Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[Pavelski2112]

Wilson tried that trend of signing short term contracts at all times, but it just means you are behind the times of the league.

It worked for a long time, he just didn't know when to say no to those guys later on.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

My entire arguement is that players with high end potential should not extend there elc, with meier doing it just the 1 extra year made it so the sharks were signing top line meier who showed that he can put the puck in the net after a 36 goal season. Letting his normal contract end after the 3rd year like they all should anyways, then the sharks would have been signing him to a bridge deal at way less then the 6 mil he signed for. Extra 2 to 4 mil the past 4 years would have been very handy considering how close we were to the cap.

If you don’t slide the ones you can, you’re putting them to UFA status earlier. Depends on who it is and what the team’s status is at the time but Eklund won’t be worrisome if he slides and ends his ELC next year or three years from now. Meier was during a winning attempt rather than rebuilding.

If you start Meier at 18, he may not have the same contract path due to what he would’ve earned. A lot of kids during DW’s era would take two year bridges that still put them in a similar area but provide more player rights to sort of string the team along with arbitration.

 

[fasterthanlight]

It worked for a long time, he just didn't know when to say no to those guys later on.

The one guy he shouldn't have said no to he did

 

[OrrNumber4]

It bears repeating that Wilson's shrewd contracts were a result of miserly ownership. They had a policy against long term deals, and while they were willing to spend to the cap, they had an internal budget. Moreover, the team's ersatz superstar always left money on the table, giving DW negotiating power.

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

It bears repeating that Wilson's shrewd contracts were a result of miserly ownership. They had a policy against long term deals, and while they were willing to spend to the cap, they had an internal budget. Moreover, the team's ersatz superstar always left money on the table, giving DW negotiating power.

Joe Thornton. Man, I appreciate him so much and miss him so much, more so. now that he's not here.

 

[Lebanezer]

Joe Thornton. Man, I appreciate him so much and miss him so much, more so. now that he's not here.

Joe was the one who chose the length of his own contracts. That wasn’t Doug. Cheech got 5 years, Michalek got 6, Marleau and Pavs got 4. Joe always chose 3 years.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

I remember for the Giants, Zito’s experience getting the big contract and then being burdened with those expectations was one reason that Lincecum stated for not seeking out the monster contract during his negotiations.

Unfortunately for Lincecum, he’s probably the perfect case in point of why an athlete should always pursue the bigger contract

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

flip side to the "no one worth anything signs less than 8 years" why would a player like Timo lock in an 8 year deal when he could wait and get paid like he will? Alternatively, you sign a guy like Timo to 6-7m a year for 8 years when he's younger and he turns into a Labanc that youre stuck with. It's rarely this simple

Cause he will get qualified

 

[tiburon12]

Sounds about right. Fans will be furious when all we get for Timo is a late 1st and a current or future bottom six forward but they can blame the insane QO Doug Wilson gave him.

See you say things like this then totally reject the idea of giving Timo his QO and trying to trade him with retention as a pending UFA.

If you think his trade value is so bad now because of the QO, why are you opposed to trading him when that QO is gone? Your claim that his value is higher now is baseless speculation

 

[hohosaregood]

if Timo gets traded, it's almost certainly a sign and trade. if you can trade him with retention on his current deal and a with a new deal in place, he would be a really attractive piece for a contender.

 

[mogambomoroo]

if Timo gets traded, it's almost certainly a sign and trade. if you can trade him with retention on his current deal and a with a new deal in place, he would be a really attractive piece for a contender.

If that was the case I would at least expect 2x #1 round draft picks and couple of NHL ready prospects. (Since it's probably a playoff team and they get him long term) He is still young player.

I could see New Jersey grabbing on this deal since Hischier could play even better with a fellow Swiss or Hughes gets a elite winger. They have such a deep prospect pool, it shouldn't be that expensive for them. The draft picks will likely be late ones (but secretly hoping they fall in 1st round or miss playoffs by an inch)
In case we manage to grab of one of their big time defencemen prospects (Hughes or Nemec) than I'm okay with dropping the 1st round picks out of the trade. But would still want a forward (prospect) added. I don't see NJ trading those defencemen, but that's how much value I see in Meier.

I think Meier is a kind of player that's very hard to find as an available in free agency or as trade piece (teams usually keep them) fast power forward who shoots a lot and also has a point per game potential. He is going to be big value for a playoff caliber team .

 

[LadyStanley]

From Chris Johnson (Toronto pundit)'s Monday email newsletter

Hey CJ, what are you hearing the asking price on Erik Karlsson? Could the Leafs have the assets to swing a blockbuster for him? - @Milward_MTGO



The cost for Karlsson depends on how much money San Jose is being asked to retain in the trade. It's going to be an extremely difficult deal to put together because of his $11.5-million cap hit through 2026-27. I would think the Leafs could come up with a package capable of landing him, but they may not be able to stomach the cap ramifications of doing so.

 

[Hodge]

See you say things like this then totally reject the idea of giving Timo his QO and trying to trade him with retention as a pending UFA.

If you think his trade value is so bad now because of the QO, why are you opposed to trading him when that QO is gone? Your claim that his value is higher now is baseless speculation

The QO hurts Meier's trade value because it effectively makes him a pending UFA right now since no team in their right mind would qualify him at that number. Why would he have more trade value playing on his QO next year when he will definitely be a pending UFA?

 

[HellOnIce]

Meier is effectively a UFA...kind of. Devils fan here, i don't think it's been a huge secret we want him for his skills, and Swiss connections to Captain Hischier. I think whomever trades for him is going to need to negotiate with him to get that 10M QO maybe the first year of a deal, and then adjusted downwards to get to the AAV wanted. Or he is just takes it across a 6-8 year deal.

 

[Gecklund]

Meier is effectively a UFA...kind of. Devils fan here, i don't think it's been a huge secret we want him for his skills, and Swiss connections to Captain Hischier. I think whomever trades for him is going to need to negotiate with him to get that 10M QO maybe the first year of a deal, and then adjusted downwards to get to the AAV wanted. Or he is just takes it across a 6-8 year deal.

But he’s not effectively a UFA. He’s effectively an RFA because well he is an RFA.

 

[Hodge]

RFA vs. UFA is not binary. There are huge differences within RFA status between being a 10.2(c) player, arbitration-ineligible RFA, arb eligible RFA, arb eligible RFA 1 year from UFA status due a radioactive qualifying offer, etc.

 

[LadyStanley]

As long as he's signed (by Sharks, or acquiring team) before the QO has to be issued, any new (RFA) deal can be under $10m aav.

 

[hohosaregood]

If that was the case I would at least expect 2x #1 round draft picks and couple of NHL ready prospects. (Since it's probably a playoff team and they get him long term) He is still young player.

I could see New Jersey grabbing on this deal since Hischier could play even better with a fellow Swiss or Hughes gets a elite winger. They have such a deep prospect pool, it shouldn't be that expensive for them. The draft picks will likely be late ones (but secretly hoping they fall in 1st round or miss playoffs by an inch)
In case we manage to grab of one of their big time defencemen prospects (Hughes or Nemec) than I'm okay with dropping the 1st round picks out of the trade. But would still want a forward (prospect) added. I don't see NJ trading those defencemen, but that's how much value I see in Meier.

I think Meier is a kind of player that's very hard to find as an available in free agency or as trade piece (teams usually keep them) fast power forward who shoots a lot and also has a point per game potential. He is going to be big value for a playoff caliber team .

Personally, I'd want something like Holtz/Hughes/Nemec + Bahl + 2023 1st +2024 1st if it's for a retained and signed Meier. Basically a high first, 2 low firsts, and a solid prospect. I think that would line up with similar past deals but also that'd be a best case scenario that I can't really expect.

 

[mogambomoroo]

Personally, I'd want something like Holtz/Hughes/Nemec + Bahl + 2023 1st +2024 1st if it's for a retained and signed Meier. Basically a high first, 2 low firsts, and a solid prospect. I think that would line up with similar past deals but also that'd be a best case scenario that I can't really expect.

I would love that return and if we manage to get Bedard/Fantilli, our rebuild would get to a stage of not becoming a total rebuild. You would have #1 center in Bedard/Fantilli, #1-2 future D in Hughes or Nemec, #1-2 line wing in Eklund or Holtz, #2-3 C/W in Bordeleau and that's + Hertl, Couture, probably Karlsson, Sturm and Barabanov bringing veteran presence.

 

[DG93]

Personally, I'd want something like Holtz/Hughes/Nemec + Bahl + 2023 1st +2024 1st if it's for a retained and signed Meier. Basically a high first, 2 low firsts, and a solid prospect. I think that would line up with similar past deals but also that'd be a best case scenario that I can't really expect.

If we're gonna dream big, I would really want Nemec/Hughes as the top prospect coming back. The Sharks need help everywhere obviously, but their stockpile on defense is especially depressing. Maybe 1-2 guys who could crack the 2nd pair (I'd put my money on Laroque if anyone)? Up front, at least you have Eklund, whoever they draft first this upcoming draft, and maybe 1-2 guys will surprise like Bordeleau or Gushchin. On defense, it's a complete disaster, so I personally would strongly prefer Hughes or Nemec.

 

[HellOnIce]

If we're gonna dream big, I would really want Nemec/Hughes as the top prospect coming back. The Sharks need help everywhere obviously, but their stockpile on defense is especially depressing. Maybe 1-2 guys who could crack the 2nd pair (I'd put my money on Laroque if anyone)? Up front, at least you have Eklund, whoever they draft first this upcoming draft, and maybe 1-2 guys will surprise like Bordeleau or Gushchin. On defense, it's a complete disaster, so I personally would strongly prefer Hughes or Nemec.

The thing is, the Sharks aren't in a position to demand anything. Meier has a say in where he wants to go and extend. Devils aren't going to trade Hughes or Nemec, not a chance. It would likely be something centered around a 1st and Alex Holtz.

 

[DG93]

The thing is, the Sharks aren't in a position to demand anything. Meier has a say in where he wants to go and extend. Devils aren't going to trade Hughes or Nemec, not a chance. It would likely be something centered around a 1st and Alex Holtz.

I did say "if we're going to dream" haha

 

[HellOnIce]

I did say "if we're going to dream" haha

ha that's fair. 1st, Holtz and something else to help your rebuild, Reilly Walsh, Ethan Edwards,maybe even a Seamus Casey could be included - I think is a good deal for SJ.

 

[Hodge]

ha that's fair. 1st, Holtz and something else to help your rebuild, Reilly Walsh, Ethan Edwards,maybe even a Seamus Casey could be included - I think is a good deal for SJ.

It’s too good honestly. Meier should be valued as a rental. 1st + Nolan Foote + mid round pick is more than enough given the historical return in these kinds of trades.

 

[DG93]

ha that's fair. 1st, Holtz and something else to help your rebuild, Reilly Walsh, Ethan Edwards,maybe even a Seamus Casey could be included - I think is a good deal for SJ.

Yep, I'd take that easily