Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[hohosaregood]

Ferraro is basically only still on the team because 1. he showed promise in his first year, 2. he's a leader, and 3. this defense is awful

modern day kris russell

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

Unless it’s a first or multiple seconds, keep Ferraro.

He’s younger and can relate to the kids that will be coming up more than the older guys.

Having him around to teach the kids work ethic and hustle is also a good thing.

 

[Gecklund]

Unless it’s a first or multiple seconds, keep Ferraro.

He’s younger and can relate to the kids that will be coming up more than the older guys.

Having him around to teach the kids work ethic and hustle is also a good thing.

I mean I don’t know if I want him teaching the young kids “hustle.” His balls to the wall play has cost this team more times than it’s helped.

I do wonder if Sharks will use the Lundkvist trade as a comparable for him though. They aren’t similar at all but Ferraro has more NHL games even if they aren’t good.

 

[Mafoofoo]

I feel like Ferraro has a lot of value to teams because coaches absolutely love guys who play with the hustle and effort he plays with.

 

[hohosaregood]

I feel like Ferraro has a lot of value to teams because coaches absolutely love guys who play with the hustle and effort he plays with.

I strongly believe he'd be a stud in a Sutter-esque system.

 

[Lebanezer]

 

[themelkman]

Kind of expected. Good chance to be an NHLer but not a high ceiling

 

[Jargon]

Kind of expected. Good chance to be an NHLer but not a high ceiling

Ceiling seems to be 2C. If he reaches that we should be thrilled.

 

[Wedontneedroads]

Mario is a beast

Not a bad example to set for young kids. Maybe the most fit Sharks player ever.

 

[Jargon]

Mario is a beast

Not a bad example to set for young kids. Maybe the most fit Sharks player ever.

The thing is, I love the guy. I think he’s a great person in the room, I think he’s a leader, etc. But playing with Burns broke him. I’m willing to give him the chance to find his game again as this team grows and gets better together, but I’m also at a point where, yeah, I’d easily take a 1st round pick for him.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

The thing is, I love the guy. I think he’s a great person in the room, I think he’s a leader, etc. But playing with Burns broke him. I’m willing to give him the chance to find his game again as this team grows and gets better together, but I’m also at a point where, yeah, I’d easily take a 1st round pick for him.

Okay, given where the team is and where they are headed I’d definitely take a first for Ferraro. That said, I think some are wildly undervaluing his play and vastly overestimating how easy he’d be to replace from within our system.

To suggest that he isn’t an NHL player is laughable. Likewise, to suggest he could be replaced by Thrun “today” is similarly hyperbolic.

A few things to note: Ferraro is still only 24. He’s still in the age range that most young dmen are still putting their game together. He’s only ever been on bad Shark teams and the only “good” dman he’s every spent considerable time playing with is Burns. I believe his motor and shot blocking commitment are valuable and rare traits - and some of the other aspects of his defensive game can still be improved at this stage of his career (though, I’d not expect to see significant growth in his offensive game).

Lastly, this team is so bad. They’ll likely continue to be bad, if not worse, in the coming season(s). That does and will take a toll on the team psyche. I imagine there is some value in having leaders in the locker room who still find a way to make showing up everyday something to enjoy. I’m not in the room, so I can’t comment with certainty - but I don’t get the impression that Couture is that type of leader. Hertl somewhat. I get the impression Bonino was one of those guys. I also suspect Mario is definitely one of those guys.

Short of getting an unexpected haul for Ferraro - and with none of the prospects, as of this moment, knocking on the door to take his place - I don’t see any reason to move Ferraro. Let’s see if he can add to his game and let’s have the young prospects prove they can outperform him in camp or in the AHL before we just anoint them as mainstays on the Sharks.

 

[NWSharkie]

The thing is, I love the guy. I think he’s a great person in the room, I think he’s a leader, etc. But playing with Burns broke him. I’m willing to give him the chance to find his game again as this team grows and gets better together, but I’m also at a point where, yeah, I’d easily take a 1st round pick for him.

I think the idea that one defensive partner "broke" his game is a little silly. The sense I get from watching Mario is that he plays like he's under the gun and the last man back. Yeah, part of that is from playing with Burns all last year where he *was* under the gun and the last man back more often than not, but some of that is lacking the poise that comes from experience and letting the game slow down. If the coaching staff can work with him to take a breath and read his options before acting, he'll look a lot better next year.

 

[one2gamble]

I think the idea that one defensive partner "broke" his game is a little silly. The sense I get from watching Mario is that he plays like he's under the gun and the last man back. Yeah, part of that is from playing with Burns all last year where he *was* under the gun and the last man back more often than not, but some of that is lacking the poise that comes from experience and letting the game slow down. If the coaching staff can work with him to take a breath and read his options before acting, he'll look a lot better next year.

Yep, his play style is just weird. It makes me wonder how much the staff is actually working to correct it because I would have expected to see it change by now.

 

[Jargon]

Okay, given where the team is and where they are headed I’d definitely take a first for Ferraro. That said, I think some are wildly undervaluing his play and vastly overestimating how easy he’d be to replace from within our system.

To suggest that he isn’t an NHL player is laughable. Likewise, to suggest he could be replaced by Thrun “today” is similarly hyperbolic.

A few things to note: Ferraro is still only 24. He’s still in the age range that most young dmen are still putting their game together. He’s only ever been on bad Shark teams and the only “good” dman he’s every spent considerable time playing with is Burns. I believe his motor and shot blocking commitment are valuable and rare traits - and some of the other aspects of his defensive game can still be improved at this stage of his career (though, I’d not expect to see significant growth in his offensive game).

Lastly, this team is so bad. They’ll likely continue to be bad, if not worse, in the coming season(s). That does and will take a toll on the team psyche. I imagine there is some value in having leaders in the locker room who still find a way to make showing up everyday something to enjoy. I’m not in the room, so I can’t comment with certainty - but I don’t get the impression that Couture is that type of leader. Hertl somewhat. I get the impression Bonino was one of those guys. I also suspect Mario is definitely one of those guys.

Short of getting an unexpected haul for Ferraro - and with none of the prospects, as of this moment, knocking on the door to take his place - I don’t see any reason to move Ferraro. Let’s see if he can add to his game and let’s have the young prospects prove they can outperform him in camp or in the AHL before we just anoint them as mainstays on the Sharks.

I definitely agree with all of this, particularly the psyche part.

I kinda feel like Hertl turned a corner the last few games - his post interviews feel really grounded and like he’s sort of accepted his role. He seems less depressed.

 

[OffSydes]

Ferraro is 6′ 0″ and even though he is from Toronto he looks like a Ginny from the North End and went to school close to Boston. He is not getting traded.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Okay, given where the team is and where they are headed I’d definitely take a first for Ferraro. That said, I think some are wildly undervaluing his play and vastly overestimating how easy he’d be to replace from within our system.

To suggest that he isn’t an NHL player is laughable. Likewise, to suggest he could be replaced by Thrun “today” is similarly hyperbolic.

A few things to note: Ferraro is still only 24. He’s still in the age range that most young dmen are still putting their game together. He’s only ever been on bad Shark teams and the only “good” dman he’s every spent considerable time playing with is Burns. I believe his motor and shot blocking commitment are valuable and rare traits - and some of the other aspects of his defensive game can still be improved at this stage of his career (though, I’d not expect to see significant growth in his offensive game).

Lastly, this team is so bad. They’ll likely continue to be bad, if not worse, in the coming season(s). That does and will take a toll on the team psyche. I imagine there is some value in having leaders in the locker room who still find a way to make showing up everyday something to enjoy. I’m not in the room, so I can’t comment with certainty - but I don’t get the impression that Couture is that type of leader. Hertl somewhat. I get the impression Bonino was one of those guys. I also suspect Mario is definitely one of those guys.

Short of getting an unexpected haul for Ferraro - and with none of the prospects, as of this moment, knocking on the door to take his place - I don’t see any reason to move Ferraro. Let’s see if he can add to his game and let’s have the young prospects prove they can outperform him in camp or in the AHL before we just anoint them as mainstays on the Sharks.

I don't think it's really that hard to replace Ferraro. The things that he is good at are things guys tend to get popular doing with blocking shots and taking one for the team. Ferraro is good at killing penalties and blocking shots. Do the Sharks have something like that internally? Probably not. Do they have something that would probably be better for them in the long run? Yeah, I think they do with Thrun and Muk. There's just more skill there than with what Ferraro does. While I tend to agree with the age and putting their games together and all that, it also tends to come with flashes of greater play that just isn't in Ferraro's game. This is who he is and for a rebuilding team to get out from that state, they will need defensemen with a more well-rounded game that Ferraro simply won't be able to produce.

I'd much rather take a 2nd round pick, shed the 3.25 mil in cap dollars, and open the lineup spot for Thrun and/or Muk to win and see them grow...especially if we land on Bedard because they're going to need the sort of turnover on the blue line that allows them to compete relatively quickly (within the three years of Bedard's ELC). If they land Bedard, the Sharks should be doing everything in their power to make it where Vlasic-Benning is their 3rd pairing...not their 2nd and Ferraro simply isn't an answer to filling that 2nd pairing LHD because he isn't well-rounded enough.

Nobody should look at Ferraro like he's good enough because he isn't. He's a likeable guy but outside of his rookie season, he hasn't shown to be all that good. We simply never had other options.

 

[hohosaregood]

Yep, his play style is just weird. It makes me wonder how much the staff is actually working to correct it because I would have expected to see it change by now.

I don't think he's fast enough to play the way he wants to play. I think that's a big one. He's gonna have to change quite a few aspects of his game and just simplify things if he wants to be successful.

 

[Eggdoh]

I don't think it's really that hard to replace Ferraro. The things that he is good at are things guys tend to get popular doing with blocking shots and taking one for the team. Ferraro is good at killing penalties and blocking shots. Do the Sharks have something like that internally? Probably not. Do they have something that would probably be better for them in the long run? Yeah, I think they do with Thrun and Muk. There's just more skill there than with what Ferraro does. While I tend to agree with the age and putting their games together and all that, it also tends to come with flashes of greater play that just isn't in Ferraro's game. This is who he is and for a rebuilding team to get out from that state, they will need defensemen with a more well-rounded game that Ferraro simply won't be able to produce.

I'd much rather take a 2nd round pick, shed the 3.25 mil in cap dollars, and open the lineup spot for Thrun and/or Muk to win and see them grow...especially if we land on Bedard because they're going to need the sort of turnover on the blue line that allows them to compete relatively quickly (within the three years of Bedard's ELC). If they land Bedard, the Sharks should be doing everything in their power to make it where Vlasic-Benning is their 3rd pairing...not their 2nd and Ferraro simply isn't an answer to filling that 2nd pairing LHD because he isn't well-rounded enough.

Nobody should look at Ferraro like he's good enough because he isn't. He's a likeable guy but outside of his rookie season, he hasn't shown to be all that good. We simply never had other options.

Do we need to get rid of Ferraro to open a spot for Thrun (who may be ready soon) or Mukh (who will almost certainly not be ready for at least another full year, or more likely 2 or 3)? We hardly have a surplus of NHL-worthy defensive talent.

 

[Cas]

Do we need to get rid of Ferraro to open a spot for Thrun (who may be ready soon) or Mukh (who will almost certainly not be ready for at least another full year, or more likely 2 or 3)? We hardly have a surplus of NHL-worthy defensive talent.

Knyzhov - Karlsson
Vlasic - Benning
Ferraro - MacDonald
Thrun

I don't know if Thrun can play the right side, but Ferraro and Vlasic both can. I have Simek on IR next year, and even if not we can always waive MacDonald (he's just another filler defenseman, nothing to get excited about). It's still garbage, but that's going to be true regardless unless multiple prospects hit their projected ceiling immediately.

That leaves the Barracuda with Mukhamadullin, Cicek, Okhotiuk, and Knyazev.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Do we need to get rid of Ferraro to open a spot for Thrun (who may be ready soon) or Mukh (who will almost certainly not be ready for at least another full year, or more likely 2 or 3)? We hardly have a surplus of NHL-worthy defensive talent.

Need is relative so it depends on your prioritizations for this team. Do they need to move Ferraro for them specifically? Probably not but it's a likely benefit. I think they need to move Ferraro because if he's worth a 2nd round pick or better, he's one of the few players capable of netting the Sharks that sort of return. Off this team, we have all maybes in terms of who can pull a draft pick like that. Ferraro is a maybe. Karlsson is a maybe. Couture is a maybe. Barabanov is a maybe. All have reasons they may not get moved or may not have that value. I believe they need more picks in the 1st and 2nd rounds moving forward to put more in the future around their upcoming 1st round pick who is almost certainly the guy this management is going to be building their team around.

 

[Gecklund]

Okay, given where the team is and where they are headed I’d definitely take a first for Ferraro. That said, I think some are wildly undervaluing his play and vastly overestimating how easy he’d be to replace from within our system.

To suggest that he isn’t an NHL player is laughable. Likewise, to suggest he could be replaced by Thrun “today” is similarly hyperbolic.

A few things to note: Ferraro is still only 24. He’s still in the age range that most young dmen are still putting their game together. He’s only ever been on bad Shark teams and the only “good” dman he’s every spent considerable time playing with is Burns. I believe his motor and shot blocking commitment are valuable and rare traits - and some of the other aspects of his defensive game can still be improved at this stage of his career (though, I’d not expect to see significant growth in his offensive game).

Lastly, this team is so bad. They’ll likely continue to be bad, if not worse, in the coming season(s). That does and will take a toll on the team psyche. I imagine there is some value in having leaders in the locker room who still find a way to make showing up everyday something to enjoy. I’m not in the room, so I can’t comment with certainty - but I don’t get the impression that Couture is that type of leader. Hertl somewhat. I get the impression Bonino was one of those guys. I also suspect Mario is definitely one of those guys.

Short of getting an unexpected haul for Ferraro - and with none of the prospects, as of this moment, knocking on the door to take his place - I don’t see any reason to move Ferraro. Let’s see if he can add to his game and let’s have the young prospects prove they can outperform him in camp or in the AHL before we just anoint them as mainstays on the Sharks.

You are VASTLY overrating Ferraro who has a negative corsi every year. Dude is bad. He is not an NHL level player. You can’t even use the off-side argument for him as he’s only played 25% of his shifts on the right. His QoC numbers are bad. He plays against third and fourth lines for the most part and gets CAVED. If he was so good as some of you claim, it doesn’t matter if his partner is anymore than an average 3rd pairing D. He should still win these matchups.

His “motor” is WHY he’s so bad. He is constantly out of position. He is constantly putting himself out of position. He needs a dman to baby sit him defensively like Karlsson does but doesn’t provide a shred of the offense that Karlsson does.

You’re right some of these guys might not be better than him but there isn’t really a way for them to be worse.

 

[Sharksrule04]

Okay, given where the team is and where they are headed I’d definitely take a first for Ferraro. That said, I think some are wildly undervaluing his play and vastly overestimating how easy he’d be to replace from within our system.

To suggest that he isn’t an NHL player is laughable. Likewise, to suggest he could be replaced by Thrun “today” is similarly hyperbolic.

A few things to note: Ferraro is still only 24. He’s still in the age range that most young dmen are still putting their game together. He’s only ever been on bad Shark teams and the only “good” dman he’s every spent considerable time playing with is Burns. I believe his motor and shot blocking commitment are valuable and rare traits - and some of the other aspects of his defensive game can still be improved at this stage of his career (though, I’d not expect to see significant growth in his offensive game).

Lastly, this team is so bad. They’ll likely continue to be bad, if not worse, in the coming season(s). That does and will take a toll on the team psyche. I imagine there is some value in having leaders in the locker room who still find a way to make showing up everyday something to enjoy. I’m not in the room, so I can’t comment with certainty - but I don’t get the impression that Couture is that type of leader. Hertl somewhat. I get the impression Bonino was one of those guys. I also suspect Mario is definitely one of those guys.

Short of getting an unexpected haul for Ferraro - and with none of the prospects, as of this moment, knocking on the door to take his place - I don’t see any reason to move Ferraro. Let’s see if he can add to his game and let’s have the young prospects prove they can outperform him in camp or in the AHL before we just anoint them as mainstays on the Sharks.

100% this. People suggesting to trade him for a 3rd are confused. There is a reason NHL teams made "legitimate offers" for him, and no a 3rd round pick isn't a legitimate offer. When teams are as bad as this Sharks team, it tends to bring everyone down. Would I trade him for a first round pick? Sure. We aren't just dumping him for a 3rd rounder or even a single 2nd rounder though.

 

[Sharksrule04]

Do we need to get rid of Ferraro to open a spot for Thrun (who may be ready soon) or Mukh (who will almost certainly not be ready for at least another full year, or more likely 2 or 3)? We hardly have a surplus of NHL-worthy defensive talent.

Have people looked at our Defense? It's a joke. We don't need to "make space" for Thrun or Mukh. If they are good enough they should easily earn a spot. Karlsson, Ferraro and unfortunately Vlasic because of his contract are the only players that stay in the lineup. The rest are either expendable or can be pushed down by an overperforming young d-man.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Have people looked at our Defense? It's a joke. We don't need to "make space" for Thrun or Mukh. If they are good enough they should easily earn a spot. Karlsson, Ferraro and unfortunately Vlasic because of his contract are the only players that stay in the lineup. The rest are either expendable or can be pushed down by an overperforming young d-man.

Yeah but there are only so many spots and nobody is expiring so you kind of have to make room by moving pieces out. Sure, we could just send down MacDonald for the roster spot and move Ferraro to his offside to make room for Thrun to play but if Ferraro is capable of netting you a 2nd round pick when this team is almost certainly going to be building around their top pick this year, I'd think it's in their best interest to try and get another pick as three picks in the top two rounds for the next two drafts probably isn't enough. If we're not moving Karlsson because we end up with Bedard, we can't move Hertl, we probably can't move Couture for plenty of different potential reasons, and Barabanov maybe isn't worth a 2nd yet, where else are we going to add picks from now that Meier is gone? It's possible that Ferraro has 2nd round pick trade value or better and he's more easily available due to RFA status so why wouldn't we when he's contributing to the problem heavily of making the blue line a joke?

 

[WTFetus]

Yeah but there are only so many spots and nobody is expiring so you kind of have to make room by moving pieces out. Sure, we could just send down MacDonald for the roster spot and move Ferraro to his offside to make room for Thrun to play but if Ferraro is capable of netting you a 2nd round pick when this team is almost certainly going to be building around their top pick this year, I'd think it's in their best interest to try and get another pick as three picks in the top two rounds for the next two drafts probably isn't enough. If we're not moving Karlsson because we end up with Bedard, we can't move Hertl, we probably can't move Couture for plenty of different potential reasons, and Barabanov maybe isn't worth a 2nd yet, where else are we going to add picks from now that Meier is gone? It's possible that Ferraro has 2nd round pick trade value or better and he's more easily available due to RFA status so why wouldn't we when he's contributing to the problem heavily of making the blue line a joke?

I get that, but at the same time, Ferraro is only 24. If you could get a 1st for him, sure. But the chances of a 2nd or 3rd round pick, even in a deep draft, to even become an NHLer is pretty slim. We'd be lucky if it turned out to be a 6D. Now if Ferraro improves to even just a stable #5/#6 defenseman, he's still young enough as a defenseman to fit into the long term plan of building around Bedard/Fantilli/Carlsson/etc.

With Muk, Havelid, Thrun, etc, you're still missing that #1D (I don't consider Karlsson to fit into the competing window) which keeping Ferraro wouldn't hinder, nor would trading Ferraro net you it. So I have no qualms of keeping him as a third pair with hopes he can still turn it around given his age. I'd honestly rather keep him than get a lottery ticket 2nd or 3rd round pick.