WJC: 2022 IIHF WM U20 D1A in Hörsholm, Denmark ( december 12 - 18)

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your reading skills r 0/10.


Its simple logical reason to think that players who does good in SHL and Norway league is probaly better players than those doing good in the belarus, latvian and kazaksthani leagues. Becuse of the simple reason that SHL and Norway League are in fact, stronger leagues.

If anything, its you guys who massively underrating SHL and Norway League. All those 8 players i mention in the post 78 is not some bench warmers. They are already having a impact in SHL and Norway League. Undersized or not, it does not matter.
 
Agree on Latvian league (btw its strength is totally irrelevant to their junior programs) and SHL but... Saying that Belarus league is stronger than Norway league makes no sense? Wow. I wonder what makes you think so.
Norway is higher than Belarus in the CHL league ranking and the only reason is that no Belarusian clubs participated this season due to politics.
Rankings
Norway clubs have not played in the continental cup superfinal for years.
I'd say Norway and Belarus leagues are comparable, maybe one could find slight advantages of one of the them. But saying "makes no sense" should mean that those are different tier leagues which simply isn't true.

Swedish junior program is better than Belarus and Latvian junior program as far as i know.

Im not some homer, just look at this thread: What junior leagues are the best?

As you can see i have no trouble admitting that WHL, OHL, MHL, USHL, QMJHL, SM Sarja is better than Swedish junior leagues. But i cant see how Belarus/Latvian/Kazaksthan junior leagues and junior systems are better than Swedens. What is your agument?

Norway league have more imports than the belarussian league. I think that seals it.

Bias :) Don't read into it too much. You are talking to someone who is dead set on the Polish league being better than Slovak one. Or that Sweden is a WJC relegation contender.

I did admit that i was underating the slovakian league. Yes, its better than the polish league.

Sweden is a WJC relegation contender becuse of Monten. And according to you people Sweden have worse junior programs than Belarus, Latvia and Kazaksthan, so Sweden getting relegated should not be a suprise..?


Personally I think the Belorussian league is better than the Norwegian one.

But regardless, the flaw with this discussion is so much more fundamental than that. There's a really oversimplistic view on these boards of "every skater's value is PPG * NHLe." Hockey is really really not that simple. Even in the NHL it's not that simple, GMs are realizing that simply putting together a team of really efficient corsis doesn't actually produce a good team. And that metric isn't a bad place to start, but it doesn't itself actually constitute a detailed analysis of matchups.

I heard on an NHL broadcast the other day and I agree that there are maybe 15 players in a league who drive play wherever they go, and everyone else is looking for a good club situation. There are a lot of different types of hockey players, there are offensive drivers, defensive forwards, space creating forwards, offensive defensemen, defensive defensemen, minute-eating defensemen, etc. Players can have a bad club situation which makes them look statistically worse than they are, they can have a favorable club situation which makes them look better than they are.

No one picked Kazakhstan to win 4 years ago. 3 years ago, Germany was the 2nd favorite behind Belarus. A lot of people, people here, were extremely confident that Belarus was significantly better and would win. No one picked Austria to win 2 years ago. Some of it is the variability of a short tournament, inevitably a small sample size. But a lot of it too is that there's just a lot that you don't know if you haven't actually seen these players. If the margins are large enough, maybe paper stats are adequate. Philip Granath will dominate D2A. Pretty obvious. But Philip Granath will dominate D1A? Just because he was a healthy scratch in 15 SHL games? That's more of a stretch.

I assume you also think that belarus League is better than SHL. :laugh:

Granath have decent amount of playing-time for Rögle. I know his is small, but there is no denying his speed and skill.
 
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Vast majority still spent the majority of their development in the Norway system. And the ones in Sweden r undrafted 19 years old, midgets that dont inspire much imo. Johnsen and wold being the exception.
So what do you know about the Norwegian Development system? And are you talking about Zuccarello or Granath?
 
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SHL is of course a better league, 3rd best in the world. Norway's league is little bit better than Latvia's but not any better than Belarusian and Kazakhstani leagues.

Norway league have more imports than those leagues, so i would give a edge to Norway League. But im not saying latvian, belarus and kazak leagues are horrible or anything. Dont get me wrong.

Yesterdays game proved Latvia is better than Norway. I admit that. But we should keep in mind that Latvia has lots of guys in NA, MHL and some in Sweden. I thought their team was full of Latvian League guys at first. Had to double check.
 
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Last time these two teams met Belarus won 7:2, so this is not that crazy of a fluke as it seems at first glance.
Denmark is not what they used to be. They used to be extraordinary, given the number junior players they have at disposal.
 
https://www.iihf.com/pdf/40/ihm040902_74_3_0 The game reports finally out. Latvia was good allright, but the game as a whole hardly loopsided. Latvia didn't capitalize on a couple of 3 on 1 break-aways but got rewarded by a couple of goals out of nowhere. Norway slightly better in 1st, Latvia clearly better in 2nd and pretty even third. Shots 27-23 in favour of Norway but could probably be more if they didn't suddenly decide to stop shooting in the PPs. Norway'g goalie looked better and better as the game progressed, but he is young and question is if was a wise pick. The game was decided on goaltending IMO, and shouldn't come as a surprise. Big part of the game, and in Norway's case it comes down to having a good day or not. Too often not for the past decade, and maybe the federation should ramp up their goaltending rescources on the natioanl team level.
 
Guys, the Belarusian youth league is not stronger than the Swedish or Finnish youth

league, but these players of the Belarusian national team do not play in the

Belarusian youth league. They play for Dynamo Minsk in the KHL, in the strongest

league in Europe, some play in the Russian youth league, which is stronger than any

European youth league. And those who play in the Belarusian league, this league

is not junior, but adult. In total, all players play at a serious adult level
 
Guys, the Belarusian youth league is not stronger than the Swedish or Finnish youth

league, but these players of the Belarusian national team do not play in the

Belarusian youth league. They play for Dynamo Minsk in the KHL, in the strongest

league in Europe, some play in the Russian youth league, which is stronger than any

European youth league. And those who play in the Belarusian league, this league

is not junior, but adult. In total, all players play at a serious adult level

I count three players in KHL, of which two of them has serious ice-time? But yeah, the Belarusian league is probably underrated. Lars Haugen GK for Norway played there for some years with a nice development.
 
Of the entire roster, only 8 people play in junior teams

(2 -can, 1-usa, 3-rus, 2-blr). The rest play

at an adult professional level. Denmark is not

a rival for them in this tournament, yesterday

the Belarusian players also did not score 2 lacrosse goals)
 
Lars Haugen is a very good goalkeeper,

he played in the KHl in Dinamo Minsk

and in the Belarusian championship
 
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Common sense suggests that a player doing good in SHL and Norway league should be better than players doing good in Latvian League and Belarus League. Thats not always the case, but in general it is. The reason is simple. SHL and Norway league are much better leagues than Latvian and Belarus Leagues.
Dont know when you insist on arguing "common sense." When we already saw the result, Latvia won.

In fact your facts are all pretty wrong. The Latvian players dont come from the Latvian league, the Norwegian players really cant be described as "doing well" in the SHL, and again, Latvia won. So this "common sense" had no predictive value.
 
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Dont know when you insist on arguing "common sense." When we already saw the result, Latvia won.

In fact your facts are all pretty wrong. The Latvian players dont come from the Latvian league, the Norwegian players really cant be described as "doing well" in the SHL, and again, Latvia won. So this "common sense" had no predictive value.

Well, any team can have a bad game. :D
 
Dont know when you insist on arguing "common sense." When we already saw the result, Latvia won.

In fact your facts are all pretty wrong. The Latvian players dont come from the Latvian league, the Norwegian players really cant be described as "doing well" in the SHL, and again, Latvia won. So this "common sense" had no predictive value.
Eye of Ra replied that the he or she recognized the Latvian team had a lot of NA players, so this type of argumentation is not very constructive in my opinion. And what implies doing well for a junior player in SHL is up for grabs. Norway is not Sweden, but we have three players logging steady minutes. There are two players under 18 with four points or more in SHL and 10 U20s with more than four points . If you are "doing well" by your standards you're a first rounder basically. This guy is doing well: Simon Edvinsson at eliteprospects.com
 
Norway - Kazakhstan game brings more clarity as to who is who of this division.

So, with all due respect, Norway looks like the 3rd best team and that's while being a little cocky regarding Kazakhstan, which has 3 players with KHL caps and their entire team playing against grown men in the Kazakshstani league.
Much like kabidjan said, the fact player plays in the x league alone doesn't mean much and we have the best example today. At the end of the day most of Kazakh guys play there because Barys MHL team had to move somewhere, rather than on merit.

P.S. Another soft goal by Norwegian goalie.
 
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Shots in the 2nd period was 23-2 for Norway, 28-5 after second and now it is 4-2 and game on. This shouldn't be possible.
 
Norway - Kazakhstan game brings more clarity as to who is who of this division.


Much like kabidjan said, the fact player plays in the x league alone doesn't mean much and we have the best example today. At the end of the day most of Kazakh guys play there because Barys MHL team had to move somewhere, rather than on merit.

P.S. Another soft goal by Norwegian goalie.
I don't understand how it's possible that Kazakhstan is losing when they have 2 KHL players...

Joking aside, looks like Latvia will have a chance to clinch on Wednesday.
 
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Overall, I feel 5-2 is a pretty fair result. 2 equal periods and one completely dominated by Norway.
 
Pavlenko was good, and they had some good breakaways. I think Stensrud was totally ok today. Maybe one goal on the softer side, but happy that they stay with him now. First period was even mostly due to the 5 minute penalty. Looking forward to Latvia vs Denmark today, to see if Denmark has anything at all to bring to the table. They have Olaf Eller as their coach, and he's been here before. Will be surprised if the blow-out game against Belarus will repeat itself.
Edit, I didn't even realize that they changed goalies in the third. Amirbekov was actually better.
 
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Stensrud was ok but being ok doesn't really move the needle in a tournament like this, I have a hard time imagining Belarus not scoring at least 4-5 goals on him no matter how well the team in front plays. The first goal today was a classic one for a junior goalie to allow (soft backhand squirts through the armpit) but once again, average junior goaltending doesn't move the needle at this level.
 
I don't understand how it's possible that Kazakhstan is losing when they have 2 KHL players...

Joking aside, looks like Latvia will have a chance to clinch on Wednesday.
I like how you're having discussions with imaginary people with opinions that haven't been voiced here.

I clearly get that these jabs are directed at me, but it seems a little desperate on your part.

As it was acknowledged here before by the very person who is now retrospectively acting smart, no one knows anything about how good most of the Kazakh players are and that would be the case both if they were decent or quite shite.

Since there was nothing to go by, it is a little cocky to just assume they are better than Norway and without a fighting chance.

Somehow no one was saying these things before the match, apart from one Norwegian fan who was clearly wrong before.
 
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