and it failed when all three were on the ice for the same game. We have no idea if Murray would have made an in-season trade to acquire a better defenseman since Murray resigned in Nov.

It's easier to add talents if all four UFA's were kept. Murray's a tinkerer, he doesn't do wholesale changes b/c he values continuity and he's loyal to a fault.

Verbeek traded all four UFA's away for prospects and later value picks. This way is easier to reconstruct the team because he doesn't have to deal with cap issues moving forward. And since the Ducks were missing NHL talent depth, accruing prospects and assets for a year or three can help with that movement. Verbeek's path sets us back a couple of years or so, but there is a silver lining to it if it all pans out.

If Verbeek is able to re-sign Manson, then we got prospect RD Helleson and a 2023 second round pick for free! I doubt it happens b/c burning bridges do occur. Maybe enough money can rebuild bridges? If Manson does want to stick around So Cal, there's another team that has about $20 cap space and set for the playoffs.

What did fail this year is Murray alcoholism that forced him to resign and the lack of quality NHL depth, especially at defense. Maybe a better strength coach/physical coach/medical staff could also be a culprit.
 
Paul4587 said:
Blatant too many men on the GWG.
Click to expand...
Yep. I see all the Avs fans (and others) saying that well… the 6th guy was only a few feet from the bench. Yes, that’s fine as long as the guy replacing him is also standing by the bench doing nothing. The guy replacing him can’t be actively involved in the play, and I don’t mean simply not touching the puck, which seems to be how the officials interpret it these days. It frustrates me to no end when I watch games live, and see how much teams cheat the line change on a regular basis. Just because a guy doesn’t touch the puck doesn’t mean he is legally on the ice. He’s taking space, defensive position, etc.
 
TheGoodShepard1 said:
Many such cases. They’ve gotta find a consistent standard for the implementation of the rule
Click to expand...

Completely agreed. Tampa benefited earlier on in the playoffs. The issue for the NHL here is it’s an overtime game winner in a crucial SCF match.

ADHB said:
Yep. I see all the Avs fans (and others) saying that well… the 6th guy was only a few feet from the bench. Yes, that’s fine as long as the guy replacing him is also standing by the bench doing nothing. The guy replacing him can’t be actively involved in the play, and I don’t mean simply not touching the puck, which seems to be how the officials interpret it these days. It frustrates me to no end when I watch games live, and see how much teams cheat the line change on a regular basis. Just because a guy doesn’t touch the puck doesn’t mean he is legally on the ice. He’s taking space, defensive position, etc.
Click to expand...

Yep. By the time MacKinnon was off the ice Kadri had almost scored. I believe it was 4 seconds they were both on the ice at the same time together.
 
If we're making reviews a thing, why not just include too many men on the ice? People are pointing out that TB had 7 skaters, but their players are clearly within a reasonable distance for a change and not even involved in the play. Colorado's players however, are simply not and are absolutely involved in the play.
 
Last edited:
Sean Garrity said:
If we're making reviews a thing, why not just include too many men on the ice? People are point out that TB had 7 skaters, but their players are clearly within a reasonable distance for a change and not even involved in the play. Colorado's players however, are simply not and are absolutely involved in the play.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

I also find it funny people are pointing out Tampa had 7 men, the two men they had coming on were miles behind the play and came on maybe a second before their players got off. MacKinnon who Kadri changed for was still on the ice as he had the puck and was about to score.
 
Hockey Duckie said:
I think you're attributing traits to the wrong players. Lindholm and Manson were injured, not failed nor failed to elevate their games. What the team put on after the TDL disproves they're failed core. Rakell and Rico were deserving of the stink-eye for 2020-21 season. Yet both forwards showed up this past season. When Rakell was traded, his scoring rate bumped up b/c of his playmaking skills. He was still a better goal scorer in an Anaheim uni.

There were two different ways to move forward with our UFA's: keep them or trade them away. The differences between the two paths are time and money. Keeping them reduces the time to becoming relevant again, but it'll be juggling the cap. Trading them away relieves cap concerns (we're under the cap floor), but becoming relevant will take longer to get there.

Murray would have kept them, especially after witnessing Comtois' debacle. Murray traded for Des for the rebuild. If Lindholm went for $6.5 mil AAV, then everyone else would have also been at a comparative bargain rate. The veterans worked out until injuries surfaced again. People forget we were atop the Pacific division before injuries & Covid hit. Although, Murray banked on Drysdale, Mahura, and Benoit for this past season and it failed when all three were on the ice for the same game. We have no idea if Murray would have made an in-season trade to acquire a better defenseman since Murray resigned in Nov.

It's easier to add talents if all four UFA's were kept. Murray's a tinkerer, he doesn't do wholesale changes b/c he values continuity and he's loyal to a fault.

Verbeek traded all four UFA's away for prospects and later value picks. This way is easier to reconstruct the team because he doesn't have to deal with cap issues moving forward. And since the Ducks were missing NHL talent depth, accruing prospects and assets for a year or three can help with that movement. Verbeek's path sets us back a couple of years or so, but there is a silver lining to it if it all pans out.

If Verbeek is able to re-sign Manson, then we got prospect RD Helleson and a 2023 second round pick for free! I doubt it happens b/c burning bridges do occur. Maybe enough money can rebuild bridges? If Manson does want to stick around So Cal, there's another team that has about $20 cap space and set for the playoffs.

What did fail this year is Murray alcoholism that forced him to resign and the lack of quality NHL depth, especially at defense. Maybe a better strength coach/physical coach/medical staff could also be a culprit.
Click to expand...

I've read your post 3 times and have no idea what point your making or trying to make. It seems like a lot of excuses and an awful lot of totally unfounded assumptions of what Murray would or wouldn't have done.

Murray is irrelevant and his track record in rebuilding the roster for the past 3 years is what should have gotten him fired (not just the fact that he was a complete a-hole, possibly worsened due to alcohol). Murray hung on to Rakell and Manson too long (probably Lindholm too) and it bit the ducks in the ass, setting their rebuild back several years.

Rakell underachieved for 3+ consecutive years - that is the player the ducks traded. What he did in his UFA year for the ducks (better but still inconsistent and prone to floating) and/or for Pittsburgh is irrelevant - he was a passenger who was unable to elevate his game as the prior core (Getz, Kesler, Perry) aged out. I would say the same for Manson and to a lesser extent Lindholm.

And the ducks being in first place was a complete mirage - in part because they had played more games than other teams. Gibson stole a lot of games early, the schedule was favorable, and the team over achieved a bit. But at best it was a team that would barely make the playoffs. The goal is to win a cup and trading the UFAs advanced that goal (though personally I would have kept Des).

I am very happy Murray is gone. Verbeek is unproven; but he brings upside Murray would never have in the modern game. Verbeek at least presents the chance that the team will adopt modern practices (e.g. a real analytics department) and make the type of tough decisions Murray never did.

Bergey37 said:
Cogs and Manson are my sole reasons for cheering for the Ans to win it; their names on the Cup overwhelm my hate for Kadri and Landeskog.
Click to expand...
I struggle with this everyday - my hate for Colorado is real - but will be happy to see Cogs and Manson rewarded (especially Cogs). With Perry and Marroon on TB, I can feel good either way.
 
Paul4587 said:
Blatant too many men on the GWG.
Click to expand...

FWIW, the Athletic spoke to several linesman and refs and they would not have called too many men.

"Two former NHL referees contacted by The Athletic who examined the video said that in their opinion this play wasn’t too many men. One former linesman said that while it’s close, loose line changes happen all the time and very few officials would have blown a play like this dead in overtime. He also noted that the Lightning had seven players on the ice, including two players at the bench, like MacKinnon, with the players who came on for them also engaged in the play."


theathletic.com

Russo: Too many men? Cup Final gets a dose of controversy with disputed Avalanche OT goal

The Avalanche took a 3-1 lead over the Lightning in the Stanley Cup Final on Wednesday, but should their final goal have counted?
theathletic.com theathletic.com
 
Tampa should be the last team complaining about controversy. Lol
 
Has anyone here ever played competitive hockey? This happens nearly all the time. It wasn’t blatantly done if both teams were ‘at fault’ here

Just another ‘controversy’ for nothing
 
I don't think it's good for parity in the league to have a team 3peat.
The other major sports in NA haven't had this happen in forever.
Last 3peat in the NBA was like 20 years ago.
 
Smirnov2Chistov said:
Has anyone here ever played competitive hockey? This happens nearly all the time. It wasn’t blatantly done if both teams were ‘at fault’ here

Just another ‘controversy’ for nothing
Click to expand...

I’ve played plenty of competitive hockey and I’m still playing beer league hockey. In my beer league that is a penalty 9 times out of 10 and when I was playing competitively it’s a penalty 10 times out of 10s if it’s picked up.

Both teams weren’t at fault, the Tampa players changed once their guys were within 5 feet of the boards, Kadri jumped on well before MacKinnon was within 5 feet and he scored before MacKinnon was off the ice.

Anaheim4ever said:
I don't think it's good for parity in the league to have a team 3peat.
The other major sports in NA haven't had this happen in forever.
Last 3peat in the NBA was like 20 years ago.
Click to expand...

It’s good for history though, for those born after the Islanders dynasty this is probably the only time we will see a team with a chance at a three peat. I would rather see something historic to be honest. I’m probably biased though in that I really want Perry to win another cup.
 
Anaheim4ever said:
I don't think it's good for parity in the league to have a team 3peat.
The other major sports in NA haven't had this happen in forever.
Last 3peat in the NBA was like 20 years ago.
Click to expand...
i don't have any issues with a team 3-peating

the NBA had the same finals matchup 4 years in a row lol. and if it wasn't for a historic cavs comeback in '16 and durant getting hurt in '19, the warriors win 5 titles in a row at least. now that's something you probably want to avoid in the NHL
 
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