Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[TheBeard]

Trade Timo now.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

If the Sharks had moved Hertl and Meier last year...I hope that's not something that's looked back on as a defining mistake.

I absolutely love Hertl. My favorite shark outside of Jumbo and Pavs, but I wish we would’ve traded him last year. He could’ve had a chance to win, we’d have extra cap to take bad contracts for picks, and it would’ve been a good return.

Unless we get lucky and get Bedard, I don’t see him still being good when we get good again and then his contact will be a hinderance.

Having him on the team also hurts the tank for the next 3-4 years when we need to tank. And by the time the tank is hopefully over, he’ll be on the decline.

 

[Shark Finn]

If the delusion of handing out max term contracts while hoping the team sneaks into the playoffs continues, I don't know what to say. I'd rather keep Meier and trade Hertl but that's too late now. Maybe the only positive on missing out on Bedard is that the player they pick has no impact on the team for a couple of years and the Sharks keep picking high for a while.

 

[Lebanezer]

Draisaitl is coat-tailing this bitch.

 

[LadyStanley]

LeBrun confirms teams are talking with Sharks about EK65.

 

[LadyStanley]

Video version

 

[Friday]

Isle boarderline playoff team too. Which makes a nice trade partner, their 1st would be 14-20th ish.

 

[hohosaregood]

NYI are playing Dallas and we play Dallas next week. I don't think there's anything there unless it's like Wyatt Johnston++ for Timo

 

[Friday]

NYI are playing Dallas and we play Dallas next week. I don't think there's anything there unless it's like Wyatt Johnston++ for Timo

There were Timo "rumors" to long island to start the year. Kurz probably fishing for clicks but its known theyre interested whatever all that means.

 

[Shark Finn]

I'm just so glad to hear that at least talks are going on. This would be a good year to be adding draft picks, especially with the fact that the Sharks probably won't be picking in the top-5.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I know that under LL the Isles had targeted Burns from SJ, with Dobson and Wahlstrom being the pieces they were willing to move. My guess is that that ship has sailed.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Isles could make sense for a Meier trade. They're tight to the cap next year but we could take a forward with term (for a year or two) like Bailey, Beauvillier, etc. who we could later flip next year. They have a nice group of young players/prospects to offer in a trade, as well as obviously a first.

Don't see Dallas trading any of their young guys for Meier, they know they are a young team and there's no need to throw assets away yet. Same goes with the Devils...it depends how serious they are of going all in while they're hot this year.

Maybe it ends up like a Debrincat trade where we have Meier right until the draft, and trade him to directly another pick in the first round.

 

[Gecklund]

I know that under LL the Isles had targeted Burns from SJ, with Dobson and Wahlstrom being the pieces they were willing to move. My guess is that that ship has sailed.

Oh man I’d love to get Dobson but no way that happens. I think I’d target Beauvillier+Raty+1st but that trade also depends on how Isles view Beauvillier and if they resign Timo.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I know that under LL the Isles had targeted Burns from SJ, with Dobson and Wahlstrom being the pieces they were willing to move. My guess is that that ship has sailed.

I think it would be fair to assume that ship has sailed, on account of us not having Burns anymore.

Meier to NYI is interesting. I’d do something like 2023 1st, Raty, and cap dump (Bailey?).

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I think it would be fair to assume that ship has sailed, on account of us not having Burns anymore.

Meier to NYI is interesting. I’d do something like 2023 1st, Raty, and cap dump (Bailey?).

The Sharks would need to either add a contract or retain so they don't have to take a dump but a Raty and a 1st return for Meier would be a good deal, imo.

 

[mogambomoroo]

I think if they are trading Meier to Islanders or any team for that matter, they need to start that deal with a NHL level defencemen coming back (two-way guy that also gets points, not a norris caliber obviously) + cap dump forward and 1st round pick. Sharks biggest problem is defence and they need to do everything in their power to start working on making a respectable d-core over these next few years. 2023 draft is not known for a deep defencemen year, so they'll very likely use their draft picks on forwards in the 1st round.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

I think if they are trading Meier to Islanders or any team for that matter, they need to start that deal with a NHL level defencemen coming back (two-way guy that also gets points, not a norris caliber obviously) + cap dump forward and 1st round pick. Sharks biggest problem is defence and they need to do everything in their power to start working on making a respectable d-core over these next few years. 2023 draft is not known for a deep defencemen year, so they'll very likely use their draft picks on forwards in the 1st round.

I agree that ideally we get a solid D prospect/young player in a Meier trade, but I don't think it matters that much. We're gonna suck for the next few years, so there is time to acquire/draft a defenseman at SOME point. The main point of trading Meier is to acquire the best young asset we can (either through prospect or a high 1st round pick) and put the team in a better position to draft in the top-5.

 

[landshark]

I think if they are trading Meier to Islanders or any team for that matter, they need to start that deal with a NHL level defencemen coming back (two-way guy that also gets points, not a norris caliber obviously) + cap dump forward and 1st round pick. Sharks biggest problem is defence and they need to do everything in their power to start working on making a respectable d-core over these next few years. 2023 draft is not known for a deep defencemen year, so they'll very likely use their draft picks on forwards in the 1st round.

You're sure it's not the goalie(s)?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You're sure it's not the goalie(s)?

View attachment 633556

I don't think it's one or the other. The team is bad all around. They don't maintain puck possession offensively anywhere near enough. They have too many bad defensive breakdowns. They aren't getting bailed out by the goalies and the goalies are giving up some softies too. There's only so much that can be done when the talent just isn't there and they still need to move talent before really getting on the path of rebuilding.

 

[hohosaregood]

The defense is bad enough that there's like anti-chemistry bringing it down even further

 

[landshark]

I don't think it's one or the other. The team is bad all around. They don't maintain puck possession offensively anywhere near enough. They have too many bad defensive breakdowns. They aren't getting bailed out by the goalies and the goalies are giving up some softies too. There's only so much that can be done when the talent just isn't there and they still need to move talent before really getting on the path of rebuilding.

I hear you, but Boner is the shotblocking-est fwd ever. I think Mario is up there also.

As a team the Sharks block a bunch of shots... less than 2 blocks per game off the league leading k-niggits. I guess that's part of the team thing tho. But, it'd be a lot worse if the Sharks weren't so shot blocky.

Makes me wonder about the Joner effect, no faith in goalie, more selling out to block shots by the position players overall which causes more chaos and potentially more folks outta position because they think if they don't go block that shot no one else is going to (goalies).

Defense prob v. goaltending prob v. team prob... we got 99 probs but a point machine of a defenseman ain't one.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I have very strong opinion on building a Stanley Cup quality defense that I’ve been parroting for years, and it’s this:

You must draft a star #1 two-way defenseman in the first round. It is nice to have quality bottom pairing defensemen in the system from later round picks so that you don’t have to overpay for them in free agency. Everything else can be obtained some other way.

Take Tampa. They drafted Hedman 2nd overall, but the rest of their Stanley Cup winning defense was obtained through trade: Cernak, Sergachev, and McDonagh.

Pittsburgh, same story with Letang. The Blues, same story with Pietrangelo. Carlson, Makar, Keith, Doughty. Guys like McAvoy, Fox, Heiskanen, Slavin fit the bill. Potentially Dahlin or Power, Seider, Jiricek down the road. Quality top-4 defensemen are always available in the off-season: Marino, Siegenthaler, Toews, etc.

If the Sharks can draft that #1D (maybe Jiricek 2.0 next year?) then the rest of the defense can be handled with savvy trading and good mid-late round drafting.

On the flip side, you almost universally must have two top-5 pick centers or one center and one absolute superstar winger (Ovechkin, Kucherov, Rantanen, Kane). There are a few exceptions to this rule (if you have a generational goaltender like Vasilevsky, for example) but it’s a pretty good guideline.

So for the Sharks, in addition to this season they need two more top-5 picks to round this out. For example, let’s say they get Will Smith in 2023, Adam Jiricek in 2024, and James Hagens in 2025. The rest of the roster can be filled in with trade acquisitions, later picks, prospects already in the system, veterans, and free agents.

XXX-Hagens-XXX (Meier trade?)
Eklund-Smith-Hertl
Couture-Bystedt-Bordeleau
XXX-XXX-XXX

XXX-Jiricek
XXX-Karlsson
XXX-Laroque

XXX
XXX

Obviously much easier said than done; LA had the potential for this structure, but Byfield and Turcotte are very underwhelming for where they were picked and I’m not a huge believer in Clarke, so they seem to be coming out of their rebuild with two of the three at best. But this is the most reliable way to both sustained success and Cup contention. It just takes a lot of lottery luck, which can’t be counted on. But there’s no other path to contention that involves less luck.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I have very strong opinion on building a Stanley Cup quality defense that I’ve been parroting for years, and it’s this:

You must draft a star #1 two-way defenseman in the first round. It is nice to have quality bottom pairing defensemen in the system from later round picks so that you don’t have to overpay for them in free agency. Everything else can be obtained some other way.

Take Tampa. They drafted Hedman 2nd overall, but the rest of their Stanley Cup winning defense was obtained through trade: Cernak, Sergachev, and McDonagh.

Pittsburgh, same story with Letang. The Blues, same story with Pietrangelo. Carlson, Makar, Keith, Doughty. Guys like McAvoy, Fox, Heiskanen, Slavin fit the bill. Potentially Dahlin or Power, Seider, Jiricek down the road. Quality top-4 defensemen are always available in the off-season: Marino, Siegenthaler, Toews, etc.

If the Sharks can draft that #1D (maybe Jiricek 2.0 next year?) then the rest of the defense can be handled with savvy trading and good mid-late round drafting.

On the flip side, you almost universally must have two top-5 pick centers or one center and one absolute superstar winger (Ovechkin, Kucherov, Rantanen, Kane). There are a few exceptions to this rule (if you have a generational goaltender like Vasilevsky, for example) but it’s a pretty good guideline.

So for the Sharks, in addition to this season they need two more top-5 picks to round this out. For example, let’s say they get Will Smith in 2023, Adam Jiricek in 2024, and James Hagens in 2025. The rest of the roster can be filled in with trade acquisitions, later picks, prospects already in the system, veterans, and free agents.

XXX-Hagens-XXX (Meier trade?)
Eklund-Smith-Hertl
Couture-Bystedt-Bordeleau
XXX-XXX-XXX

XXX-Jiricek
XXX-Karlsson
XXX-Laroque

XXX
XXX

Obviously much easier said than done; LA had the potential for this structure, but Byfield and Turcotte are very underwhelming for where they were picked and I’m not a huge believer in Clarke, so they seem to be coming out of their rebuild with two of the three at best. But this is the most reliable way to both sustained success and Cup contention. It just takes a lot of lottery luck, which can’t be counted on. But there’s no other path to contention that involves less luck.

This playbook would've been nice in the 2003 draft when they had the chance to draft Suter instead of Michalek.

 

[hohosaregood]

This playbook would've been nice in the 2003 draft when they had the chance to draft Suter instead of Michalek.

Crazy how this franchise basically never drafted a single high potential defenseman

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Crazy how this franchise basically never drafted a single high potential defenseman

I suppose it depends on your view of high potential d-men. I thought Carle and Merkley had high potential but high bust potential too though Carle carved out a solid top four career. It just felt very lined up then to have the Sharks draft Suter. He was clearly a very good prospect at the time as was Coburn and Phaneuf to different degrees. Given the family ties, I thought DW would've pulled that trigger but they missed that opportunity. Makes for a good thought experiment to see what the Sharks do differently if they made that pick.