Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[gaucholoco3]

We should also be getting two 1sts worth of value for our retention. 28th overall + Minten comes pretty close IMO. Even at 7.6Mx4 Karlsson is a pure cap dump so we're probably not getting much more than Chicago would.

EK at 7.6x4 definitely has positive value. Granted getting GM’s to pay significant assets is another story.

At this point unless retaining 50% I would be disappointed but satisfied with a single 1st.

 

[pappaf2]

Just has the feeling like sharks fans will be disappointed with the return.

 

[Jargon]

Just has the feeling like sharks fans will be disappointed with the return.

I’m preparing to be disappointed, for sure.

 

[DG93]

Just has the feeling like sharks fans will be disappointed with the return.

Totally but hopefully it's okay rather than bad lol

 

[STL Shark]

Maybe the Blackhawks really like Robertson and Niemela and realize they have to hit the cap floor somehow (still over $5 million under even after adding Hall and Foligno)?

I would gladly take 28th overall and Minten for Karlsson with 33% retained.

Would imagine that Liljegren would be coming to someone in this type of deal as well. Nowhere for him in Toronto if you add Karlsson and he carries roughly 1st or early 2nd value like Sandin did for Toronto to acquire that Boston 1st rounder from Washington.

Get Liljegren, 28th overall, and another piece and that’s a good haul all things considered. Would even take Murray back as a cap dump if need be.

 

[Hodge]

Would imagine that Liljegren would be coming to someone in this type of deal as well. Nowhere for him in Toronto if you add Karlsson and he carries roughly 1st or early 2nd value like Sandin did for Toronto to acquire that Boston 1st rounder from Washington.

Get Liljegren, 28th overall, and another piece and that’s a good haul all things considered. Would even take Murray back as a cap dump if need be.

Only thing that makes me really doubt that rumor is Chicago is already retaining on McCabe through 2025, so this would tie up 2 out of 3 retention slots for 2 seasons. Maybe not the biggest deal considering their only deadline rental candidate this year is Dickinson. Leafs would really need to make it worth their while though.

 

[STL Shark]

Only thing that makes me really doubt that rumor is Chicago is already retaining on McCabe through 2025, so this would tie up 2 out of 3 retention slots for 2 seasons. Maybe not the biggest deal considering their only deadline rental candidate this year is Dickinson. Leafs would really need to make it worth their while though.

Wouldn’t be shocked if we sent something their way too. I think they could be a suitor for Kahkonen as it’s been rumored some teams think he can be salvaged and turn into a #1 immediately. If we take on Murray’s money and spot, no room for Kahkonen here.

Also see them being a potential suitor for Ferraro as well given they’re going to want to at least be competitive with Bedard now.

The premise makes sense, but seems far fetched that a deal of this magnitude goes from open canvas to consummated with 3 teams this quickly with Toronto also dealing with Nylander/Matthews talks.

 

[Hodge]

Wouldn’t be shocked if we sent something their way too. I think they could be a suitor for Kahkonen as it’s been rumored some teams think he can be salvaged and turn into a #1 immediately. If we take on Murray’s money and spot, no room for Kahkonen here.

Also see them being a potential suitor for Ferraro as well given they’re going to want to at least be competitive with Bedard now.

The premise makes sense, but seems far fetched that a deal of this magnitude goes from open canvas to consummated with 3 teams this quickly with Toronto also dealing with Nylander/Matthews talks.

The more I think about it, if there's any truth to the rumor, it would probably be the Boston 1st and Minten going to Chicago and Robertson and Niemela coming to us. Which sucks but we're clearing 7.6Mx4 in cap and honoring Karlsson's trade request while the Blackhawks are purely eating money.

 

[gaucholoco3]

The more I think about it, if there's any truth to the rumor, it would probably be the Boston 1st and Minten going to Chicago and Robertson and Niemela coming to us. Which sucks but we're clearing 7.6Mx4 in cap and honoring Karlsson's trade request while the Blackhawks are purely eating money.

That feels a lot more like a cap dump which Grier has stated this is not going to be. Unless EK flat out demands a trade instead of playing in SJ I would rather just keep him if that’s all the return would be.

Toronto is logical for wanting EK but they really don’t have assets that would be appealing to the Sharks. I think Seattle will net the best return if a surprise team (Det, Pit, Buf) doesn’t appear overnight.

 

[Hodge]

That feels a lot more like a cap dump which Grier has stated this is not going to be. Unless EK flat out demands a trade instead of playing in SJ I would rather just keep him if that’s all the return would be.

Toronto is logical for wanting EK but they really don’t have assets that would be appealing to the Sharks. I think Seattle will net the best return if a surprise team (Det, Pit, Buf) doesn’t appear overnight.

If you keep him, you run the risk of Karlsson getting injured or his production falling off and then he's completely untradeable again. Robertson could probably play in our top six next season and Niemela would be a top 4 defenseman on the Cuda with potential to play on our third pair the following year. I would hope to get more but it's not nothing either.

 

[STL Shark]

If you keep him, you run the risk of Karlsson getting injured or his production falling off and then he's completely untradeable again. Robertson could probably play in our top six next season and Niemela would be a top 4 defenseman on the Cuda with potential to play on our third pair the following year. I would hope to get more but it's not nothing either.

Thinking about this more now, if there’s a third team broker, there would be a heck of a lot more teams lining up with way more to offer than Toronto for Karlsson that cheap. If that’s the route that Grier goes, I think we get a good return. Something in the mold of the Provorov deal where we retain a little, launder a little, and take back a shorter term bad contract in exchange for good assets.

 

[sharski]

Burns: "wtf man"

That's my GM! Don't take no shit from anybody!

I’m gonna go on record in predicting EK gets traded to Seattle tomorrow. Not sure if before or during the draft. I think it happens tomorrow. No idea of the return. My guess is #20 this year and possibly a prospect? Can’t expect a whole helluva lot if they’re taking the whole contract.

Nice! We need more people here to put their money where their mouth is, make a call and go all in

 

[tahoesharksfan]

Nice! We need more people here to put their money where themir mouth is, make a call and go all in

I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is....I WILL be drinking heavily during the draft tomorrow! Take that to the bank!!

 

[OrrNumber4]

The trade that makes sense for Toronto is to trade Tavares ++ for Karlsson or move Nylander for assets, then trade those assets for Karlsson.

 

[Jargon]

I really enjoy reading Grier interviews because he is almost entirely open about what he’s going to do. It’s such a drastic change from Doug Wilson, I kinda love it.

 

[dzubrus8]

Haven't been up to date on the last few pages so coming in overtop. Excited you guys got MB29. I think I'm going to get his Sharks jersey.

Not sure if you all have met Bleedred, he's the Devils board's goalie guru (also a Sharks fan) and he is not at all a Blackwood fan. He watches every goal conceded around the league each year and thinks Blackwood is one of the worst goalies in the league statistically.

That said, pre-injuries he looked like the Devils' future in net. I think there's also possibly something going on mentally because of how stark the dropoff was when he returned. Change of scenery will be great for him.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

I really enjoy reading Grier interviews because he is almost entirely open about what he’s going to do. It’s such a drastic change from Doug Wilson, I kinda love it.

There’s the usual GM speak when it Comes to not commenting on certain subjects in regards to players contracts and who they’re speaking to etc. Thats to be expected as you’re competing against other GM’s for insider info. Grier is a very logical and sensical GM. I think there’s a lot of forethought and strategy, long game thinking and planning when it comes to building the team and organization he envisions and wants to build. DW was in an entirely different situation so I appreciate his approach in hindsight, but his lack of blood letting what wouldn’t seem to be confidential information was indeed frustrating as a fan.

Haven't been up to date on the last few pages so coming in overtop. Excited you guys got MB29. I think I'm going to get his Sharks jersey.

Not sure if you all have met Bleedred, he's the Devils board's goalie guru (also a Sharks fan) and he is not at all a Blackwood fan. He watches every goal conceded around the league each year and thinks Blackwood is one of the worst goalies in the league statistically.

That said, pre-injuries he looked like the Devils' future in net. I think there's also possibly something going on mentally because of how stark the dropoff was when he returned. Change of scenery will be great for him.

Yeah, I think this could be purely taking a flier on a reclamation project. Paid a 6th so not super consequential. If you can get him to build his value back up, you have the option to keep him or trade him for a profit.

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

Haven't been up to date on the last few pages so coming in overtop. Excited you guys got MB29. I think I'm going to get his Sharks jersey.

Not sure if you all have met Bleedred, he's the Devils board's goalie guru (also a Sharks fan) and he is not at all a Blackwood fan. He watches every goal conceded around the league each year and thinks Blackwood is one of the worst goalies in the league statistically.

That said, pre-injuries he looked like the Devils' future in net. I think there's also possibly something going on mentally because of how stark the dropoff was when he returned. Change of scenery will be great for him.

Re: bleedred
@Bleedred

Have we met him?! We're trying to see if Bleedred is still alive after hearing about how the worst player in the league has been traded from his favorite team to his favorite team. Any updates of him?

 

[Jargon]

There’s the usual GM speak when it Comes to not commenting on certain subjects in regards to players contracts and who they’re speaking to etc. Thats to be expected as you’re competing against other GM’s for insider info. Grier is a very logical and sensical GM. I think there’s a lot of forethought and strategy, long game thinking and planning when it comes to building the team and organization he envisions and wants to build. DW was in an entirely different situation so I appreciate his approach in hindsight, but his lack of blood letting what wouldn’t seem to be confidential information was indeed frustrating as a fan.


Yeah, I think this could be purely taking a flier on a reclamation project. Paid a 6th so not super consequential. If you can get him to build his value back up, you have the option to keep him or trade him for a profit.

Agreed on Grier. I dig the methodical approach. Hopefully it pays off. As I keep saying, I think we’ll get real insight into Grier’s overall plan (what kind of skill player he’s after, what Year 1 of this rebuild is supposed to look like, etc) this draft and the subsequent free agency.

 

[landshark]

Re: bleedred
@Bleedred

Have we met him?! We're trying to see if Bleedred is still alive after hearing about how the worst player in the league has been traded from his favorite team to his favorite team. Any updates of him?

Watch that 6th rounder we sent becomes the next Lil' Joe.

 

[Shark in Hockeytown]

On any Karlsson deal, remember owners don't pay cap hits; they pay salaries. The way to sell retention on Karlsson to Plattner is the salary savings. Even 50% retention looks good then. The choice is:
1. Keep Karlsson, have a bad team, see attendance (and revenue) crash, and pay Karlsson $11.5M/year. Lose money.
2. Trade Karlsson with 50% retention, have a worse team, see attendance (and revenue) crash, and pay Karlsson $5.75M/year. Lose less money.
Obviously, less retention is better from the owner's point of view, but making the deal and reducing the total salary bill is the object. When you're tanking rebuilding, you want to reduce salaries paid to the lowest level possible while just making the cap floor. In any case, the Sharks are going to be bad for several more years no matter what they do, so Plattner should bite the bullet to get the best return with the hope of turning around the team ASAP (like 3-4 years).

 

[Pinkfloyd]

On any Karlsson deal, remember owners don't pay cap hits; they pay salaries. The way to sell retention on Karlsson to Plattner is the salary savings. Even 50% retention looks good then. The choice is:
1. Keep Karlsson, have a bad team, see attendance (and revenue) crash, and pay Karlsson $11.5M/year. Lose money.
2. Trade Karlsson with 50% retention, have a worse team, see attendance (and revenue) crash, and pay Karlsson $5.75M/year. Lose less money.
Obviously, less retention is better from the owner's point of view, but making the deal and reducing the total salary bill is the object. When you're tanking rebuilding, you want to reduce salaries paid to the lowest level possible while just making the cap floor. In any case, the Sharks are going to be bad for several more years no matter what they do, so Plattner should bite the bullet to get the best return with the hope of turning around the team ASAP (like 3-4 years).

You're still selling 20 mil in dead money trading Karlsson at 50% before you even talk about what the return is asking the Sharks to take on. Most contending teams are going to be moving dollar to dollar on cap or sending more our way in a deal like this so you're probably not saving money short term on a deal like this either...not when it's 50%. The goal with Karlsson isn't and shouldn't be to worry about the salary as much as just getting something done to not let this linger. If Grier doesn't get a deal done, it would be understandable but it would be a huge mark against him that can have significant consequences for the team and their future. Because as much as Karlsson is public about this request, he's done everything you can ask of him this past season to drive up his value to make him tradeable. He has given Grier no specific limitations like most in his position have done. That kind of leeway has a time limit, imo. Any assistance a trade return has with Karlsson going elsewhere is beneficial as it relates to picks and prospects no matter the price monetarily to make a deal happen.

The other thing to account for is that the floor is just a hair under 62 mil. The Sharks are at 69.4. When the cap goes up, the floor will go up with it.

 

[landshark]

You're still selling 20 mil in dead money trading Karlsson at 50% before you even talk about what the return is asking the Sharks to take on. Most contending teams are going to be moving dollar to dollar on cap or sending more our way in a deal like this so you're probably not saving money short term on a deal like this either...not when it's 50%. The goal with Karlsson isn't and shouldn't be to worry about the salary as much as just getting something done to not let this linger. If Grier doesn't get a deal done, it would be understandable but it would be a huge mark against him that can have significant consequences for the team and their future. Because as much as Karlsson is public about this request, he's done everything you can ask of him this past season to drive up his value to make him tradeable. He has given Grier no specific limitations like most in his position have done. That kind of leeway has a time limit, imo. Any assistance a trade return has with Karlsson going elsewhere is beneficial as it relates to picks and prospects no matter the price monetarily to make a deal happen.

The other thing to account for is that the floor is just a hair under 62 mil. The Sharks are at 69.4. When the cap goes up, the floor will go up with it.

I think the closer to the season and definitely post-free agency Karl might have more of an opinion on which teams he would like to go to.

 

[Barrie22]

I think the closer to the season and definitely post-free agency Karl might have more of an opinion on which teams he would like to go to.

Closer to the season also limits the amount of teams that will be able to make the trade. Pre-free agency is the best time.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I think the closer to the season and definitely post-free agency Karl might have more of an opinion on which teams he would like to go to.

Anytime past the first week of free agency and the leverage the Sharks have plummets. Teams are not going to wait for us to make up our mind before addressing their needs during the most active time of the year. And that means less flexibility and less suitors as it's already difficult to make something happen because of his contract. They need to get this done now preferably but if Karlsson is still a Shark this time next week, he'll probably be a Shark for all of next season as well.