Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[Pinkfloyd]

I agree 100% although it would have been a much easier argument for if we didn’t re-sign Hertl.

I only think it’s a matter of whether Timo wants to stay. If he doesn’t, your hand is pretty much forced.

 

[DG93]

I agree. It’s a massive difference though.


Oh good. Hodge wants to chime in.

I agree with him though. Signing Meier to an 8-year deal is a terrible idea when this team is nowhere near contention. Meier has always been a player who alternates between being motivated and being lazy, and I have a bad feeling he'll regress to lazy once he gets paid on a team that's 3+ years away from contention. The Sharks are already full of bloated contracts even if not all of them are as bad as Vlasic's. I wouldn't want to add another one. With how well Meier is playing now, I'd sell high if teams will give us a good return at the deadline.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

Bonino also is a key part of our PK which is first (or second have checked in a little while but definitely high). Bonino is also a C. Bonino also has experience. Can you name any available players that have all 3 of these and an expiring contract?

Bonino is absolutely cooked. I appreciate his effort and the career he has put together, but he simply is not a net benefit to a team. As others have said, the PK success is likely a systems thing rather than an indicator of Bonino being a fantastic PKer at this stage of his career.

As far as being a C and having experience, I’d expect those traits would easily be overlooked after any playoff bound teams’ pro scouting department watches like 6 minutes of Bonino’s play. It ain’t great.

 

[Bizz]

PK isn't worth a damn when the other aspects of your game are failing and you're still losing games.

 

[Jargon]

I feel like we have a real chance at Bedard, particularly if Grier pulls the trigger on some bigger trades ASAP. Which honestly, at this point: why not? Why wait much longer? The team is doing terribly, rather than accidentally have them stumble into a meaningless winning streak that loses them a top 3 draft pick, commit to trying to get a potential generational player now.

 

[Bizz]

I'm just hoping he doesn't do anything drastic like trade Meier and/or EK65. Especially EK65 because Defensemen with his skill set and production are extremely hard to come across, and we sure as hell don't have anything close to that in the pipeline.

If we ended up getting Bedard and we didn't have a Defense worth a damn, it'd just be like when we got Joe Thornton. First 4 years gone to waste because Tom f***ing Preissing and Christian f***ing Ehrhoff were our #1 Defensemen.

I mean, Look at Edmonton. The #1 reason why they haven't won shit is because they never had an EK65 to play with McJesus.

 

[Shark Finn]

It’s absurd that anyone who calls themselves a Sharks fan could advocate for signing Timo to an eight year contract. How many times do you want to watch this team make the exact same mistake over and over again?

Good to hear a real Sharks fan speaking, then.

 

[mogambomoroo]

I agree with Hodge about the 8-year extension being a bad idea. It locks the team to certain players too heavily and is harder to trade away afterwards. It would be best to build in smaller window and probably smaller term (3-4 years contracts)

 

[Barrie22]

I agree with Hodge about the 8-year extension being a bad idea. It locks the team to certain players too heavily and is harder to trade away afterwards. It would be best to build in smaller window and probably smaller term (3-4 years contracts)

No players worth anything will sign for 3 to 4 years in todays league.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

I think a EK65 trade is gonna be one of those situations where a trade materializes pretty rapidly. Competing teams will want to fortify themselves and outbid each other for guys like Meier and EK65.

 

[Alaskanice]

I'm just hoping he doesn't do anything drastic like trade Meier and/or EK65. Especially EK65 because Defensemen with his skill set and production are extremely hard to come across, and we sure as hell don't have anything close to that in the pipeline.

If we ended up getting Bedard and we didn't have a Defense worth a damn, it'd just be like when we got Joe Thornton. First 4 years gone to waste because Tom f***ing Preissing and Christian f***ing Ehrhoff were our #1 Defensemen.

I mean, Look at Edmonton. The #1 reason why they haven't won shit is because they never had an EK65 to play with McJesus.

I can’t agree with this more than I do. Trading EK65 is suicide.

 

[Gecklund]

I'm just hoping he doesn't do anything drastic like trade Meier and/or EK65. Especially EK65 because Defensemen with his skill set and production are extremely hard to come across, and we sure as hell don't have anything close to that in the pipeline.

If we ended up getting Bedard and we didn't have a Defense worth a damn, it'd just be like when we got Joe Thornton. First 4 years gone to waste because Tom f***ing Preissing and Christian f***ing Ehrhoff were our #1 Defensemen.

I mean, Look at Edmonton. The #1 reason why they haven't won shit is because they never had an EK65 to play with McJesus.

Our defense is garbage with or without EK with not much in the pipeline. It’s really only Laroque who looks to be a two way defenseman that could be anything more than 3rd pairing. If someone offers us enough to trade EK, you do it and hope for Kiviharju next season and a few other prospects surprise.

 

[SjMilhouse]

No players worth anything will sign for 3 to 4 years in todays league.

I wish more people could get this through their head

 

[Hodge]

No players worth anything will sign for 3 to 4 years in todays league.

That’s why you sign players to 8 year deals coming off their ELC so they’re 30 or 31 when it expires. Signing Timo to an 8 year deal that kicks in when he’s 27 is insanity when the team is this far away from competing.

 

[timorous me]

I'm just hoping he doesn't do anything drastic like trade Meier and/or EK65. Especially EK65 because Defensemen with his skill set and production are extremely hard to come across, and we sure as hell don't have anything close to that in the pipeline.

If we ended up getting Bedard and we didn't have a Defense worth a damn, it'd just be like when we got Joe Thornton. First 4 years gone to waste because Tom f***ing Preissing and Christian f***ing Ehrhoff were our #1 Defensemen.

I mean, Look at Edmonton. The #1 reason why they haven't won shit is because they never had an EK65 to play with McJesus.

Bite your arm off for prime Ehrhoff with the Sharks right now. He'd be our #2 defenseman, no question.

Which speaks to the bigger problem of how bad our defense is now even with Karlsson at the helm of it. Just a complete zero in terms of creating offense from the back outside of him--and speaks to the very difficult position Grier is in with this roster.

 

[SjMilhouse]

That’s why you sign players to 8 year deals coming off their ELC so they’re 30 or 31 when it expires. Signing Timo to an 8 year deal that kicks in when he’s 27 is insanity when the team is this far away from competing.

flip side to the "no one worth anything signs less than 8 years" why would a player like Timo lock in an 8 year deal when he could wait and get paid like he will? Alternatively, you sign a guy like Timo to 6-7m a year for 8 years when he's younger and he turns into a Labanc that youre stuck with. It's rarely this simple

 

[Alaskanice]

flip side to the "no one worth anything signs less than 8 years" why would a player like Timo lock in an 8 year deal when he could wait and get paid like he will? Alternatively, you sign a guy like Timo to 6-7m a year for 8 years when he's younger and he turns into a Labanc that youre stuck with. It's rarely this simple

It is in GM mode on NHL video games. I suspect that’s what drives those expectations. Not all of them, just some.

 

[Hodge]

flip side to the "no one worth anything signs less than 8 years" why would a player like Timo lock in an 8 year deal when he could wait and get paid like he will? Alternatively, you sign a guy like Timo to 6-7m a year for 8 years when he's younger and he turns into a Labanc that youre stuck with. It's rarely this simple

Obviously you don’t offer Labanc caliber players 8 year deals (or even 4 year deals) but Timo was already playing at a star level during the final year of his ELC. It made sense to offer him 8x8 at that point and he likely would have accepted it.

Also you have until a player turns 26 to buy them out at 1/3 cost which isn’t ideal but is another advantage to signing potential core players to max term deals ASAP.

 

[Barrie22]

Obviously you don’t offer Labanc caliber players 8 year deals (or even 4 year deals) but Timo was already playing at a star level during the final year of his ELC. It made sense to offer him 8x8 at that point and he likely would have accepted it.

Also you have until a player turns 26 to buy them out at 1/3 cost which isn’t ideal but is another advantage to signing potential core players to max term deals ASAP.

But timo is actually a very rare case and for the most part his 1st big contract will look more like mackinnons. Good for the team yes, but for a player it would be leaving lots of money on the table.

But that also brings me back to a point i had a few months ago about eklund, that extending the elc a year is to high of a risk for players that has high potential like meier and eklund. Meiers 2nd contract would of been way less in his 2nd contract then the 6 mil he got, but most likely the same 3 or 4 years in length if they could of kept the elc at the 3 year length.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

But timo is actually a very rare case and for the most part his 1st big contract will look more like mackinnons. Good for the team yes, but for a player it would be leaving lots of money on the table.

But that also brings me back to a point i had a few months ago about eklund, that extending the elc a year is to high of a risk for players that has high potential like meier and eklund. Meiers 2nd contract would of been way less in his 2nd contract then the 6 mil he got, but most likely the same 3 or 4 years in length if they could of kept the elc at the 3 year length.

In a vacuum you don’t want to sign players with that sort of potential to a bridge deal because you’re losing out on prime years. The slide doesn’t really change that calculus much.

 

[Barrie22]

In a vacuum you don’t want to sign players with that sort of potential to a bridge deal because you’re losing out on prime years. The slide doesn’t really change that calculus much.

Meier would of had his contract up this past season and would of been at minimum 2 mil per years of savings the past 4 years. Still a RFA instead of basically a UFA because the qualifying offer he is to receive. After his original length elc ended would of been signing after a 6 point and 26 point seasons. Instead of the 36 goal and 66 point season they did sign him after.

And how are you losing prime years? You are getting prime years at a lower salary per year, and then also signing the player earlier to the long term contracts, which means getting even more prime years and less down turn years by the end of that 8 year contract.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Meier would have had his contract up this past season and would have been at minimum 2 mil per years of savings the past 4 years. Still a RFA instead of basically a UFA because the qualifying offer he is to receive. After his original length elc ended would of been signing after a 6 point and 26 point seasons. Instead of the 36 goal and 66 point season they did sign him after.
And how are you losing prime years? You are getting prime years at a lower salary per year, and then also signing the player earlier to the long term contracts, which means getting even more prime years and less down turn years by the end of that 8 year contract.

I need clarification on this. Define the Meier scenario you’re running with compared to what you’re talking about with Eklund.

I simply think you can’t compare Meier’s circumstances when we were winning compared to Eklund when we’re rebuilding.

 

[Barrie22]

I need clarification on this. Define the Meier scenario you’re running with compared to what you’re talking about with Eklund.

I simply think you can’t compare Meier’s circumstances when we were winning compared to Eklund when we’re rebuilding.

My entire arguement is that players with high end potential should not extend there elc, with meier doing it just the 1 extra year made it so the sharks were signing top line meier who showed that he can put the puck in the net after a 36 goal season. Letting his normal contract end after the 3rd year like they all should anyways, then the sharks would of been signing him to a bridge deal at way less then the 6 mil he signed for. Extra 2 to 4 mil the past 4 years would of been very handy considering how close we were to the cap.

 

[mogambomoroo]

No players worth anything will sign for 3 to 4 years in todays league.

I'm aware of this and I see that league/players are going towards that direction, but my point was more about signing 4-5 year deal would be better for the Sharks (or any team) right now. Even if it's very unlikely, it's always possible to start a trend. MG do your magic haha

If Meier is ready to face a rebuild than I'm all for signing him long term. We need veteran players for the new guys, and Meier would be perfect for that.

 

[Barrie22]

I'm aware of this and I see that league/players are going towards that direction, but my point was more about signing 4-5 year deal would be better for the Sharks (or any team) right now. Even if it's very unlikely, it's always possible to start a trend. MG do your magic haha

If Meier is ready to face a rebuild than I'm all for signing him long term. We need veteran players for the new guys, and Meier would be perfect for that.

Wilson tried that trend of signing short term contracts at all times, but it just means you are behind the times of the league.