WC: 2022 IIHF World Championship Finland (Russia and Belarus tossed out) No Politics

[ORRFForever]

You better get used to it. I think it will be a long time when they're back. Could be years. We might even forget about them at some point.

I hope not.

 

[jj cale]

Has the NHL been pausing/concluding its seasons to allow the best players to participate in the annual World Championships, just like all the other top hockey leagues from around the world do that? If so, that's news to me. If not (and of course they don't), that's the decades-long sabotage you're asking about.

And no, I don't insist the NHL should be pausing their play-offs. Instead, as mentioned, pause every season for one half of February, playing the World Championships or the Olympic tournament during those two weeks, instead of that ignoble mockery of hockey known under the misnomer of "all-star game".

The regular season is long & arduous enough, so such a two-week break might come in handy for everyone. Yeah, the very best players would get no break but instead get the highest international honor imaginable: play for their country in a true best-on-best tournament each and every year. Those would be the true "all-star games".

You don't seriously expect them to pause or conclude their seasons every year to allow them to partake in this thing do you? playoffs or not playoffs, I don't care.

And I love how you say it would be "a 2 week break" they would welcome. break? ........you just added another 2 weeks of pressure filled, taxing high level hockey to their damn schedule for gods sake, something at least the all star weekend surely isn't. I bet most of the players would want your head on a platter if you were the guy to get this passed.


Is this really serious or just a " I am angry I don't get a real world championship every year and I/we deserve it" rant?If the players (your players included may I add) want the honour of getting to represent their country at the highest level internationally every year they can do that anytime they wish, don't sign to play in the NHL.

Don't forget to rightly spread the blame around, after all...................they don't say no to the money knowing full well all the implications.

They choose money over country, period, perhaps it's not as much an honour to them as you think it is, they sure as hell don't care if you can pay your bills.

Their chief concern is paying theirs, and they make damn sure they can do it, the honour of representing their country at the WHC be damned.

Give them heck your wishes aren't being realized.

 

[JackSlater]

Yeah, but decades have passed since 1977, so...? Plenty of time for the NHL to adjust their schedule, like all the other top-tier hockey leagues around the world do it, to accommodate a true best-on-best international tournament every year (preferably in February).

"So..." the IIHF shot itself in the foot by alienating Canadian and American fans, the exact people that the NHL caters to as its customer base, as it prevented the best players from playing in its tournament all while calling it the world championship. The NHL allows its players to go to the tournament, which is good. Expecting it to amend its schedule for a tournament that the vast majority of its customers don't even care about is nonsense. The NHL not catering to the IIHF is not the same thing as sabotaging the tournament as it clearly there is clearly not deliberate attempt to harm the IIHF tournament.

 

[Jumptheshark]

"So..." the IIHF shot itself in the foot by alienating Canadian and American fans, the exact people that the NHL caters to as its customer base, as it prevented the best players from playing in its tournament all while calling it the world championship. The NHL allows its players to go to the tournament, which is good. Expecting it to amend its schedule for a tournament that the vast majority of its customers don't even care about is nonsense. The NHL not catering to the IIHF is not the same thing as sabotaging the tournament as it clearly there is clearly not deliberate attempt to harm the IIHF tournament.

Sorry. You do not have all the info.

The IIHF has a standing offer to the NHL to host the games every 4 years and move the games to late August into September. DELAYING ALL EUROPEAN LEAGUES. the hang up? NHL WANTS COMPLETE CONTROL of everything including which teams play, getting all the profits and excluding the IIHF in any way shape or form of what they stand for

The problem is not the IIHF the problem is the nhl is greedy

 

[ViD]

You better get used to it. I think it will be a long time when they're back. Could be years. We might even forget about them at some point.

When this conflict is over, hopefully sooner than later, I don’t see why the hockey players should be continuously punished. I believe the Soviet Union team participated in most events when they occupied Afghanistan.

 

[JackSlater]

Sorry. You do not have all the info.

The IIHF has a standing offer to the NHL to host the games every 4 years and move the games to late August into September. DELAYING ALL EUROPEAN LEAGUES. the hang up? NHL WANTS COMPLETE CONTROL of everything including which teams play, getting all the profits and excluding the IIHF in any way shape or form of what they stand for

The problem is not the IIHF the problem is the nhl is greedy

Can't say I've heard of that. I'd certainly like to see where the IIHF made that offer and how the NHL replied. Even if that is true, and at the moment it looks like an if, it is still not "sabotage" that the NHL doesn't accommodate the IIHF. The NHL allows available players to go - it's written in the collective bargaining agreement. If the IIHF decided to hold the tournament at some point when the NHL isn't playing, which I wouldn't suggest, there is nothing there that stops NHL players from attending.

The NHL does a lot of things incorrectly. It has certainly f***ed up its own World Cup tournament. The NHL is not responsible for the failings of the iihf world championship, which can trace their roots right back to the advent of the tournament.

 

[Albatros]

When this conflict is over, hopefully sooner than later, I don’t see why the hockey players should be continuously punished. I believe the Soviet Union team participated in most events when they occupied Afghanistan.

In Afghanistan no side supported the government that had been overthrown by the Soviets. You had the USSR assisting their own puppet government in a civil war against the US-backed Islamist insurgents and China-backed Maoist rebels. All sides essentially considered the Soviet elimination of Premier Amin and his regime good riddance.

 

[jj cale]

Sorry. You do not have all the info.

The IIHF has a standing offer to the NHL to host the games every 4 years and move the games to late August into September. DELAYING ALL EUROPEAN LEAGUES. the hang up? NHL WANTS COMPLETE CONTROL of everything including which teams play, getting all the profits and excluding the IIHF in any way shape or form of what they stand for

The problem is not the IIHF the problem is the nhl is greedy

If true, I'm sure the NHL has a long memory and doesn't care to always do the IIHF favours when it does things such as rule against the league in a dispute with the KHL over a player already under contract (Alexander Radulov with Nashville) and allows the KHL to screw them.

Seems like there is plenty of dirty laundry to go around and it has been pointed out in this thread . The NHL is hardly solely responsible for all the failings of international hockey.

They have had access to all available players in the N.H.L for the WHC for over 4 decades now ever since as has already been noted the IIHF wouldn't even allow them to play. That's quite fair I think, no need for the NHL to bend to their every whim.

It's a business, period.

 

[Albatros]

If someone genuinely sees hockey only as a business that's first and foremost quite sad. Not many kids will start playing hockey because they want to be millionaires one day.

 

[jj cale]

If someone genuinely sees hockey only as a business that's first and foremost quite sad. Not many kids will start playing hockey because they want to be millionaires one day.

We don't, but owners do, should we expect anything less?

 

[Faterson]

We don't, but owners do, should we expect anything less?

Of course. To see only $$$ everywhere as the first priority is pathetic (even though standard in America).

 

[Jumptheshark]

Can't say I've heard of that. I'd certainly like to see where the IIHF made that offer and how the NHL replied. Even if that is true, and at the moment it looks like an if, it is still not "sabotage" that the NHL doesn't accommodate the IIHF. The NHL allows available players to go - it's written in the collective bargaining agreement. If the IIHF decided to hold the tournament at some point when the NHL isn't playing, which I wouldn't suggest, there is nothing there that stops NHL players from attending.

The NHL does a lot of things incorrectly. It has certainly f***ed up its own World Cup tournament. The NHL is not responsible for the failings of the iihf world championship, which can trace their roots right back to the advent of the tournament.

What failing? How often do you go to the games?

 

[Jussi]

If true, I'm sure the NHL has a long memory and doesn't care to always do the IIHF favours when it does things such as rule against the league in a dispute with the KHL over a player already under contract (Alexander Radulov with Nashville) and allows the KHL to screw them.

Actually, it's come out that that was more on Fasel:



Fasel has since his retirement from the IIHF come out as a major sycophant for Russia and Putin. Though he didn't exactly hide it while he was there.

 

[jj cale]

Actually, it's come out that that was more on Fasel:



Fasel has since his retirement from the IIHF come out as a major sycophant for Russia and Putin. Though he didn't exactly hide it while he was there.

I get it, but he was the president of the IIHF so..................

 

[jj cale]

Of course. To see only $$$ everywhere as the first priority is pathetic (even though standard in America).

That's normally how for profit businesses work, everywhere. They aren't the local ladies auxiliary charitable thrift store.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I thought at the time of the Radulov signing the KHL and the NHL did not have an agreement in place about honouring each others contracts? It happened a year later

 

[jj cale]

I thought at the time of the Radulov signing the KHL and the NHL did not have an agreement in place about honouring each others contracts? It happened a year later

I doubt that mattered to the NHL or Nashville since he was already signed to a legally binding contract here.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I doubt that mattered to the NHL or Nashville since he was already signed to a legally binding contract here.

It does matter if the foreign league does not recognise the contract and that is why they needed the agreement. NHL also did not recognise KHL contracts and teams did negotiate with players but did not end up signing them.

 

[jj cale]

It does matter if the foreign league does not recognise the contract and that is why they needed the agreement. NHL also did not recognise KHL contracts and teams did negotiate with players but did not end up signing them.

True enough I suppose.

 

[Jussi]

I thought at the time of the Radulov signing the KHL and the NHL did not have an agreement in place about honouring each others contracts? It happened a year later

IIRC correctly, Kalervo Kummola commented that he personally would've worked to block the move.

 

[Faterson]

That's normally how for profit businesses work, everywhere.

But we're discussing hockey, not "for-profit businesses". To put an equal sign between the two is exactly the (American) fallacy we're criticizing.

To me, hockey (and sports in general) is primarily a form of art. Everyone knows that it would be wrong to judge merit in art by how much money it can earn someone. (Otherwise, you would have to give the Oscar automatically to the highest-grossing movie every year.) Sports should be viewed in the same way – as primarily a cultural, not money-generating enterprise.

 

[jj cale]

But we're discussing hockey, not "for-profit businesses". To put an equal sign between the two is exactly the (American) fallacy we're criticizing.

To me, hockey (and sports in general) is primarily a form of art. Everyone knows that it would be wrong to judge merit in art by how much money it can earn someone. (Otherwise, you would have to give the Oscar automatically to the highest-grossing movie every year.) Sports should be viewed in the same way – as primarily a cultural, not money-generating enterprise.

I thought we were discussing NHL hockey, that is a business.

Sure, hockey as art is great. I would love nothing better then to go back to the days on the lake in my youth playing shinny but that is not what the NHL is. And honestly, as corporate driven as it is, it's a necessary evil because without it and the money that can be made doing it we would have nowhere near the level of hockey we get to see and enjoy, if hockey was simply recreation so few players would put the time and effort into it to be at the level we are used to seeing, they can't do that if they are having to do a 9 to 5 job at the construction site while squeezing in their beloved hobby. The game advanced because of it's professional nature not in spite of it.

You are wishing for something that really can't be, we don't live in heaven.

We have to accept there are pros and cons due to professionalism of sport. I get what you are saying and identify with it but it's not reasonable of us to expect.

 

[Faterson]

You are wishing for something that really can't be [...]

it's not reasonable of us to expect.

That's where we need to agree to disagree. Football is just as money-driven as hockey, yet they manage to organize truly best-on-best international tournaments every 2 years.

If football can do it, so should hockey, and it's reasonable for us to expect and demand it.

 

[Canuckistani]

Weird how the USA wasn't suspended from the 2003 world championship for invading Iraq.

 

[jj cale]

That's where we need to agree to disagree. Football is just as money-driven as hockey, yet they manage to organize truly best-on-best international tournaments every 2 years.

If football can do it, so should hockey, and it's reasonable for us to expect and demand it.

I don't think we are in disagreement on this matter at all, I think hockey should be able to organize a best on best tournament at regular intervals also, maybe not every 2 but every 4 as hockey is just way harder on the body then football with the nature of the sport coupled with it's long schedule especially with 4 round best of 7 playoffs, we don't want to burn these guys out.

I think where we are in disagreement is in when statements are made saying the NHL is solely responsible for SABOTAGING international hockey. Trust me, I know the N.H.L is a problem, but they aren't the only problem. Hell, Russia is more of a problem to having a genuine best on best tournament right now and in the coming years then the N.H.L is.