Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[jMoneyBrah]

Great post dude. I'd only counter one of your Meh picks (Burns) with the same reality that is around Meier. Once they committed to moving the player, the return was always going to less that what we are used to for a player of that caliber. Until the covid cap is back to normal, i think that's the reality, and unfortunately the Sharks are the biggest offenders in having so many guys on long aging contracts. In other words, Burns was never going to go for more.

I bolded this sentiment because I think it's also important for everyone to realize that there are few scenarios, if any, where a GM comes into the situation the Sharks had and in under a year have fans "over the moon". It's perfectly OK (and bodes well for the futures) that Grier succeeded on his vision and plan with few bad moves. No GM bats 1.000%.

It feels dead horsey to still beat this drum, and i hate calling out good posters like the Melkman, but like idk how it's possible to be down on Grier after everything that's happened with context.

Thanks for the compliment, fellow dude. As far as Burns, that’s an entirely fair point and I pretty much fully agree. That’s largely why, while I was extremely underwhelmed, I put the Burns trade in the “meh” column.

As far as the rest, I 100% agree.

As an aside, I’m finding this era terribly interesting, as the Sharks haven’t ever gone through a rebuild. And as much credit as DW gets and deserves for two decades of being in the hunt for a championship, Lombardi left him with a far more complete roster and a better pool of young players and prospects without any of the encumbrances of long term iron clad high dollar contracts.

For a long part of his term Wilson was able to send assets out to land those big trades, and if he graduated one prospect every couple of years that was sufficient (or at least that’s what his actions show he thought, the Sharks perennial lack of depth come playoff time is one of the overarching themes of his tenure). Presumably, Grier will have far more opportunities to pick towards the top of the draft, but he’ll be under much greater pressure to graduate more prospects to the NHL on a regular basis.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

I seem to remember one reason Hertl decided to sign the extension in SJ was he was told they weren't rebuilding.. A little over a year later and Burns is gone, followed by Timo, and Erik is asking to go. Am I missing something or do we all expect Tomas to wanna be moved as well?

I think interim GM Joe Will should never have been trusted to have a handle on where the Sharks were headed. But to be fair, when that contract was signed Will was probably working under the understanding that Hasso wanted to compete and to that point, DW was probably selling the narrative that they could.

Even after Grier was hired it wasn’t actually all that clear that the rebuild was fully on until a third of the way, or roughly about, through the season. A lot of the offseason signings Grier made, through the tealest tinted glasses, could be viewed as moves to improve the team’s depth and competitiveness.

 

[Hodge]

I seem to remember one reason Hertl decided to sign the extension in SJ was he was told they weren't rebuilding.. A little over a year later and Burns is gone, followed by Timo, and Erik is asking to go. Am I missing something or do we all expect Tomas to wanna be moved as well?

Let’s hope so.

 

[tiburon12]

Was thinking about Boston today and their need for a C or two and that their window will slightly close when Marchand and hall need new deals in two years.

Would you trade Hertl @50% (yes, I know) for a swayman + BOS 1sts in 2025 & 2026?

Or, what would a deal look like to get both of those picks? Possible at all?

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

Was thinking about Boston today and their need for a C or two and that their window will slightly close when Marchand and hall need new deals in two years.

Would you trade Hertl @50% (yes, I know) for a swayman + BOS 1sts in 2025 & 2026?

Or, what would a deal look like to get both of those picks? Possible at all?

No. Just because the length of the contract. With EK, Burns, and Hertl, we’d have no retention slots for 2 years and only have 1 available retention slot for 2 years after that.

 

[hohosaregood]

Was thinking about Boston today and their need for a C or two and that their window will slightly close when Marchand and hall need new deals in two years.

Would you trade Hertl @50% (yes, I know) for a swayman + BOS 1sts in 2025 & 2026?

Or, what would a deal look like to get both of those picks? Possible at all?

We'd need to take cap from Boston. They have too little room to even ice a roster. I'd guess something like Hertl for Coyle+Reilly+Lysell+stuff and whatever else to even things out.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I seem to remember one reason Hertl decided to sign the extension in SJ was he was told they weren't rebuilding.. A little over a year later and Burns is gone, followed by Timo, and Erik is asking to go. Am I missing something or do we all expect Tomas to wanna be moved as well?

I expect him to want to be moved at some point during his contract but not now. I believe he wants to stay at least for some time due to his four month old wanting him to stick around for now.

 

[themelkman]

You called out the culture improving, but i seem to remember a few times the team talking about how much better the room was this year over the past few. Here's Benning recently saying it was good: Benning reveals how losing season impacted Sharks' locker room

Others have already pushed back about nepotism, though it's only about family. Either way, Grier put in his work in other organizations before this.

IDK man, i jsut see you lob these criticisms at Grier (another being moves he made, in a different thread) that aren't fully grounded in reality, so much so that it seems like a bias is getting in the way of seeing the truth. His good move - bad move ratio is heavily good

I actually think I have softened a lot on Grier this year given my initial reaction. I also remember similar articles about the culture getting better when Kane left and in other years so I take that with a grain of salt.

From my point of view, many on here are okay with writing off bad moves because Grier is new when if Wilson made the same move it would be talked about for months. I’m not willing to do that because I was hoping moves like that would end with a new GM.

People seem very hopeful that Grier is seeing the reality of his situation now and I hope that is true, but I still worry about his ability to make the big trades in a way that is actually helpful for our future.

 

[Gecklund]

Was thinking about Boston today and their need for a C or two and that their window will slightly close when Marchand and hall need new deals in two years.

Would you trade Hertl @50% (yes, I know) for a swayman + BOS 1sts in 2025 & 2026?

Or, what would a deal look like to get both of those picks? Possible at all?

Hell yeah I would. Boston won’t though.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I actually think I have softened a lot on Grier this year given my initial reaction. I also remember similar articles about the culture getting better when Kane left and in other years so I take that with a grain of salt.

From my point of view, many on here are okay with writing off bad moves because Grier is new when if Wilson made the same move it would be talked about for months. I’m not willing to do that because I was hoping moves like that would end with a new GM.

People seem very hopeful that Grier is seeing the reality of his situation now and I hope that is true, but I still worry about his ability to make the big trades in a way that is actually helpful for our future.

I would consider the Meier trade as a good indicator of a big trade being made in a way that is actually helpful to our future.

 

[themelkman]

I would consider the Meier trade as a good indicator of a big trade being made in a way that is actually helpful to our future.

Hard to say right now. He didn’t get anything that wows. A good d prospect, a first, a second and some AHLers so far.

It has the potential to be good, but certainly no one’s going to say we robbed them no matter what it becomes

 

[Bizz]

Timo's getting an 8x8.5M

if that's all it would've taken, then Mike Grier's tenure is looking to be a real short one.

 

[LadyStanley]

10 NHL free agents with the biggest red flags

It's easy to make a mistake shopping in the free-agent market and these available players have qualities that make them riskier than most.

sports.yahoo.com

Former Shark Hill included (red flag - lack of track record)

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Hard to say right now. He didn’t get anything that wows. A good d prospect, a first, a second and some AHLers so far.

It has the potential to be good, but certainly no one’s going to say we robbed them no matter what it becomes

Something that wows is pretty relative and subjective. All I'm saying is that the trade seems to be a pretty good indicator of understanding the reality of the team's situation and being helpful for the team's future. It's possible all the assets acquired do nothing for the team's future but the trade itself looks to tick the boxes of understanding the situation and assisting the team down the road or at least improving the odds to do so which is more or less the same thing in this context. We don't need to rob a team for it to be a positive deal for the future.

 

[Levie]

Timo's getting an 8x8.5M

if that's all it would've taken, then Mike Grier's tenure is looking to be a real short one.

I fail to see how signing Meier for 8x8.5m helps the sharks rebuild at all. The team sucked with Meier.

 

[Bizz]

I fail to see how signing Meier for 8x8.5m helps the sharks rebuild at all. The team sucked with Meier.

If Mike Grier cannot sign his 2nd best player in his prime to an extension at such a reasonable price, then he's never going to finish whatever "rebuilding" you're referring to.

 

[Hodge]

If Mike Grier cannot sign his 2nd best player in his prime to an extension at such a reasonable price, then he's never going to finish whatever "rebuilding" you're referring to.

A rebuild is when you lock players up into their mid thirties on big money contracts. Thanks Doug.

 

[OrrNumber4]

If Mike Grier cannot sign his 2nd best player in his prime to an extension at such a reasonable price, then he's never going to finish whatever "rebuilding" you're referring to.

Signing Meier, at whatever price, only made sense if the team was competing.

 

[WTFetus]

Don't see how that contract is a steal. Seems fair on both sides, and I'm glad the Sharks weren't the ones giving it to him.

 

[NWSharkie]

Timo's getting an 8x8.5M

if that's all it would've taken, then Mike Grier's tenure is looking to be a real short one.

If that's all it would've taken, Timo would be wearing teal next year. Maybe Grier's come-to-Jesus talk didn't have the force of Fitzgerald's, or maybe getting two of those talks convinced Lemieux there wasn't a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, but 40-goal Timo wasn't thinking about taking less than his QO until about a week and a half ago.

 

[Levie]

If Mike Grier cannot sign his 2nd best player in his prime to an extension at such a reasonable price, then he's never going to finish whatever "rebuilding" you're referring to.

Grier realized for at minimum 4 years of Meier's contract they won't be competing for anything but draft position. Why exactly would we want Meier for 8.5m the latter 4 years? I haven't liked all Grier's move but I can't see a single argument against trading Meier that makes any sense.

 

[Bizz]

Grier realized for at minimum 4 years of Meier's contract they won't be competing for anything but draft position. Why exactly would we want Meier for 8.5m the latter 4 years? I haven't liked all Grier's move but I can't see a single argument against trading Meier that makes any sense.

4 years is 4 years too long. If a GM isn't gunning for a Cup every single year, then he isn't fit for the job.

 

[Levie]

4 years is 4 years too long. If a GM isn't gunning for a Cup every single year, then he isn't fit for the job.

There's no reasonable move that Grier can make this year that would allow the Sharks to sniff the playoffs this year let alone be a Stanley cup contender.

 

[Bizz]

There's no reasonable move that Grier can make this year that would allow the Sharks to sniff the playoffs this year let alone be a Stanley cup contender.

Kelly McCrimmon's moves were seen as unreasonable at the time, now he has a Cup to call his own.

 

[TheBeard]

Kelly McCrimmon's moves were seen as unreasonable at the time, now he has a Cup to call his own.

Kelly didn't have a choice at a certain point with no prospects or picks.