Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[Anomie2029]

Looks like Quinn is scratching Labanc for tomorrow's game.

I wish I could say I'm surprised, but Quinn has made it clear the last month or so that your level of play means f*** all. Labanc has been one of the few positives this season, but he is getting punished for some reason. Meanwhile, we have Couture and Hertl regularly half-assing on the ice, Bonino being too slow and a non-factor on the ice, etc.

Would it surprise anyone if Labanc asks to be traded and then he gets healthy scratched continuously like has happened with Merkley with the Cuda?

 

[Gecklund]

Looks like Quinn is scratching Labanc for tomorrow's game.

I wish I could say I'm surprised, but Quinn has made it clear the last month or so that your level of play means f*** all. Labanc has been one of the few positives this season, but he is getting punished for some reason. Meanwhile, we have Couture and Hertl regularly half-assing on the ice, Bonino being too slow and a non-factor on the ice, etc.

Would it surprise anyone if Labanc asks to be traded and then he gets healthy scratched continuously like has happened with Merkley with the Cuda?

In what world has Labanc been a positive? He’s been trash defensively and feeding off Timo/Hertl offensively. He is also by far the laziest player on the team. He consistently just throws his stick in recklessly and gets called for a stupid and needless stick infraction. If Labanc asks for a trade he can sit his ass at home.

 

[Anomie2029]

In what world has Labanc been a positive? He’s been trash defensively and feeding off Timo/Hertl offensively. He is also by far the laziest player on the team. He consistently just throws his stick in recklessly and gets called for a stupid and needless stick infraction. If Labanc asks for a trade he can sit his ass at home.

Labanc has been very good, and is actually the one that is most frequently providing coverage for pinching D on whatever line he gets put on.

The only area he is struggling is PP production, but is that surprising when he is on PP2 with offensive specialists like Bonino, Nieto, etc.

Speaking of laziest players on the team, may have a quick watch of McDavid's second goal and see what Couture is doing. Not the first time he has been caught floating and puck watching whilst a player scoots in backdoor to score.

 

[Gecklund]

View attachment 635803

Labanc has been very good, and is actually the one that is most frequently providing coverage for pinching D on whatever line he gets put on.

The only area he is struggling is PP production, but is that surprising when he is on PP2 with offensive specialists like Bonino, Nieto, etc.

Speaking of laziest players on the team, may have a quick watch of McDavid's second goal and see what Couture is doing. Not the first time he has been caught floating and puck watching whilst a player scoots in backdoor to score.

I’m not saying anyone else has been good. Labanc has just been spoonfed opportunities next to Timo and Hertl. This is like Benning having good numbers despite being absolutely awful. Labanc has killed multiple plays with his 11 stick infraction penalties from him just not skating. There’s a reason that Hertl line looked just as good offensively without Labanc and with a freaking waiver claim.

 

[Harbessix]

I’m not going to pretend I know more than the average fan and I’m not one to delve too much into the analytics. Strictly from my point of view in watching the games, I haven’t been all that impressed with Labanc since his breakout 56 point season. And it’s easy to say Quinn is “picking on him” but he was also getting healthy scratched under Boughner. Doesn’t seem like a coincidence that two guys that have played and coached as long as they have both want to see him compete more. Not saying Couture and Hertl haven’t had bad stretches but it’s typically not from a lack of effort. Just my two cents.

 

[Anomie2029]

I’m not saying anyone else has been good. Labanc has just been spoonfed opportunities next to Timo and Hertl. This is like Benning having good numbers despite being absolutely awful. Labanc has killed multiple plays with his 11 stick infraction penalties from him just not skating. There’s a reason that Hertl line looked just as good offensively without Labanc and with a freaking waiver claim.

Interestingly enough, despite I would say Meier driving that line - Labanc has better numbers when it comes to corsi, fenwick, expected goals for %, expected goals against %, suggesting that Labanc is still performing fine when away from them.

A nice little search on natural stat trick shows us:
Labanc w/Hertl and Meier - xGF% is 59.63 (305 minutes)
Hertl and Meier w/o Labanc - xGF% is 54.54 (204 minutes)
Labanc w/o Meier or Hertl - xGF% is 60.06 (168 minutes)

As for the penalties, Labanc has sat for 11 penalties, but as far as I'm aware they're not all stick infractions as these include when he sits for bench minors. Also add to the fact that Hertl has taken 10 penalties, it's not nearly as significant as you think it is.

 

[Gecklund]

Interestingly enough, despite I would say Meier driving that line - Labanc has better numbers when it comes to corsi, fenwick, expected goals for %, expected goals against %, suggesting that Labanc is still performing fine when away from them.

A nice little search on natural stat trick shows us:
Labanc w/Hertl and Meier - xGF% is 59.63 (305 minutes)
Hertl and Meier w/o Labanc - xGF% is 54.54 (204 minutes)
Labanc w/o Meier or Hertl - xGF% is 60.06 (168 minutes)

As for the penalties, Labanc has sat for 11 penalties, but as far as I'm aware they're not all stick infractions as these include when he sits for bench minors. Also add to the fact that Hertl has taken 10 penalties, it's not nearly as significant as you think it is.

I don’t believe bench minors get added to the total.

Also I’m actually very surprised by those numbers. I will say though that Labanc has been stapled to that line since early in the season. I’d have to think a majority of those minutes away from those two came from weird shift changes. Feels like the Sharks have had that happen more often this season.

 

[hohosaregood]

Labanc shouldn't be scratched but it also doesn't really matter.

 

[Cas]

Labanc's penalties this season:

Hooking - 2
Tripping - 5
Interference - 3
Delay of Game - 1

 

[Anomie2029]

I don’t believe bench minors get added to the total.

Also I’m actually very surprised by those numbers. I will say though that Labanc has been stapled to that line since early in the season. I’d have to think a majority of those minutes away from those two came from weird shift changes. Feels like the Sharks have had that happen more often this season.

I've managed to find a site that actually lists all the penalties and you're correct - it doesn't include bench minors.

However, it hasn't been 11 stick infringements.
7 have been tripping or hooking
3 have been interference
1 has been delay of game

I know, at least recently, there have been situations he has taken a tripping penalty defending a rush whilst covering for the D.

In regards, to your "weird shift changes" comment... Labanc has played 168 minutes away from Hertl and Meier, that's too significant to be "weird shift changes".

 

[Gecklund]

I've managed to find a site that actually lists all the penalties and you're correct - it doesn't include bench minors.

However, it hasn't been 11 stick infringements.
7 have been tripping or hooking
3 have been interference
1 has been delay of game

I know, at least recently, there have been situations he has taken a tripping penalty defending a rush whilst covering for the D.

I mean in all honesty all 3 of those types of penalties fit my point. He’s lazy. That’s lazy with stick, lazy with skating (obviously very dependent on situation so I can give him a pass on these) and lazy with clearance.

I understand the idea that he’s one of the few okay offensive option. I just don’t know if I’d say he’s been very good. I don’t necessarily agree with the benching but I also don’t disagree with it.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Labanc shouldn't be scratched but it also doesn't really matter.

Truly, this is the only discussion that needs to be had here. But I guess it is a slow hockey day.

Personally, I think there’s no reason to scratch Labanc because he’s got enough offensive talent that it’s worth playing him just to see if someone will bite.

 

[hohosaregood]

Truly, this is the only discussion that needs to be had here. But I guess it is a slow hockey day.

Personally, I think there’s no reason to scratch Labanc because he’s got enough offensive talent that it’s worth playing him just to see if someone will bite.

I feel like that $1m -> $5m contract sequence really f***ed things up for Labanc. He bet on himself, lost, and was rewarded for being mediocre. In some ways, I feel like he's becoming the Costco brand Balcers (assuming Balcers is the Save Mart brand Balcers). He's been solid all around this year but I can't say he's been particularly noteworthy as a scorer, playdriver, puck battler, etc.

I just don't really know what kind of interest there is for him around the league.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I feel like that $1m -> $5m contract sequence really f***ed things up for Labanc. He bet on himself, lost, and was rewarded for being mediocre. In some ways, I feel like he's becoming the Costco brand Balcers (assuming Balcers is the Save Mart brand Balcers). He's been solid all around this year but I can't say he's been particularly noteworthy as a scorer, playdriver, puck battler, etc.

I just don't really know what kind of interest there is for him around the league.

Yeah I think that that $1M contract screwed us, because DW was basically obliged to overpay him on his next contract.

I mean, I don’t expect anyone to trade real assets for Labanc, but a late 2nd from a contender needing a depth scoring option/injury insurance for a long playoff run seems reasonable to me.

 

[Gecklund]

Yeah I think that that $1M contract screwed us, because DW was basically obliged to overpay him on his next contract.

I mean, I don’t expect anyone to trade real assets for Labanc, but a late 2nd from a contender needing a depth scoring option/injury insurance for a long playoff run seems reasonable to me.

I think if he was a a rental for sure but that extra year isn’t great.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I think if he was a a rental for sure but that extra year isn’t great.

Yeah, that’s reasonable. I don’t really expect Labanc to be traded at this deadline, but frankly I just don’t see any reason not to play Labanc just in case.

 

[Gecklund]

Yeah, that’s reasonable. I don’t really expect Labanc to be traded at this deadline, but frankly I just don’t see any reason not to play Labanc just in case.

If they were putting Gregor with Hertl/Timo, I could see an argument that they are showcasing him but to have Eyssimont there? It’s weird.

 

[Juxtaposer]

If they were putting Gregor with Hertl/Timo, I could see an argument that they are showcasing him but to have Eyssimont there? It’s weird.

Yeah, that one is a total head-scratcher.

 

[Anomie2029]

The infatuation with Eyssimont is really confusing. It's simply a new toy that they are overplaying before they inevitably get bored of him.

They're playing him on the top line and PP, and he has scored 1 NHL goal & 5 points in 23 games. He wasn't even a particularly high scorer in the AHL.

 

[OrrNumber4]

The infatuation with Eyssimont is really confusing. It's simply a new toy that they are overplaying before they inevitably get bored of him.

They're playing him on the top line and PP, and he has scored 1 NHL goal & 5 points in 23 games. He wasn't even a particularly high scorer in the AHL.

This is why you just have to have faith in management. It's practically impossible to determine the reasons for why any one decision. Is it incompetence? Are they purposefully trying to tank? Do they have a scouting report on Eyssimont and think he is capable of more (my bet)? Are they just too worried about culture-building? Maybe they are trying to see where he can fit in a post-trade-deadline, decimated Sharks roster?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The infatuation with Eyssimont is really confusing. It's simply a new toy that they are overplaying before they inevitably get bored of him.

They're playing him on the top line and PP, and he has scored 1 NHL goal & 5 points in 23 games. He wasn't even a particularly high scorer in the AHL.

Coaches tend to do that when everyone sucks.

 

[tiburon12]

Grier provides words, much like Quinn. But when you break it down, it’s either bullshit or means absolutely nothing.

Grier talks about he doesn’t like tanking and he is a competitive guy - but all his moves suggest he is either tanking (but not great at it) or completely incompetent.

Quinn talks about the importance of effort and uses that as justifying benching Labanc recently, but we watch Couture and Hertl half ass plays on the regular without skipping a shift. I mean, he only said taking Barabanov off the PP in the 3rd against oilers was “his decision” - well, no shit.

All of Grier's moves suggest he wants guys who compete hard 60m/82gp. He shipped out 'lazy players' like Balcers and Dahlen and brought in try-hards like Kunin, Sturm, and Eyssimont. Competitive people bust ass even if the chance of winning is <1% and that's what he means by being a competitive guy.

I think he's delivered on his message, personally.

Looks like Quinn is scratching Labanc for tomorrow's game.

I wish I could say I'm surprised, but Quinn has made it clear the last month or so that your level of play means f*** all. Labanc has been one of the few positives this season, but he is getting punished for some reason. Meanwhile, we have Couture and Hertl regularly half-assing on the ice, Bonino being too slow and a non-factor on the ice, etc.

Would it surprise anyone if Labanc asks to be traded and then he gets healthy scratched continuously like has happened with Merkley with the Cuda?

To the above, Labanc very visibly lacks the hustle on the back check and often coasts when he should be moving his feet. While I dont think it's intentionally lazy, i think he doesnt have the bust-ass mindset at all times. That puts him a step behind and he already isnt the fastest guy.

I don't know if scratching him is the right move, but I see it every game and I understand where Quinn is coming from, even if his metrics are solid. It's kinda like, "imagine if he hit that next gear"...

Hertl definitely looks like he has New Dad Legs this year (even though his kid is a few years old), but Couture brings it each game, he just isnt that dynamic anymore.

The infatuation with Eyssimont is really confusing. It's simply a new toy that they are overplaying before they inevitably get bored of him.

They're playing him on the top line and PP, and he has scored 1 NHL goal & 5 points in 23 games. He wasn't even a particularly high scorer in the AHL.

To the top comment of this post, Eyssimont is the archetype Grier player that busts ass and creates chances. As long as his motor still rips, I don't see Grier or Quinn getting bored of his effort. He's creating chances that result in O-zone draws, which puts Karl on the ice and ultimately gives us a chance to score.

 

[Mattb124]

Interestingly enough, despite I would say Meier driving that line - Labanc has better numbers when it comes to corsi, fenwick, expected goals for %, expected goals against %, suggesting that Labanc is still performing fine when away from them.

Or it could be that those metrics really aren't representative of actual contribution, as I see the same thing in Meier driving that line.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Labanc getting scratched is the right move, not because he's bad, but because scratching him makes the Sharks worse.

 

[WTFetus]

Hertl definitely looks like he has New Dad Legs this year (even though his kid is a few years old), but Couture brings it each game, he just isnt that dynamic anymore.

Bit of a creeper post, but looking at the Sharks' Christmas photos, I think they might be expecting #2.