Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[Harbessix]

That proposed deal probably equals something like a late first and three seconds. Does that really seem like enough for Meier to you?

The Debrincat deal was 7th overall, 39th overall and a third.

I dont think we could trade the entirety of that package for 7th overall.

I dont like Holtz, but its hard to argue his value isnt atleast a mid first. If we dont get atleast him this deal is a failure and a bad one.

Considering what Meier is right now, I think it’s somewhat inevitable we’ll lose the trade on paper and be underwhelmed with the return based on our expectations. I just get annoyed with the fire Grier comments and the Grier hate in general. The guy’s been GM for 7 months. Let’s give him some time to execute his vision.

 

[themelkman]

Considering what Meier is right now, I think it’s somewhat inevitable we’ll lose the trade on paper and be underwhelmed with the return based on our expectations. I just get annoyed with the fire Grier comments and the Grier hate in general. The guy’s been GM for 7 months. Let’s give him some time to execute his vision.

If he had given me a reason to be positive I would be. That could change here, but I think DW was given a long rope for too long for a "vision" and I dont want to see the same problems haunt us in five years because we couldnt call a bad trade a bad trade.

 

[jarr92]

How do we know? His job is to identify things that will hold significant value to the team, in this case for a long rebuild.

If he cant even get a single top 50 rated prospect for one of the leagues best wingers, I would believe hes not doing the job well and placing value on the wrong things.

Were talking about 2 teams (NJ and CAR) who are seemingly in the main running for Meier. Obviously Grier would prefer to get a Nemec, Hughes, Jarvis, Mercer, Nikishin vs a lesser prospect, but its up to those teams to offer those players up. If Meier doesn't fetch one of those players it doesn't mean Grier did a bad job or didn't value those players, it means those players were too valued for their teams to give up.

Let's see what the actual trade looks like. If it's actually terrible I'll agree with you. I'm guessing it's taking so long because Grier is asking for a lot.

 

[themelkman]

Were talking about 2 teams (NJ and CAR) who are seemingly in the main running for Meier. Obviously Grier would prefer to get a Nemec, Hughes, Jarvis, Mercer, Nikishin vs a lesser prospect, but its up to those teams to offer those players up. If Meier doesn't fetch one of those players it doesn't mean Grier did a bad job or didnt value those players, it means those players were too value for their teams to give up.

Let's see what the actual trade looks like. If it's actually terrible I'll agree with you. I'm guessing it's taking so long because Grier is asking for a lot.

Agreed im not making the judgement until it happens. I hope for the best

 

[OrrNumber4]

I think where we'll have to evaluate Grier is on how the picks and prospects he acquires turns out. It's his job to get a relatively unheralded prospect (like Holtz) because his scouts think the player is undervalued. Or, to get draft picks and use those picks judiciously.

And, to be fair, this would apply in reverse. Say he gets Nemec + Hughes for Meier and both completely bust, I'd castigate Grier for not being able to see through the hype.

 

[Jargon]

If it’s Zetterlund, I’d like for us to get at least Holtz with him and that sort of checks what we’ve heard: a 1st, a A/B prospect and a young roster player. That does basically equal to 3 mid-late 1sts and is ultimately not a bad return, depending on how Zetterlund and Holtz develop.

 

[spintops]

I think where we'll have to evaluate Grier is on how the picks and prospects he acquires turns out. It's his job to get a relatively unheralded prospect (like Holtz) because his scouts think the player is undervalued. Or, to get draft picks and use those picks judiciously.

And, to be fair, this would apply in reverse. Say he gets Nemec + Hughes for Meier and both completely bust, I'd castigate Grier for not being able to see through the hype.

I sorta agree with some of this, while disagreeing at the same time. You still have to get value. If he trades Timo for a 6th rounder and drafts a franchise 1C with that pick, it was still a terrible deal. Get some underrated prospects and high value assets

 

[OrrNumber4]

I sorta agree with some of this, while disagreeing at the same time. You still have to get value. If he trades Timo for a 6th rounder and drafts a franchise 1C with that pick, it was still a terrible deal. Get some underrated prospects and high value assets

Yeah, fair enough. I suppose it's a combination of the two things.

 

[Gecklund]

Article basically says that Vegas doesn’t have the pieces.

 

[Sharksrule04]

We don’t have to trade Timo! Accepting a crap return would be a dumb move by Grier. I really don’t understand the people who think fans should be happy if we get a mediocre return for a player of Meier‘s caliber. If teams aren’t willing to trade a top prospect for a 35-40 goal scorer in his prime then tell them, to F off. We aren’t in the business of helping other teams, get adequate return for your assets.

Getting say Holtz, Makhumadullin and a first should be the conversation starter for a franchise like the devils with endless assets. If they won‘t give up at least that, then trade Timo to their rival or just keep the 26 year old 40 goal star. Accepting the trash return that was suggested a few posts back absolutely would deserve criticism.

 

[LadyStanley]

Carolina may be falling out of Meier race. Teams pressuring for answer. Fabbro mention too.

 

[mogambomoroo]

We don’t have to trade Timo! Accepting a crap return would be a dumb move by Grier. I really don’t understand the people who think fans should be happy if we get a mediocre return for a player of Meier‘s caliber. If teams aren’t willing to trade a top prospect for a 35-40 goal scorer in his prime then tell them, to F off. We aren’t in the business of helping other teams, get adequate return for your assets.

Getting say Holtz, Makhumadullin and a first should be the conversation starter for a franchise like the devils with endless assets. If they won‘t give up at least that, then trade Timo to their rival or just keep the 26 year old 40 goal star. Accepting the trash return that was suggested a few posts back absolutely would deserve criticism.

Agree with this 100%

Other team is getting a young elite power forward, so they should be giving a big asset to make it happen.
I didn't even take to account that they very probably getting an extension with that deal too (which should make that trade value even higher than it was)

 

[Mafoofoo]

I’m fully expecting the Timo trade to be terrible

 

[Le Rosbeef]

Jarvis + Morrow + 2023 1st is my guess on a Carolina offer.

If that is on the table and Grier hasn't accepted it, I'd be shocked. That's a fantastic offer.

 

[Patty Ice]

Do you think teams would offer signifcantly more if someone else were in charge? Grier is obviously going to take the best deal he can get. He seems to be doing all he can to extract value out of Meier.

But does he need to deal him if that's all that is being offered? If someone offers you 3 quarters and a nickel for a dollar, you tell them to kick rocks.

 

[STL Shark]

I do find the Mercer vs Zetterlund conjecture to be quite funny. Mercer is the shiny toy to a lot of you now because he's on a scoring heater next to Hischier whereas if you take the last 5-6 games when he got promoted up to that line out his scoring is the exact same as Zetterlund on the season. But reading the comments, one is a 21 year old star and the other may as well be Mike Brown.

He's not a centerpiece by any means if he's in the deal, but he's a player with a skillset that we don't have and is still young. Probably holds ~2nd round valuation if he were to be traded merely for picks.

 

[spintops]

You don't give Timo away, but you have to trade him IMO.

-getting him off the roster helps push towards landing a new core franchise player. Him playing well enough on the roster that we miss out on one of the top guys would make this season another wasted tank year.
-he will probably be a negative value contract by the team we are competing. We are a bad team, we can't keep signing these ageing contracts to 8 year deals.

 

[Jwec]

If the return is Holtz + 1st + Zetterlund I'm somewhat disappointed. 1st round pick is always nice, Zetterlund is young roster player and I think he can be a top 6 minute player as a third wheel of the top 6 line and Holtz has potential to be a top 6 goal scorer and at least has been a top prospect.

The problem to me is that Zetterlund is due for a new contract and if GMMG overpays, then it it makes Zetterlund a piece that does not have much of value and I feel that Holtz is not going to reach his potential. So I would think value wise Holtz + 1st + Zetterlund would not be that bad but I would rather have different prospect than Holtz and maybe player who would have contract left after this summer or not due for a payday. And regarding Devils prospects, I do not like Mukhamadullin either.

If MG would get Mercer or Nemec, that would be great. But my preference would be to trade Timo to Carolina as Nemec or Mercer probably is not happening and Carolina might be tempted to trade for Meier even with the cost of Jarvis. And even if they wont include Jarvis, package having Morrow, 1st and Drury would be better than Holtz, Zetterlund and 1st. As I feel Morrow seems to be on a good track to reach his potential compared to Holtz and Drury could be great 3rd line center for years to come.

 

[Celly4Celebrini]

down to Devils and STL?

 

[spintops]

down to Devils and STL?

Still hear things about Vegas but I have no idea how they afford him, especially with the rival premium added

 

[STL Shark]

down to Devils and STL?

STL is already out. NJD and Vegas (or mystery team).

Still hear things about Vegas but I have no idea how they afford him, especially with the rival premium added

Agree. No prospects to speak of really in terms of quality. Guess if we literally just got their entire draft pick board for the next 2 drafts then maybe there's something there. Just hope Grier and Fitz being "college" guys doesn't lead to some overhype of Brisson for riding in the trunk on a loaded Michigan team when he's not actually good.

 

[STL Shark]

If the return is Holtz + 1st + Zetterlund I'm somewhat disappointed. 1st round pick is always nice, Zetterlund is young roster player and I think he can be a top 6 minute player as a third wheel of the top 6 line and Holtz has potential to be a top 6 goal scorer and at least has been a top prospect.

The problem to me is that Zetterlund is due for a new contract and if GMMG overpays, then it it makes Zetterlund a piece that does not have much of value and I feel that Holtz is not going to reach his potential. So I would think value wise Holtz + 1st + Zetterlund would not be that bad but I would rather have different prospect than Holtz and maybe player who would have contract left after this summer or not due for a payday. And regarding Devils prospects, I do not like Mukhamadullin either.

If MG would get Mercer or Nemec, that would be great. But my preference would be to trade Timo to Carolina as Nemec or Mercer probably is not happening and Carolina might be tempted to trade for Meier even with the cost of Jarvis. And even if they wont include Jarvis, package having Morrow, 1st and Drury would be better than Holtz, Zetterlund and 1st. As I feel Morrow seems to be on a good track to reach his potential compared to Holtz and Drury could be great 3rd line center for years to come.

I have to think that with Grier eliminating Carolina and STL that Nemec is on the table. We also have the rumors about Grier wanting a young goalie as well. Schmid would fit that very well and likely be the best odds of a starting goalie for the future. We still don't have any realistic hopes of that anywhere in the system (Gaudreau has been terrible this year statistically for Sarnia).

 

[Alaskanice]

So, conventional wisdom (ha) would say that booting Carolina is because their offer wasn’t good enough? I know it’s all speculation but I’m wondering why decide this?

 

[spintops]

Waiting for Buffalo to swoop in as a mystery team with a huge offer

 

[Patty Ice]

We don’t have to trade Timo! Accepting a crap return would be a dumb move by Grier. I really don’t understand the people who think fans should be happy if we get a mediocre return for a player of Meier‘s caliber. If teams aren’t willing to trade a top prospect for a 35-40 goal scorer in his prime then tell them, to F off. We aren’t in the business of helping other teams, get adequate return for your assets.

Getting say Holtz, Makhumadullin and a first should be the conversation starter for a franchise like the devils with endless assets. If they won‘t give up at least that, then trade Timo to their rival or just keep the 26 year old 40 goal star. Accepting the trash return that was suggested a few posts back absolutely would deserve criticism.

I do find the Mercer vs Zetterlund conjecture to be quite funny. Mercer is the shiny toy to a lot of you now because he's on a scoring heater next to Hischier whereas if you take the last 5-6 games when he got promoted up to that line out his scoring is the exact same as Zetterlund on the season. But reading the comments, one is a 21 year old star and the other may as well be Mike Brown.

He's not a centerpiece by any means if he's in the deal, but he's a player with a skillset that we don't have and is still young. Probably holds ~2nd round valuation if he were to be traded merely for picks.

Good stuff. I'm glad when I saw the report that Grier was targeting him. He is a good piece to sweeten a deal.