Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[PatrikBerglund]

Trade Meier, Hertl, Couture, Karlsson and every player over the age of 25 with a value higer than a pick at #25.

Stack the franchise with prospects and picks + tank for more for 2-3 years.

Then come out as a franchise with a bright future in 3 years, instead of living in mediocrity for a decade.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Can the sharks become competitive on a 3 year horizon?

- Sign-and-trade Meier, getting top 15 first in 2023
- Draft in top 5 in 2023, 2024, and 2025
- Vlasic gets LTIRetired magically in the next 3 years
- Couture gets traded with 2M retention for a late 1st in 2024
- Reimer for a second at deadline

Your 2025-2026 san jose sharks:

??? - Hertl - ???
??? - ??? - ???
??? - ??? - ???
??? - ??? - ???

??? - ???
Ferraro - Karlsson
Benning - who cares

Goalies:
???
???

Dead cap:
Jones 1.6M
Couture 2M

1st round Picks:
top 5 in 2023, 2024, 2025
top 15 in 2023
top 30 in 2024

additional: 2nd from remier

At a minimum, I think we'll need to get 2 top 6 F and 1 top pair D from 5 first round picks.

They can be playoff competitive next season with Bedard and the right set of moves. Unlikely but possible. At 2025-26, with Bedard and an extra five million in cap ceiling space, yeah they can be with the right moves but there's a lot that goes into that obviously. Your scenario needs a lot more of those variables hammered out before we can reasonably judge.

 

[Cas]

Can the sharks become competitive on a 3 year horizon?

I suspect that Hertl, Meier, and Eklund will be legitimate top six forwards in 25-26. Bedard/Fantelli/Michkov likely will also be. We'd have to fill in two spots, but hopefully we can get one or both of those internally - someone we already have (Bordeleau, Gushchin, Bystedt, Lund) or another high-quality draft pick (2023 late first, 2024 first). Getting a decent 3C (maybe Couture/Bordeleau/Bystedt) would also be important, but we may have a legitimate forward core.

Defense is harder - we'll likely have Karlsson and Ferraro, but neither are top pairing defensemen now and won't be in 25-26. Internally, we don't likely have a top pair defenseman - Merkley, Knyazev, Laroque, Havelid, all likely top out as second pairing if they do succeed. It's not impossible, but we need to find a legitimate top pairing defenseman somehow and it seems unlikely we'll draft one who will be ready by then.

We have plenty of goaltending lottery tickets, so I don't see a reason to worry about them.

I think playoffs in 25-26 is a very realistic goal, and should be the medium-term goal. We could be a playoff team in 24-25, too. I do not see that happening this year or next year, no matter what we do.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

Effective? Not? How would you change?

Well, rolling out bottom lines consisting of four forwards each is certainly a novel approach to increasing offensive production










(Dammit, not as funny now that I read the parenthetical)

 

[Hodge]

Trade Meier, Hertl, Couture, Karlsson and every player over the age of 25 with a value higer than a pick at #25.

Stack the franchise with prospects and picks + tank for more for 2-3 years.

Then come out as a franchise with a bright future in 3 years, instead of living in mediocrity for a decade.

Hertl, Couture and Karlsson all have negative value. Meier also has marginal value, essentially that of a deadline rental, thanks to his QO.

They do need to move on from all four of those players but more for the cap and roster building flexibility than the assets they will get in return.

 

[DG93]

I suspect that Hertl, Meier, and Eklund will be legitimate top six forwards in 25-26. Bedard/Fantelli/Michkov likely will also be. We'd have to fill in two spots, but hopefully we can get one or both of those internally - someone we already have (Bordeleau, Gushchin, Bystedt, Lund) or another high-quality draft pick (2023 late first, 2024 first). Getting a decent 3C (maybe Couture/Bordeleau/Bystedt) would also be important, but we may have a legitimate forward core.

Defense is harder - we'll likely have Karlsson and Ferraro, but neither are top pairing defensemen now and won't be in 25-26. Internally, we don't likely have a top pair defenseman - Merkley, Knyazev, Laroque, Havelid, all likely top out as second pairing if they do succeed. It's not impossible, but we need to find a legitimate top pairing defenseman somehow and it seems unlikely we'll draft one who will be ready by then.

We have plenty of goaltending lottery tickets, so I don't see a reason to worry about them.

I think playoffs in 25-26 is a very realistic goal, and should be the medium-term goal. We could be a playoff team in 24-25, too. I do not see that happening this year or next year, no matter what we do.

You can also use your improved farm to trade for defensemen...they don't necessarily need to come from the draft directly. Problem is you have to accumulate the farm before you can trade from it, but they're starting to do that this year.

 

[Kcoyote3]

Hertl, Couture and Karlsson all have negative value. Meier also has marginal value, essentially that of a deadline rental, thanks to his QO.

They do need to move on from all four of those players but more for the cap and roster building flexibility than the assets they will get in return.

A team would be willing to gamble on Hertl and send positive assets back. A team like the Wings or Jackets would absolutely do it if they could given their roster construction, rebuild timelines. He’s a big body defensively responsible 60-70 point center when healthy.

Couture if we retained has value to a contender.

Karlsson I don’t think has any value and I don’t think anyone touches him. Meier has good value.

 

[LadyStanley]

Paywall

 

[tiburon12]

A team would be willing to gamble on Hertl and send positive assets back. A team like the Wings or Jackets would absolutely do it if they could given their roster construction, rebuild timelines. He’s a big body defensively responsible 60-70 point center when healthy.

Couture if we retained has value to a contender.

Karlsson I don’t think has any value and I don’t think anyone touches him. Meier has good value.

I think Couture @ 3M retained would be a great option in Colorado. Say what you want about his drive on a losing team, but he's a big time performer on a winning team. He would fit Colorado's window nicely and afford Newhook a little more time to mature into the 2C role.

A package around Girard and picks wouldn't be unreasonable.

 

[mogambomoroo]

I think Couture @ 3M retained would be a great option in Colorado. Say what you want about his drive on a losing team, but he's a big time performer on a winning team. He would fit Colorado's window nicely and afford Newhook a little more time to mature into the 2C role.

A package around Girard and picks wouldn't be unreasonable.

I see this possible, since Girard is their 3rd line LD right now, because they have Toews and Byram (crazy deep defence) I think they will try to get Reimer there as well, but then you try to not retain any salary of Couture.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

Get what you can for EK,Meier,Vlasic,Reimer and Cooch. It’s time to show the league you’re really goin all in.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Get what you can for EK,Meier,Vlasic,Reimer and Cooch. It’s time to show the league you’re really goin all in.

We're not getting anything for EK or Vlasic. As debated above, the Couture return depends on salary retention/cap dumps back.

I agree we need to trade Meier and Reimer to really lose this year, but if we do trade Meier, there will legit be no one with any skill for our prospects to play with. Eklund will be in a really bad spot if the guys on his line to pass to are Lorentz and Gregor lol.

 

[spintops]

We're not getting anything for EK or Vlasic. As debated above, the Couture return depends on salary retention/cap dumps back.

I agree we need to trade Meier and Reimer to really lose this year, but if we do trade Meier, there will legit be no one with any skill for our prospects to play with. Eklund will be in a really bad spot if the guys on his line to pass to are Lorentz and Gregor lol.

Eklund will have to be glued to hertl.

 

[mogambomoroo]

I think you trade Meier in the case he doesn't really want to stay. If he stays, keep playing him with either Couture or Hertl and the new pieces (Bedard, Fantilli, Carlsson) will come just fine based on how the team plays right now (tanking).
I think the big problem with Meier trade is that his trade value is getting little more negative with every bad game. There is no reason to trade him low to get pick lets say #27, if you can keep him and he can start meshing with the new gang. (NY Rangers rebuild, Kreider/Zibanejad)

 

[Gecklund]

Trade Meier, Hertl, Couture, Karlsson and every player over the age of 25 with a value higer than a pick at #25.

Stack the franchise with prospects and picks + tank for more for 2-3 years.

Then come out as a franchise with a bright future in 3 years, instead of living in mediocrity for a decade.

This is a horrible idea. Not the rebuild part but the selling everything that’s not nailed down. then you end up like EDM, BUF, ARI, DET where you have way too long rebuilds because you have no one to insulate your prospects so they’re being thrown into the deep end and you hope they swim. Guess what! They will not swim unless they are a very special player. I say keep EK, Hertl, Vlasic, Couture and let them take the top competition while guys like Eklund, Bordeleau, Bedard develop.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

This is a horrible idea. Not the rebuild part but the selling everything that’s not nailed down. then you end up like EDM, BUF, ARI, DET where you have way too long rebuilds because you have no one to insulate your prospects so they’re being thrown into the deep end and you hope they swim. Guess what! They will not swim unless they are a very special player. I say keep EK, Hertl, Vlasic, Couture and let them take the top competition while guys like Eklund, Bordeleau, Bedard develop.

It may be something they are forced to do anyway. It's not a good idea to keep players who don't want to be here just because the team has a use for them while they're losing. But if they want to stay then they should stay. Most of them aren't getting significant value that makes it worth worrying about. None of these players are getting premium future assets. They're getting what Burns got more or less.

 

[mogambomoroo]

I think the main thing for Mike Grier is to have a closed door meeting with team leaders explaining that there are tough times ahead if/when we keep losing significantly, but it will lead to Sharks getting key pieces from draft and that it will eventually lead to better things.

It's important that they know and are ready for it, almost like the NY Rangers rebuild/retool. It takes patience and honesty, but I think the first step is to look in the mirror and recognize that this team doesn't have it to compete against most of the teams. It's also okay to not be good enough right now, it means they need help and the best way is through the next deep draft where you can find the next "saviour", the next even better "thornton/pavelski/marleau"

The ones that are ready for it, will stay and keep fighting day by day knowing the GM is actually doing everything in his power to make them a playoff/contender team one day. Also I think knowing there is an actual realistic plan will help a lot of players get off their heads and they will probably play with more relaxed way mentally. I think a lot of the problems with this Sharks team come from inside with so many unrealistic expectations that they are blinded from reality.

This is my own opinion.
It's important to be honest, if we play good and succeed hell yeah, but if we are not good enough there will eventually be help on the way.

 

[Selachimorpha]

I think the main thing for Mike Grier is to have a closed door meeting with team leaders explaining that there are tough times ahead if/when we keep losing significantly, but it will lead to Sharks getting key pieces from draft and that it will eventually lead to better things.

It's important that they know and are ready for it, almost like the NY Rangers rebuild/retool. It takes patience and honesty, but I think the first step is to look in the mirror and recognize that this team doesn't have it to compete against most of the teams. It's also okay to not be good enough right now, it means they need help and the best way is through the next deep draft where you can find the next "saviour", the next even better "thornton/pavelski/marleau"

The ones that are ready for it, will stay and keep fighting day by day knowing the GM is actually doing everything in his power to make them a playoff/contender team one day. Also I think knowing there is an actual realistic plan will help a lot of players get off their heads and they will probably play with more relaxed way mentally. I think a lot of the problems with this Sharks team come from inside with so many unrealistic expectations that they are blinded from reality.

This is my own opinion.
It's important to be honest, if we play good and succeed hell yeah, but if we are not good enough there will eventually be help on the way.

Agree with you here. Hence why I think this awful start is actually a blessing in disguise. There shouldn't be any confusion about how bad this team is.

 

[TheBeard]

I think the main thing for Mike Grier is to have a closed door meeting with team leaders explaining that there are tough times ahead if/when we keep losing significantly, but it will lead to Sharks getting key pieces from draft and that it will eventually lead to better things.

This is something that should have happened before the season began. I assume it did.

 

[spintops]

Probably best to try and stack the top 2 lines - Labanc already being benched is pretty bad for the odds he rebuilds trade value.

 

[SjMilhouse]

This is something that should have happened before the season began. I assume it did.

I mean didn't he basically say that? My understanding is he met with the vets/leadership 1:1 to discuss the plan and outlook and that's why Burns said he was open to be moved. Well except Karlsson

 

[one2gamble]

I mean didn't he basically say that? My understanding is he met with the vets/leadership 1:1 to discuss the plan and outlook and that's why Burns said he was open to be moved. Well except Karlsson

Yea, Grier did this, hence the burns trade

 

[Groo]

I think Couture @ 3M retained would be a great option in Colorado. Say what you want about his drive on a losing team, but he's a big time performer on a winning team. He would fit Colorado's window nicely and afford Newhook a little more time to mature into the 2C role.

A package around Girard and picks wouldn't be unreasonable.

I'd want Oskar Olafsson

 

[LadyStanley]

Ch-ch-changes

 

[Cas]

"Mr. Lightollar, I'd like to have the chairs on the promenade deck moved about fifteen feet astern."