Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[Friday]

Lol we're getting spare parts and the 30th overall pick

 

[jarr92]

For the love of god, stop talking about Nemec and Hughes. It’s not happening.

What that piece of information means is that NJ isn’t stepping up and making an offer that Grier likes. They’re low-balling and won’t step up their offer unless someone else makes a better one. Very bad sign IMO.

Not saying it's likely to happen, but theoretically Grier could do Meier+ for an A+ prospect if any were actually available.

Also if I'm Grier I'm fine with waiting until after the draft lottery to trade Meier. I feel like that increases the likelihood of a mid-tier team making an offer with a decent 1st round pick attached.

 

[CupfortheSharks]

For the love of god, stop talking about Nemec and Hughes. It’s not happening.

What that piece of information means is that NJ isn’t stepping up and making an offer that Grier likes. They’re low-balling and won’t step up their offer unless someone else makes a better one. Very bad sign IMO.

This doesn’t make sense because New Jersey will never REALLY know if someone has made a better offer. Like I posted on the main boards: All this means is that NJ hasn’t made their best offer yet.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Not saying it's likely to happen, but theoretically Grier could do Meier+ for an A+ prospect if any were actually available.

Also if I'm Grier I'm fine with waiting until after the draft lottery to trade Meier. I feel like that increases the likelihood of a mid-tier team making an offer with a decent 1st round pick attached.

Because of the value of those prospects, the + would have to be pretty substantial to add even to Meier to make that happen. As for waiting, I disagree. I think waiting only increases the leverage of potential suitors because they'll know the deal with the QO and don't have the push for a playoff run against them so they can afford to be patient on Meier because they'll know that the Sharks either have to move him or pay him the 10 mil and wait for next deadline to move him.

 

[themelkman]

Listening to the DFO rundown and Seravelli still says the sharks are getting way less than Debrincat. Of course he doesnt specify what that means in terms of assets.

Also he seems to get very angry talking about Meier. Gregor suggested getting a late first, second and a third wasnt worth trading Meier for and he got very upset and said its the only option because of the market.

 

[timorous me]

Listening to the DFO rundown and Seravelli still says the sharks are getting way less than Debrincat. Of course he doesnt specify what that means in terms of assets.

Also he seems to get very angry talking about Meier. Gregor suggested getting a late first, second and a third wasnt worth trading Meier for and he got very upset and said its the only option because of the market.

Weird attitude. Sharks not feeding him information anymore? Anyway, a trade like that would be shit and I'd maybe say to not do it just on principle.

 

[Kcoyote3]

Weird attitude. Sharks not feeding him information anymore? Anyway, a trade like that would be shit and I'd maybe say to not do it just on principle.

He put out a super early report a few months back claiming the trade return would be bad. I think he's doubling down to assure people he's not wrong. He has sources, I just think the info may be out of date or wrong given the other info saying it'll be higher. Time will tell.

 

[themelkman]

He put out a super early report a few months back claiming the trade return would be bad. I think he's doubling down to assure people he's not wrong. He has sources, I just think the info may be out of date or wrong given the other info saying it'll be higher. Time will tell.

Also worth remembering hes not a draft or prospect guy. Technically a 10th overall pick + Prospect this year would be less than Ottawa paid, but that doesnt account for differences in the draft

 

[Hisch13r]

He put out a super early report a few months back claiming the trade return would be bad. I think he's doubling down to assure people he's not wrong. He has sources, I just think the info may be out of date or wrong given the other info saying it'll be higher. Time will tell.

IIRC Elliotte also said it's likely less than Debrincat but that was months ago so who knows how things have changed since then. It was funny how hard Frank was pushing for the Rangers and Meier but then I believe it was LeBrun who just came out and said the Rangers were never really in on Meier. I mean what a shocker that they weren't going to pay the price it'd cost for Meier when they wouldn't have been able to keep.

 

[Jargon]

For the love of god, stop talking about Nemec and Hughes. It’s not happening.

What that piece of information means is that NJ isn’t stepping up and making an offer that Grier likes. They’re low-balling and won’t step up their offer unless someone else makes a better one. Very bad sign IMO.

I don’t know, I think it’s hard to say what kind of sign it is. Could be that Grier really is asking for something very high - 1st and Mercer, let’s say, for conversation sake. They keep countering with Holtz and a 1st. They can’t find a middle ground but they’ve been at it for a while and Grier has been getting more calls.

Okay, dudes, I’m going to go talk to these other teams then, this isn’t working for us.

Okay — but before you trade him, come back to us and maybe we can match your offer.

That, or even something as simple as they have done basic trade idea in place but Grier says he can’t commit til he does his due diligence and NJ says okay but please don’t just run off and trade him - let us try and counter if you get a better offer.

Neither option is a bad one for the Sharks. If anything, I think the Devils really, really don’t want to lose on him so the hope is that another team does up the ante and they panic and give up a bigger piece than they want.

 

[Sysreq]

You are never going to get a core piece in a rental like this. Meier will add some aggregate value via picks and auxiliary pieces, but the idea that we will get a piece equal to Meier but younger and cheaper just doesn’t make sense. These are always quantity for quality trades. You won’t get 9OA and you won’t get a surefire prospect.

Look at the return Ottawa got on Karlsson for example. At the time no one expected the Sharks to bottom out the following year, and figured that first was going to be garbage. Otherwise in was seen as bottom-6 center, bottom-pair defenseman, meh prospect plus 2 late first equivalents. A whole bunch of nothing (had that not turned into a lotto pick) for a generational defenseman. Meier is gonna get less.

 

[Juxtaposer]

This doesn’t make sense because New Jersey will never REALLY know if someone has made a better offer. Like I posted on the main boards: All this means is that NJ hasn’t made their best offer yet.

That’s the point, is that the Devils want the Sharks to tell them if they get a better offer than the Devils’ current offer. So yes, they will know if someone has made a better offer, unless Grier goes back on his word.

 

[Gecklund]

That’s the point, is that the Devils want the Sharks to tell them if they get a better offer than the Devils’ current offer. So yes, they will know if someone has made a better offer, unless Grier goes back on his word.

Which really wouldn’t make sense. Either NJ beats it or you leave with the original offers. There’s no reason to not tell other teams the offer.

 

[Jargon]

Which really wouldn’t make sense. Either NJ beats it or you leave with the original offers. There’s no reason to not tell other teams the offer.

I really think it’s as simple as Grier thinking the NJ offer is fine and telling them he’s still holding discussions with other teams and them saying okay, well, don’t just go off and trade him if you get an offer you like more, give us a chance at countering!

I think it’s good, in that I think probably there’s a NJ offer that Grier is at least interested in and I think it’s also good because it means Grier is working the markets for all they’re worth.

Now I just hope somebody panics and goes all in.

 

[DG93]

Meier is a 26-year-old 1st line winger with three 30 goal seasons in 6 seasons, elite possession numbers, and solid defense. I get that Luke Hughes is a pipe dream, but I wouldn't settle for a mediocre package just to trade Meier for the sake of trading him either. If an extension in place gets them the blue chip piece, that should be arranged if possible. If Meier is going to NJ on a 8yr/72M extension, is a 1 for 1 Nemec for Meier trade really that unreasonable when you're trading a 1st line winger in his prime for a prospect who projects as a top pairing defenseman?

 

[Mafoofoo]

For the love of god, stop talking about Nemec and Hughes. It’s not happening.

What that piece of information means is that NJ isn’t stepping up and making an offer that Grier likes. They’re low-balling and won’t step up their offer unless someone else makes a better one. Very bad sign IMO.

My thoughts exactly.

I’m not sure what the Devils are thinking like we are obligated to give them a chance to counter.

Send your best offer and if someone like Buffalo offers something better you go for it. You don’t go “wow amazing offer this is exactly what we are looking for. Hang on lemme call and check in with New Jersey”

 

[themelkman]

My thoughts exactly.

I’m not sure what the Devils are thinking like we are obligated to give them a chance to counter.

Send your best offer and if someone like Buffalo offers something better you go for it. You don’t go “wow amazing offer this is exactly what we are looking for. Hang on lemme call and check in with New Jersey”

Yeah thats pretty dumb. Why would I owe you first right of refusal when you are low balling

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Meier is a 26-year-old 1st line winger with three 30 goal seasons in 6 seasons, elite possession numbers, and solid defense. I get that Luke Hughes is a pipe dream, but I wouldn't settle for a mediocre package just to trade Meier for the sake of trading him either. If an extension in place gets them the blue chip piece, that should be arranged if possible. If Meier is going to NJ on a 8yr/72M extension, is a 1 for 1 Nemec for Meier trade really that unreasonable when you're trading a 1st line winger in his prime for a prospect who projects as a top pairing defenseman?

Yes it's unreasonable because they don't have that kind of leverage over New Jersey to get them to fork Nemec over. Only way that happens is if they can be convinced that another team is offering something similar which league trends say is not in the cards because those prospects don't get moved.

 

[sharski]

Interesting here is Friedman said the Devils asked Grier to give them a final shot no matter what the deal with another team is.

Basically confirms they will remain an option until the end

For the love of god, stop talking about Nemec and Hughes. It’s not happening.

What that piece of information means is that NJ isn’t stepping up and making an offer that Grier likes. They’re low-balling and won’t step up their offer unless someone else makes a better one. Very bad sign IMO.

This doesn’t make sense because New Jersey will never REALLY know if someone has made a better offer. Like I posted on the main boards: All this means is that NJ hasn’t made their best offer yet.

My thoughts exactly.

I’m not sure what the Devils are thinking like we are obligated to give them a chance to counter.

Send your best offer and if someone like Buffalo offers something better you go for it. You don’t go “wow amazing offer this is exactly what we are looking for. Hang on lemme call and check in with New Jersey”

Yeah thats pretty dumb. Why would I owe you first right of refusal when you are low balling

If NJ really asked that, I hope GMMG established dominance and told them to go f*** themselves

 

[CupfortheSharks]

If NJ really asked that, I hope GMMG established dominance and told them to go f*** themselves

No need. You just use it. Wait a bit and tell them you have a better offer whenever you like the timing. They are obviously willing to do more. It’s an easy way to get them to up their offer without having to make a counter offer. Remember the value of any offer is based on the Sharks internal valuation of each prospect. They can deem that they like any offer better and nobody will ever know the difference.

 

[timorous me]

Let's not forget that the Devils' GM is the brother of the Sharks' scouting director (and an old buddy of Grier's, right?), so it's likely the "circle back to us" thing from the Devils is just sort of a friendly agreement at play between guys.

Fine with me as long as it doesn't lead to the Sharks taking a worse deal.

 

[DG93]

Yes it's unreasonable because they don't have that kind of leverage over New Jersey to get them to fork Nemec over. Only way that happens is if they can be convinced that another team is offering something similar which league trends say is not in the cards because those prospects don't get moved.

Fair enough

 

[Juxtaposer]

My thoughts exactly.

I’m not sure what the Devils are thinking like we are obligated to give them a chance to counter.

Send your best offer and if someone like Buffalo offers something better you go for it. You don’t go “wow amazing offer this is exactly what we are looking for. Hang on lemme call and check in with New Jersey”

Exactly. Very bizarre situation.

 

[Jargon]

My thoughts exactly.

I’m not sure what the Devils are thinking like we are obligated to give them a chance to counter.

Send your best offer and if someone like Buffalo offers something better you go for it. You don’t go “wow amazing offer this is exactly what we are looking for. Hang on lemme call and check in with New Jersey”

Unless Grier is like I want Nemec, and they’re like, take Holtz, we can’t offer better and he’s like, I’m gonna go talk to Carolina — and they’re like, okay but check in with us before you say yea to them, we’d still like a chance to beat their offer.

Then it’s up to Grier how he wants to play it. I mean it certainly puts NJ in a weird, desperate place where they’re essentially saying, okay if you force us, we’ll do better.

 

[SJsharks]

Let me preface this by saying, I obviously don’t know and we all have thoughts on what this could mean. No one knows if an official offer was even made from NJ at this point. All of this talk about it being some awful sign seems like it could be a bit overplayed. For all we know they’ve exchanged ideas but nothing official has been offered and NJ is saying, “hey, we’re really interested so if someone puts together an offer sooner don’t accept it before we send you ours”.

Either way, it sounds like we’ll be finding out soon. Here’s to hoping it’s a return that can give us legit pieces to build with.