Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[Gecklund]

So we should not follow the path of the lightning, knights, Colorado, Blues, Penguins. Got it.

I mean I’ll be honest Grier could follow the path to Mordor and I wouldn’t care. As long as he builds a good team.

 

[Cookersjs]

I don't think the path to victory is to follow everyone else off a cliff!

Sharks need innovative thinking, and Grier hasn't shown any signs of that.

I think that’s a weird but also incorrect bar. Grier has been so active in both building out the development system and moving these tough DW contracts. There’s been a lot to do to even right the ship - there is only so much ‘innovation’ that can take place when your hands AND feet are tied. The first order of business in that situation is to get yourself free before you decide what your going to do with that freedom.

He has done so pretty damn well at that in my opinion, even if the return from his ‘big trades’ have been whelming for much of the fanbase (I have been personally fine with every big trade except the Burns one - at first - yay Duclair).

And even then, the scope of his ‘player development’ vision plan could end up being innovative in its own right. I know player development isn’t a mind blowing thing but I’ve been impressed by how comprehensive Grier’s approach has been and am excited to see if it bears fruit.

At the very least, as a Sharks fan it feels innovative!

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

Lol. Random NHLers. You say that like these guys were journeymen players who bummed around the league for a few years.

Luca Sbisa is a random NHLer. Thomas Vanek, all things considered, is a pretty random NHLer. Neither of who you really want players to model their game after. Tommy Wingels is another, but former Shark of course.

Literally so many hires in hockey ops are ex NHLers, is this… shocking?

Yes Jargon, I'm SHOCKED!.....

Of course not, it's who they are hiring that I find funny. Again, quantity over quality.

 

[hohosaregood]

I don't think the path to victory is to follow everyone else off a cliff!

Sharks need innovative thinking, and Grier hasn't shown any signs of that.

Igor Eronko's is an interesting hire. Former AGM for Omsk and a pretty connected hockey journalist before then.

 

[Random Comment]

Hoping Eklund can step it up a notch this year. Would be happy with 20-25, 45 points

 

[ChompChomp]

Probably that he knows how to play goalie at the NHL Level. To me that would be better than someone who is exceptional at coaching but has never played goalie in the NHL. Or never played in the NHL. Or never played hockey.

So Ryan Miller will be a better goaltending coach than Warren Strelow (zero NHL games played, not even close to a sniff)? Okay...

 

[jMoneyBrah]

So Ryan Miller will be a better goaltending coach than Warren Strelow (zero NHL games played, not even close to a sniff)? Okay...

Huh, the same Warren Strelow that got his start as a goalie coach by getting hired by his lifelong friend, Herb Brooks? I think we can all agree that nepotism always leads to poor results, and having a notable previous relationship with someone in no way could help one have a deeper understanding of their strengths, weaknesses, and capabilities or how they might be to work with.

Not that you, specifically, were complaining about nepotism; you just happened to tee things up nicely for the connection to be made.

 

[Jargon]

Luca Sbisa is a random NHLer. Thomas Vanek, all things considered, is a pretty random NHLer. Neither of who you really want players to model their game after. Tommy Wingels is another, but former Shark of course.

Yes Jargon, I'm SHOCKED!.....

Of course not, it's who they are hiring that I find funny. Again, quantity over quality.

Okay, I’m glad you confirmed because you SEEMED SHOCKED!

How good a player was is honestly never a judge of how good of a scout or op person they’d be. I’m not necessarily saying Wingels is an amazing development coach or that Miller is going to be a great goalie scout, but I also have no idea who they are as a person, what their ability to evaluate skill or teach others is. They might be bad at it, or they might be great — I hope management spoke to them, evaluated their skills correctly and hired them because of that. I assume having insight into the game helps — sometimes ex players are amazing at front office jobs, other times they’re not, their skill in playing doesn’t usually matter a ton.

I know nothing of these guys off the ice to make an accurate assessment but you tend to react hilariously negative to any news that comes out — like if they redid the ice at the arena you’d be like “lol Grier messes up again by replacing perfectly good ice with his icier variety”. It’s… a little silly.

 

[Gecklund]

Okay, I’m glad you confirmed because you SEEMED SHOCKED!

How good a player was is honestly never a judge of how good of a scout or op person they’d be. I’m not necessarily saying Wingels is an amazing development coach or that Miller is going to be a great goalie scout, but I also have no idea who they are as a person, what their ability to evaluate skill or teach others is. They might be bad at it, or they might be great — I hope management spoke to them, evaluated their skills correctly and hired them because of that. I assume having insight into the game helps — sometimes ex players are amazing at front office jobs, other times they’re not, their skill in playing doesn’t usually matter a ton.

I know nothing of these guys off the ice to make an accurate assessment but you tend to react hilariously negative to any news that comes out — like if they redid the ice at the arena you’d be like “lol Grier messes up again by replacing perfectly good ice with his icier variety”. It’s… a little silly.

I don’t know at all about Vanek and Miller cause ya know not Sharks but Wingels was always talked about as a great locker room guy.

 

[Hodge]

Seems like a lot of people don't actually know what nepotism means.

I also don't understand what "innovation" in a scouting role even entails. I'm not anti-stats by any means as they're usually better than nothing but 99.9% of hockey stats stuff is a boondoggle. This should be obvious to anyone paying attention. I would rather have a former elite All-Star NHL player identifying hockey talent than some nerd who posts charts on Twitter. We already tried this with DWJr. and it was an abject failure. When all is said and done I have a feeling Eklund will be the only player we drafted from 2018-21 who has a NHL career.

 

[Gecklund]

Seems like a lot of people don't actually know what nepotism means.

I also don't understand what "innovation" in a scouting role even entails. I'm not anti-stats by any means as they're usually better than nothing but 99.9% of hockey stats stuff is a boondoggle. This should be obvious to anyone paying attention. I would rather have a former elite All-Star NHL player identifying hockey talent than some nerd who posts charts on Twitter. We already tried this with DWJr. and it was an abject failure. When all is said and done I have a feeling Eklund will be the only player we drafted from 2018-21 who has a NHL career.

There are still some guys who could carve out a solid career.

From 21, Laroque looked good before injury last season. Cardwell had a great year last year.

From 20, Bordeleau could figure it out (although I don’t think so), Robins and Gushchin both looked good in the AHL in their first year. I also really like Alex Young although he probably won’t be anything.

2019 got us Gawanke! But yeah that draft wasn’t great. 2 of them included in the Timo trade. 1 in the Kunin trade. 1 in the Gawanke trade. 1 in the Karlsson trade.

2018 has Linus Karlsson who looked good for VAN at one point. 49 in 72. They like him.

I could see us getting a bottom 6er or two (Robins, Cardwell), a top 9 type guy in Gushchin, and I could see Karlsson being a middle sixer for VAN. 5 guys in 5 drafts definitely isn’t good but I think it’s pretty average or maybe slightly below average.

As one of DWjr’s biggest supporters, the results weren’t as good as I was hoping. I still am happy with the tone of the draft picks though. I hated when our top prospect was a guy like Freddie Hamilton or Benn Ferreiro. At least DWjr gave us some entertainment just wish there was a bit more results to it. I do wonder how much he was actually able to scout though. Seems like Grier has hired 5+ scouts and I don’t remember hearing anyone had left. Do we have a ton of scouts now or is it average now and really low before? Am I totally misremembering things at 7:15 AM?

 

[Hodge]

There are still some guys who could carve out a solid career.

From 21, Laroque looked good before injury last season. Cardwell had a great year last year.

From 20, Bordeleau could figure it out (although I don’t think so), Robins and Gushchin both looked good in the AHL in their first year. I also really like Alex Young although he probably won’t be anything.

2019 got us Gawanke! But yeah that draft wasn’t great. 2 of them included in the Timo trade. 1 in the Kunin trade. 1 in the Gawanke trade. 1 in the Karlsson trade.

2018 has Linus Karlsson who looked good for VAN at one point. 49 in 72. They like him.

I could see us getting a bottom 6er or two (Robins, Cardwell), a top 9 type guy in Gushchin, and I could see Karlsson being a middle sixer for VAN. 5 guys in 5 drafts definitely isn’t good but I think it’s pretty average or maybe slightly below average.

Really don't see a path for any of those guys to play 200+ NHL games. Laroque's skating was a question mark even before the injuries. Cardwell only had a "great" year because he was playing junior hockey at 20 years old. Others including Gawanke all look like nothing too.

 

[Gecklund]

Really don't see a path for any of those guys to play 200+ NHL games. Laroque's skating was a question mark even before the injuries. Cardwell only had a "great" year because he was playing junior hockey at 20 years old. Others including Gawanke all look like nothing too.

I did just throw in a bit of an edit as well. Robins I actually could see being that. Gushchin maybe as well. Linus Karlsson I haven’t watched at all this year and I’m not sure if this is because Canucks pool is freaking absolutely barren but my Nucks fans buddies are pretty high on him. The rest I’ll give you as at best optimistic for sure though.

DWjr was at best average. For as many things that Grier has done that I disagreed with, his last draft was by far my favorite in the last decade. My pre draft takes are generally much better than my post draft because no teal tint I wasn’t a fan of his 2022 draft but we’ve seen some solid development from those guys.

 

[Jargon]

Really don't see a path for any of those guys to play 200+ NHL games. Laroque's skating was a question mark even before the injuries. Cardwell only had a "great" year because he was playing junior hockey at 20 years old. Others including Gawanke all look like nothing too.

I think Guschin, Bordeleau, Laroque and Robins have the biggest chance of making it from his draft picks. I’m willing to bet on Guschin over everyone - he’s skilled and has a great motor and didn’t look out of place in the NHL. If he keeps getting stronger, I see him having an outside chance of being a top 6 winger or a scoring 3rd liner.

 

[gaucholoco3]

I think Guschin, Bordeleau, Laroque and Robins have the biggest chance of making it from his draft picks. I’m willing to bet on Guschin over everyone - he’s skilled and has a great motor and didn’t look out of place in the NHL. If he keeps getting stronger, I see him having an outside chance of being a top 6 winger or a scoring 3rd liner.

I think Gushchin has the best chance because he has an “elite” skill in his shot that can get him into the NHL but he will need the right situation and linemates.

Musty - Bystedt - Gushchin

Could be a decent scoring 3rd line. They would just need the depth to have those guys not playing up.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

This time of the off season is painfully slow…

 

[Jargon]

I did just throw in a bit of an edit as well. Robins I actually could see being that. Gushchin maybe as well. Linus Karlsson I haven’t watched at all this year and I’m not sure if this is because Canucks pool is freaking absolutely barren but my Nucks fans buddies are pretty high on him. The rest I’ll give you as at best optimistic for sure though.

DWjr was at best average. For as many things that Grier has done that I disagreed with, his last draft was by far my favorite in the last decade. My pre draft takes are generally much better than my post draft because no teal tint I wasn’t a fan of his 2022 draft but we’ve seen some solid development from those guys.

I thought the 22 draft was a bust but Bystedt is turning out to be a fantastic pick, Havelid looks good too and Lund I’m most dubious of but we’ll see. This summer’s was amazing but of course we’ll see if it actually pans out.

I think we have a TON of scouts, we might be up there with the most compared to other teams (I swear Sheng said that in a podcast but I might be making it up). I do think it’s a little unfair to judge Grier vs. DWJr when the former has way higher picks to choose from and we don’t even know exactly if Bystedt was his pick or Grier’s. Not to mention, not nearly enough time has passed yet to do a proper comparison.

 

[Gecklund]

I thought the 22 draft was a bust but Bystedt is turning out to be a fantastic pick, Havelid looks good too and Lund I’m most dubious of but we’ll see. This summer’s was amazing but of course we’ll see if it actually pans out.

I think we have a TON of scouts, we might be up there with the most compared to other teams (I swear Sheng said that in a podcast but I might be making it up). I do think it’s a little unfair to judge Grier vs. DWJr when the former has way higher picks to choose from and we don’t even know exactly if Bystedt was his pick or Grier’s. Not to mention, not nearly enough time has passed yet to do a proper comparison.

I HATED the Bystedt pick. I also HATED the Lund pick and Beaupit and Muldowney and Barnett and Laubach. Basically only kind of liked the Havelid pick but loved the Furlong pick. I didn’t know enough about Fisher to have an opinion on that. Bystedt is really the only one I’ve come around on. I don’t think Lund will be anything but who knows maybe I’ll be wrong. Bystedt and Havelid alone make that draft worthwhile though if they pan out.

Am I misremembering or did they just not have scouts really prior to Grier?

 

[Jargon]

I HATED the Bystedt pick. I also HATED the Lund pick and Beaupit and Muldowney and Barnett and Laubach. Basically only kind of liked the Havelid pick but loved the Furlong pick. I didn’t know enough about Fisher to have an opinion on that. Bystedt is really the only one I’ve come around on. I don’t think Lund will be anything but who knows maybe I’ll be wrong. Bystedt and Havelid alone make that draft worthwhile though if they pan out.

Am I misremembering or did they just not have scouts really prior to Grier?

They definitely had some but it seems Grier has expanded every possible department significantly.

 

[Kcoyote3]

I definitely preferred Kulich over Bystedt, but it's still a good pick. Lund was a reach IMO, but he's a second round talent for sure, so not terrible. Havelid has lots of room to grow into a Torey Krug-lite type for the Sharks. Still would have preferred Hutson given our lack of real dynamic talent on defense.

Beaupit, Muldowney, Barnett, Laubach were just not great picks, but it wasn't that deep of a draft. Others I preferred for sure though.

 

[Lebanezer]

I definitely preferred Kulich over Bystedt, but it's still a good pick. Lund was a reach IMO, but he's a second round talent for sure, so not terrible. Havelid has lots of room to grow into a Torey Krug-lite type for the Sharks. Still would have preferred Hutson given our lack of real dynamic talent on defense.

Beaupit, Muldowney, Barnett, Laubach were just not great picks, but it wasn't that deep of a draft. Others I preferred for sure though.

Hutson is insanely good. Understandable bias given his size, especially for Grier, but also crazy he wasn’t taken earlier. Glad they took a shot on Cagnoni in the most recent draft.

 

[Gecklund]

I definitely preferred Kulich over Bystedt, but it's still a good pick. Lund was a reach IMO, but he's a second round talent for sure, so not terrible. Havelid has lots of room to grow into a Torey Krug-lite type for the Sharks. Still would have preferred Hutson given our lack of real dynamic talent on defense.

Beaupit, Muldowney, Barnett, Laubach were just not great picks, but it wasn't that deep of a draft. Others I preferred for sure though.

My guys were Kulich, Chesley, and Casey or Goyette.

 

[PettersonHughes]

Canucks fan here in peace with two questions.

I see that you guys really revamped the wings (currently listing Barabanov, then some mix of Zetterlund/ Hoffman/ Duclair/ Zadina/ Labanc, mainly projects and question marks). Would there be any interest in adding the likes of Garland (usually good for 40 point floor to around 50 point ceiling, plays both wings) or Beauvillier (former 1st round pick, 40 points this past season, pending UFA)? Depending on the offer, Hoglander may be on the table also. If there's interest, what would be available? (Not looking to take on much cap).

Also, would there be interest in Rathbone? His skillset is the same as our #1 D in Hughes and also in Hronek, both of whom are mainstays but I think he could help with the offensive end in your D-core (Ferraro/ Rutta/ Vlasic/ MacDonald/ Benning/ Thrun/ Shak don't have too much puck-moving upside from what I've seen). If there's interest, he could also sweeten a move for either Garland or Beauvillier, but again I'm curious what the Sharks might offer. Thoughts? Have a good day.

 

[hohosaregood]

Canucks fan here in peace with two questions.

I see that you guys really revamped the wings (currently listing Barabanov, then some mix of Zetterlund/ Hoffman/ Duclair/ Zadina/ Labanc, mainly projects and question marks). Would there be any interest in adding the likes of Garland (usually good for 40 point floor to around 50 point ceiling, plays both wings) or Beauvillier (former 1st round pick, 40 points this past season, pending UFA)? Depending on the offer, Hoglander may be on the table also. If there's interest, what would be available? (Not looking to take on much cap).

Also, would there be interest in Rathbone? His skillset is the same as our #1 D in Hughes and also in Hronek, both of whom are mainstays but I think he could help with the offensive end in your D-core (Ferraro/ Rutta/ Vlasic/ MacDonald/ Benning/ Thrun/ Shak don't have too much puck-moving upside from what I've seen). If there's interest, he could also sweeten a move for either Garland or Beauvillier, but again I'm curious what the Sharks might offer. Thoughts? Have a good day.

It would have to be a hockey trade with low value picks. Too many bodies already and no interest in trading away valuable futures.

 

[weastern bias]

Canucks fan here in peace with two questions.

I see that you guys really revamped the wings (currently listing Barabanov, then some mix of Zetterlund/ Hoffman/ Duclair/ Zadina/ Labanc, mainly projects and question marks). Would there be any interest in adding the likes of Garland (usually good for 40 point floor to around 50 point ceiling, plays both wings) or Beauvillier (former 1st round pick, 40 points this past season, pending UFA)? Depending on the offer, Hoglander may be on the table also. If there's interest, what would be available? (Not looking to take on much cap).

Also, would there be interest in Rathbone? His skillset is the same as our #1 D in Hughes and also in Hronek, both of whom are mainstays but I think he could help with the offensive end in your D-core (Ferraro/ Rutta/ Vlasic/ MacDonald/ Benning/ Thrun/ Shak don't have too much puck-moving upside from what I've seen). If there's interest, he could also sweeten a move for either Garland or Beauvillier, but again I'm curious what the Sharks might offer. Thoughts? Have a good day.

San Jose isn't looking to add right now

All the wingers we've gotten so far this offseason are value plays

Duclair was a way to shake down a cap strapped team to turn a 4th liner and a 5th rounder into a valuable asset

Zadina was a zero risk UFA who will be restricted upon expiry and is still young enough to have upside

Hoffman and Granlund are cap dumps to make the Karlsson trade work who have deals that expire 2 and 3 years sooner than the contract we traded out

The only way I could see us targeting one of the Vancouver wingers in question is if we were taking them as a pure cap dump with little to no value going back in return, we're not close to being competitive so we're not looking to add prime aged talent

A young talented D is different, and could be very interesting since we don't have any prospective top pair defensemen in our system, but I don't know enough about Rathbone to know if he's someone we should be targeting

We have a couple of prospects who have middle pair potential, the only young D men we should be giving up real value for are ones with legitimate top pairing potential