Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[Gecklund]

I could see Grier trading a future 2nd for Trent Frederic which will be widely panned but could end up being a solid move. He will probably try to sign a top six winger to “replace” Timo but I’m not sure which one would agree to sign with SJ on a 2 or 3 year deal.

Not sold on the Karlsson trade happening. Now that Edmonton is out of the running there doesn’t seem to be an obvious fit.

Random specific prediction: Grier signs Joey Daccord to back up Kahkonen. Massachusetts guy who’s about to win a Calder Cup with the Kraken affiliate and will be a relatively young UFA.

I’d be okay on a Frederic trade but I wonder if we can sell Boston on a prospect instead of a 2nd or if we can get him back in a cap dump trade.

Some wingers that I’d be open to giving a try (if we go that route which I’m not convinced) Brown, Smith, Gurianov, Patches, Comtois. I’d also be totally fine resigning Johnsson. Reason why I’m not convinced though is I think Eklund gets that spot.

Eklund-Hertl-aaa
bbb-Couture-Barabanov

Guys to try in either spot could be Labanc, Kaut, Peterson, Gushchin, Kunin. It’s not good but it stops us from overpaying mediocre guys again.

 

[Jargon]

I'm sure the Habs would be furious picking Leo Carlsson.

why you ruin my joke

 

[Jargon]

I’d be okay on a Frederic trade but I wonder if we can sell Boston on a prospect instead of a 2nd or if we can get him back in a cap dump trade.

Some wingers that I’d be open to giving a try (if we go that route which I’m not convinced) Brown, Smith, Gurianov, Patches, Comtois. I’d also be totally fine resigning Johnsson. Reason why I’m not convinced though is I think Eklund gets that spot.

Eklund-Hertl-aaa
bbb-Couture-Barabanov

Guys to try in either spot could be Labanc, Kaut, Peterson, Gushchin, Kunin. It’s not good but it stops us from overpaying mediocre guys again.

In a perfect world, our third line is Petersen - Sturm - Kaut/Labanc/UFA

And those slots on the 1st and 2nd lines are filled with actual top 6 players. If we did that, our team might actually be sort of competitive, especially if the D is fixed up too.

I think ultimately the question for me is; will Karlsson be traded? If the trade doesn’t materialize because there isn’t enough interest, it’s worth, at least for Erik’s sake, to see if you could actually grab some good wingers and at least another top 4 defenseman. If he’s gone, keep the team as is and go for Celebrini.

 

[Gecklund]

In a perfect world, our third line is Petersen - Sturm - Kaut/Labanc/UFA

And those slots on the 1st and 2nd lines are filled with actual top 6 players. If we did that, our team might actually be sort of competitive, especially if the D is fixed up too.

I think ultimately the question for me is; will Karlsson be traded? If the trade doesn’t materialize because there isn’t enough interest, it’s worth, at least for Erik’s sake, to see if you could actually grab some good wingers and at least another top 4 defenseman. If he’s gone, keep the team as is and go for Celebrini.

I don’t think there’s any possible way to fix the D. We literally have one defenseman that should be over bottom pair and he’s rumored on the block.

 

[themelkman]

I don’t think there’s any possible way to fix the D. We literally have one defenseman that should be over bottom pair and he’s rumored on the block.

Yeah the D fix has to come from drafting and developing. Only very smart teams can trade for or sign better than bottom pair D man for reasonable prices

 

[Cas]

I don’t think there’s any possible way to fix the D. We literally have one defenseman that should be over bottom pair and he’s rumored on the block.

There's also no way he repeats this season, even if he stays.

 

[Jargon]

I don’t think there’s any possible way to fix the D. We literally have one defenseman that should be over bottom pair and he’s rumored on the block.

Therein lies the problem, yeah. I mean, look, it’s so horrific now that trading for or signing a half decent top 4 defenseman (Grzelcek or however you spell that name) will already be a huge improvement. Thrun - Karlsson / Ferraro/Khnyzov-Grzelcek / Vlasic - Benning is at least a marginally better look.

 

[STL Shark]

Posted it in the draft thread, but since it involved roster players figured it would be discussed here too. The Athletic mock that came out yesterday had PIT trading Granlund and 14th overall to DET for 31st overall (acquired moving into the 5th spot in an earlier deal with MTL after SJ took Smith). It then had PIT trading 31st overall to SJ for Barabanov.

Makes me think that if PIT basically did a 3 way trade to move Granlund's cap hit to DET and move down (a pick they swapped straight up for Barabanov in this mock), they could easily cut out the middle man and trade Barabanov for Granlund and 14th overall. Sure, Granlund has 2 years at $5M left and was bad in PIT, but we aren't exactly hurting for cap space (regardless of any EK65 deal) and he either plays well enough to flip at next TDL or helps the tank. Get a Top 15 pick to accelerate the rebuild and also an NHL player to play with the young forwards coming through as a mentor or confidence booster. If it's on the table, Grier should be blowing up Dubas' phone.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Posted it in the draft thread, but since it involved roster players figured it would be discussed here too. The Athletic mock that came out yesterday had PIT trading Granlund and 14th overall to DET for 31st overall (acquired moving into the 5th spot in an earlier deal with MTL after SJ took Smith). It then had PIT trading 31st overall to SJ for Barabanov.

Makes me think that if PIT basically did a 3 way trade to move Granlund's cap hit to DET and move down (a pick they swapped straight up for Barabanov in this mock), they could easily cut out the middle man and trade Barabanov for Granlund and 14th overall. Sure, Granlund has 2 years at $5M left and was bad in PIT, but we aren't exactly hurting for cap space (regardless of any EK65 deal) and he either plays well enough to flip at next TDL or helps the tank. Get a Top 15 pick to accelerate the rebuild and also an NHL player to play with the young forwards coming through as a mentor or confidence booster. If it's on the table, Grier should be blowing up Dubas' phone.

I definitely think Grier should be all over this. It’s basically a top 15 pick for swapping from Barabonov to Granlund. I get that Barabonov is better but that doesn’t really matter to the Sharks. It’s almost like a free top 15 pick especially because Granlund could probably fetch at least a 3rd during the 25 trade deadline.

 

[Gecklund]

Therein lies the problem, yeah. I mean, look, it’s so horrific now that trading for or signing a half decent top 4 defenseman (Grzelcek or however you spell that name) will already be a huge improvement. Thrun - Karlsson / Ferraro/Khnyzov-Grzelcek / Vlasic - Benning is at least a marginally better look.

You’re definitely right that a guy like Grzelcyk would be an improvement. That D is still god awful though and relying on too many thing to go right. Then you add in that our goalies are close to league worst. We still are letting in too many goals and not scoring enough.

 

[STL Shark]

I definitely think Grier should be all over this. It’s basically a top 15 pick for swapping from Barabonov to Granlund. I get that Barabonov is better but that doesn’t really matter to the Sharks. It’s almost like a free top 15 pick especially because Granlund could probably fetch at least a 3rd during the 25 trade deadline.

Precisely. He just fetched a 2nd this TDL, but played poorly for PIT after that. I'd even add Gregor, Lorentz, or any of the other cheap depth forwards that would help PIT round out their bottom 6. Given the high praise Crosby piled onto Barabanov when they visited SJ this past season, I've had them circled as a likely suitor for awhile.

 

[LadyStanley]

One of the podcasts I listened to yesterday (11 hours in car) suggested the the Panthers were interested in EK65. Wonder if there might be a deal there.

 

[Hodge]

One of the podcasts I listened to yesterday (11 hours in car) suggested the the Panthers were interested in EK65. Wonder if there might be a deal there.

Would you guys do this trade?

To FLA
Erik Karlsson ($4M/year retained)

To SJ
2023 2nd round pick
Mackie Samoskevich
Brandon Montour (UFA in 2024)

I know the Sharks balked at this level of retention but I think the Panthers would need it in order to fit EK under the cap. Zito wasn’t willing to pay Huberdeau or Weegar so I doubt he’s willing to go 7-8 years on an extension for 29 year old Montour. We could either flip Montour immediately or give him Karlsson’s role/minutes and try to drum up a bidding war at the deadline. He should be worth at least a 1st.

 

[Erep]

Would you guys do this trade?

To FLA
Erik Karlsson ($4M/year retained)

To SJ
2023 2nd round pick
Mackie Samoskevich
Brandon Montour (UFA in 2024)

I know the Sharks balked at this level of retention but I think the Panthers would need it in order to fit EK under the cap. Zito wasn’t willing to pay Huberdeau or Weegar so I doubt he’s willing to go 7-8 years on an extension for 29 year old Montour. We could either flip Montour immediately or give him Karlsson’s role/minutes and try to drum up a bidding war at the deadline. He should be worth at least a 1st.

I think on a lower retention, that return is fine, but if you are willing to go that high, you can probably do better. Just compare Karlsson at 7.5x4 to the Severson contract and Orlov ask, and it seems like it should be much more.

(Obviously Florida cap space is tricky, so you may need to go elsewhere for less retention, and they don't have much more to give, so more payment for the retention is tricky, too.)

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Would you guys do this trade?

To FLA
Erik Karlsson ($4M/year retained)

To SJ
2023 2nd round pick
Mackie Samoskevich
Brandon Montour (UFA in 2024)

I know the Sharks balked at this level of retention but I think the Panthers would need it in order to fit EK under the cap. Zito wasn’t willing to pay Huberdeau or Weegar so I doubt he’s willing to go 7-8 years on an extension for 29 year old Montour. We could either flip Montour immediately or give him Karlsson’s role/minutes and try to drum up a bidding war at the deadline. He should be worth at least a 1st.

This would depend on what you believe Montour's worth is in a flip or deadline rental. Montour is one of those guys that just had a career year that was about twice his normal output. I think he's worth a 1st now and I'd probably flip him immediately rather than waiting for the deadline given how bad our team looks going into next season. Also, I think it might be a good idea to have Florida add Duclair into this deal since they're likely going to need to get rid of him to ice a roster after such a trade so we can get a little more for the heavy retention.

 

[STL Shark]

Would you guys do this trade?

To FLA
Erik Karlsson ($4M/year retained)

To SJ
2023 2nd round pick
Mackie Samoskevich
Brandon Montour (UFA in 2024)

I know the Sharks balked at this level of retention but I think the Panthers would need it in order to fit EK under the cap. Zito wasn’t willing to pay Huberdeau or Weegar so I doubt he’s willing to go 7-8 years on an extension for 29 year old Montour. We could either flip Montour immediately or give him Karlsson’s role/minutes and try to drum up a bidding war at the deadline. He should be worth at least a 1st.

Sharks would need it to be a three team deal and potentially also have Luostarinen included. SJ carries all of the risk if Montour gets hurt and can't be flipped for TDL assets. Better to launder Montour through to someone like Dallas for their 1st rounder.

To SJ - 2024 DAL 1st, 2023 FLA 2nd, Luostarinen, Faksa
To FLA - Karlsson ($3.5M retained), DAL 5th
To DAL - Montour, SJ 7th

 

[Hodge]

Sharks would need it to be a three team deal and potentially also have Luostarinen included. SJ carries all of the risk if Montour gets hurt and can't be flipped for TDL assets. Better to launder Montour through to someone like Dallas for their 1st rounder.

To SJ - 2024 DAL 1st, 2023 FLA 2nd, Luostarinen, Faksa
To FLA - Karlsson ($3.5M retained), DAL 5th
To DAL - Montour, SJ 7th

That works. I love Luostarinen. Would still want Samoskevich too though.

 

[STL Shark]

That works. I love Luostarinen. Would still want Samoskevich too though.

Tossed back and forth including him as well. Seemed too rich for FLA though. Would guess that Dallas would have to toss us a prospect for taking Faksa as a cap dump though. So find a semi-equivalent from Dallas for Samoskevich and he probably would be part of the deal for taking Faksa (say Christian Kyrou or Mavrik Bourque - prefer Kyrou).

 

[TheBeard]

Florida’s issues with poor defensive responsibilities wouldn’t exactly be solved with the inclusion of Karlsson.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Florida’s issues with poor defensive responsibilities wouldn’t exactly be solved with the inclusion of Karlsson.

But it's also not made worse by swapping Montour for Karlsson.

 

[TheBeard]

But it's also not made worse by swapping Montour for Karlsson.

I just don’t see it from a florida standpoint. Having Bob and Erik on the same team seems like suicide. If either resorts back to their previous ways (suck or injury prone) then the team is screwed.

 

[Hodge]

I just don’t see it from a florida standpoint. Having Bob and Erik on the same team seems like suicide. If either resorts back to their previous ways (suck or injury prone) then the team is screwed.

All I know is Zito won’t stand pat, there are no good free agents available and the Panthers are likely shut out of the high end trade market due to a lack of assets. Karlsson is easily the best player they can realistically acquire this offseason and while the 4 year term is a risk, depending on retention it’s less risky than extending Montour for 6-8 seasons after this one.

 

[TheBeard]

All I know is Zito won’t stand pat, there are no good free agents available and the Panthers are likely shut out of the high end trade market due to a lack of assets. Karlsson is easily the best player they can realistically acquire this offseason and while the 4 year term is a risk, depending on retention it’s less risky than extending Montour for 6-8 seasons after this one.

I don’t know what the panthers need to do, but imo getting older isn’t it. I can see Tarasenko being a fit though.

 

[Hodge]

I don’t know what the panthers need to do, but imo getting older isn’t it. I can see Tarasenko being a fit though.

All their core players are in their prime. They just need to keep adding as much talent as possible, regardless of age, without screwing up their long term cap situation (hence no max term deals for Huberdeau, Weegar or Montour).

 

[TheBeard]

All their core players are in their prime. They just need to keep adding as much talent as possible, regardless of age, without screwing up their long term cap situation (hence no max term deals for Huberdeau, Weegar or Montour).

Frankly I don’t know if they can afford to do anything until they know what their goaltending is like next year. Bob returning to previous form is bad, Spencer Knight may not return and who knows what Alex Lyon is.