Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[gaucholoco3]

Would you still buy a $2 lottery ticket when you can trade that in for $100?

That’s the argument that is happening. Yes $100 doesn’t drastically change a person’s life but it is still worth a lot more than the expected value of the $2 lottery ticket. Could you will the million dollars, possibly but not likely but the $100 has value now.

Also in this case there is the chance that the $100 (Kunin) can turn into a million dollars. I would say he has a higher chance of being a core top 6 player than any 3rd round pick we draft. He was playing on a crap team adjusting to a new city/system and then got hurt. I think he is a player they need to complement the small skill players.

 

[STL Shark]

Kunin also isn’t a C was the other issue. I also don’t think Kunin has first round potential.

I think a bit of it now too is seeing a guy like Gibson or Akey who are projected to be there early 3rd and saying I want one. It’s not even about Kunin either because I was advocating taking a chance on Kunin. Now I was saying for Labanc or Gregor or a 5th. To me though it just doesn’t make sense to give up a top 100 pick for a guy that you can get in FA.

It's a Sharks 3rd round pick. Why do we care what we got in return for it when the franchise has produced all of 1 NHL player in its entire existence from a 3rd round pick (Greiss).

 

[landshark]

Kunin also isn’t a C was the other issue. I also don’t think Kunin has first round potential.

I think a bit of it now too is seeing a guy like Gibson or Akey who are projected to be there early 3rd and saying I want one. It’s not even about Kunin either because I was advocating taking a chance on Kunin. Now I was saying for Labanc or Gregor or a 5th. To me though it just doesn’t make sense to give up a top 100 pick for a guy that you can get in FA.

Lot of hindsight tho. You admittedly wanted to take a chance on Kunin at the time.

Sharks got him; he sucked, was injured and now you'd rather have the pick back or one of the other options that was available and also panned out better than Kunin.

When will you understand that the only time things go right for the Sharks is so they get far enough in the playoffs to get our hopes up so that it's a bigger fall from the peak to the chok?

 

[Gecklund]

Lot of hindsight tho. You admittedly wanted to take a chance on Kunin at the time.

Sharks got him; he sucked, was injured and now you'd rather have the pick back or one of the other options that was available and also panned out better than Kunin.

When will you understand that the only time things go right for the Sharks is so they get far enough in the playoffs to get our hopes up so that it's a bigger fall from the peak to the chok?

I mean I did dislike the price they paid at the time. Obviously gotta toot my own horn there

No but I do think my thinking here is very hindsight skewed for sure and it’s very flawed in that way. I’m very much hoping we don’t make a similar move. I will say I did very much like the Kaut and Peterson moves (another two guys that I liked and advocated for!) It is entirely just at the time and even now it felt like Grier spent a buy high price on a buy low target and sacrificed a pick when it’s clear that Kunin wouldn’t make a difference one way or the other.

 

[landshark]

I mean I did dislike the price they paid at the time. Obviously gotta toot my own horn there

No but I do think my thinking here is very hindsight skewed for sure and it’s very flawed in that way. I’m very much hoping we don’t make a similar move. I will say I did very much like the Kaut and Peterson moves (another two guys that I liked and advocated for!) It is entirely just at the time and even now it felt like Grier spent a buy high price on a buy low target and sacrificed a pick when it’s clear that Kunin wouldn’t make a difference one way or the other.

toot toot!
beep beep!

That's totally fair, inflation is a bitch.


GMMG rolled the dice on Kunin and maybe crapped out on that one. I can kinda see what he saw potential-wise.

I really want the Sharks to become a player dev power house. Getting the most out of mediocre players means getting that 3rd for a guy that in hindsight will only be worth a 5th if it was all done over again.

 

[themelkman]

man you really don't like Grier

I hold nothing against him personally I just think it was a nepotism hire and I haven’t seen enough to change my mind from that yet

 

[landshark]

I hold nothing against him personally I just think it was a nepotism hire and I haven’t seen enough to change my mind from that yet

Who is he related to in the Sharks?

 

[themelkman]

For me the Kunin trade isn’t the main problem but just a symptom of the problem that is getting guys based on connections and traits instead of scouting and data.

Who is he related to in the Sharks?

Nepotism doesn’t mean you have to be related to someone. Friends, coworkers, college teammates all count for that

 

[landshark]

For me the Kunin trade isn’t the main problem but just a symptom of the problem that is getting guys based on connections and traits instead of scouting and data.


Nepotism doesn’t mean you have to be related to someone. Friends, coworkers, college teammates all count for that

Oh wow. TIL. I've only ever used that as family. I thought non-family was just "favoritism" Thx!

EDIT:

Seems like there's some room for interpretation.

 

[themelkman]

Oh wow. TIL. I've only ever used that as family. I thought non-family was just "favoritism" Thx!

EDIT: View attachment 720065

Seems like there's some room for

I am no English major so I definitely could be wrong but I’ve always thought it was for any kind of connections

 

[STL Shark]

Nepotism doesn’t mean you have to be related to someone. Friends, coworkers, college teammates all count for that

Even then, does playing 3/14 of his career in SJ when neither the current owner nor President were involved with the team even count as anything remotely close to any of that? It's not like we went and hired Marleau for GM because he spent basically his entire adult life with the organization.

 

[landshark]

I am no English major so I definitely could be wrong but I’ve always thought it was for any kind of connections

I see both definitions. It likely used to mean family, but got dragged into meaning favoritism regardless of familial affiliation.

 

[Hodge]

For me the Kunin trade isn’t the main problem but just a symptom of the problem that is getting guys based on connections and traits instead of scouting and data.


Nepotism doesn’t mean you have to be related to someone. Friends, coworkers, college teammates all count for that

What connections did Grier have to Kunin before the trade? And isn’t identifying a player’s traits the point of scouting and data?

 

[Barrie22]

I hold nothing against him personally I just think it was a nepotism hire and I haven’t seen enough to change my mind from that yet

Good luck finding a GM, coach or anything without any sort of nepotism by your definition. Hockey is such small group of people in this world, hence why there is so many retreads for positions.

 

[Alaskanice]

Some people will say the sky is blue and need to blame someone.

 

[landshark]

Some people will say the sky is blue and need to blame someone.

The sky is teal. Prove me wrong.

 

[Alaskanice]

The sky is teal. Prove me wrong.

I’ll agree with that. Nothing to disprove.

 

[TheBeard]

The fact the some here are using the Kunin trade as some sort of barometer for Grier with all the positive moves he’s made here is laughable.

 

[pappaf2]

Unbelievable there is 2 pages of Kunin chat happening.

 

[landshark]

Unbelievable there is 2 pages of Kunin chat happening.

1 week until the draft. I think peeps are just sick of talking about Michy versus Fresh Prince.

 

[themelkman]

Unbelievable there is 2 pages of Kunin chat happening.

The real tragedy is spending more than a single message talking about him.

Wonder who the next Kunin will be for us to spend a year on

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

The fact the some here are using the Kunin trade as some sort of barometer for Grier with all the positive moves he’s made here is laughable.

I'm truly neither hot or cold on Grier, but I haven't seen a single positive move from him so far, other than getting Burns out of here for his sake (certainly not the return). I've seen him make a lot of necessary moves, but I don't believe any of them can be called positive. He missed on every single FA signing regardless of what his motive was other than Sturm, and has been on the losing end of every somewhat significant trade he has made. I think he treaded water fine in his first year but how he does this offseason with Karlsson + other moves will allow him to be fairly judged. I think Karlsson should just be the start and that he really needs to move some of Ferraro/Vlasic/Labanc etc. or find another out because going into another season with all of this dead weight is not the sign of a great GM.

 

[TheBeard]

I'm truly neither hot or cold on Grier, but I haven't seen a single positive move from him so far, other than getting Burns out of here for his sake (certainly not the return). I've seen him make a lot of necessary moves, but I don't believe any of them can be called positive. He missed on every single FA signing regardless of what his motive was other than Sturm, and has been on the losing end of every somewhat significant trade he has made. I think he treaded water fine in his first year but how he does this offseason with Karlsson + other moves will allow him to be fairly judged. I think Karlsson should just be the start and that he really needs to move some of Ferraro/Vlasic/Labanc etc. or find another out because going into another season with all of this dead weight is not the sign of a great GM.

How about Thrun? The Macdonald-Kaut-Nieto trade? Peterson for Reedy? Turning waiver wire Eyissimont into a 4th round pick? Getting a 4th for Megna?

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

How about Thrun? The Macdonald-Kaut-Nieto trade? Peterson for Reedy? Turning waiver wire Eyissimont into a 4th round pick? Getting a 4th for Megna?

You named a bunch of non-significant depth moves that could be positive for the future. Remember how we thought Ferraro was going to be good after his first year? That could be Thrun. Thrun and Peterson definitely have the potential to be positive pieces, the Nieto trade was insignificant, and 4th round picks mean nothing, and I actually got a chuckle out of reading those two. I'd still rather have Eyissimont than a 4th.

 

[TheBeard]

You named a bunch of non-significant depth moves that could be positive for the future. Remember how we thought Ferraro was going to be good after his first year? That could be Thrun. Thrun and Peterson definitely have the potential to be positive pieces, the Nieto trade was insignificant, and 4th round picks mean nothing, and I actually got a chuckle out of reading those two. I'd still rather have Eyissimont than a 4th.

From what I’m getting from your answers, you wanted Grier to just say “f*** it” and try and get all the all-stars available and win it all.