2022/23 Roster Thread XVII: The Days are Getting Longer

[Striiker]

The losing streak is coming. It’s inevitable.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Shame this team is winning, they are a losing streak away from real fireworks

Seems like it’s still there regardless according to ASF. Dave Scott straddling the line in regards to Fletcher’s future is creating non-existent operating structure within the front office. You essentially have your front office split in two factions. One that is in favor of Fletcher currently & going forward & another that is not. Being in the middle with uncertainty is not a solution but it sounds like Scott in true Flyer fashion is just waiting for the decision to make it self.

 

[Striiker]

“Win now”

*spends a ton of money*
*makes the team much much much worse*
*steals paychecks while doing the opposite of what he was hired to do*

“Hmm… I think maybe we keep him around? I dunno.”

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The team giving directions on who to praise and how is the least surprising revelation.

To be fair he said that was the only time in his experience working here a GM had a meeting with them over it. He said Homer never did it. He said Hextall was trying to get them to tame the expectations on the young players. Therien said he actually agreed with it as it’s not fair to anybody to place such high expectations on players without those results.

He said teams obviously work with their broadcasting teams & advise on what to say & what not to say but he said he never had a GM actually sit with them & tell them that directly. Usually it’s a channel of communication.

 

[Magua]

Seems like it’s still there regardless according to ASF. Dave Scott straddling the line in regards to Fletcher’s future is creating non-existent operating structure within the front office. You essentially have your front office split in two factions. One that is in favor of Fletcher currently & going forward & another that is not. Being in the middle with uncertainty is not a solution but it sounds like Scott in true Flyer fashion is just waiting for the decision to make it self.

It begs the question: who is NOT in favor of Fletcher in the front office? Lombardi, Clarke, Holmgren -- no way they're not in his corner with his moves and handling of the team, especially given they hired him to "collaborate." Most of the front office underlings are cronies appointed by these guys. Is it the cleaning staff? The stats intern/coffee run guy? Gritty?

 

[Flyerfan4life]

The team giving directions on who to praise and how is the least surprising revelation.

remember when people said stuff like this didnt happen and we were just being negative..

lol..

#Flyerstypical

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

It begs the question: who is NOT in favor of Fletcher in the front office? Lombardi, Clarke, Holmgren -- no way they're not in his corner with his moves and handling of the team, especially given they hired him to "collaborate." Most of the front office underlings are cronies appointed by these guys. Is it the cleaning staff? The stats intern/coffee run guy? Gritty?

I don’t know. He mentioned Clarke specifically by name before as someone who’s fighting for Fletcher to keep his job. Otherwise he’s blanketed it by saying advisors typically.

But yeah the other group he hasn’t exactly given any clues to who exactly these people are. I don’t think he’s necessarily talking about them in this sense but he has alluded to the business side making a case that Fletcher likely has to go if they went to try & improve ticket sales next year. But I don’t think that’s who he’s necessarily referencing. I guess they could smaller figures within the front office especially compared to the advisors. He’s painted a picture that these people are trying to get Fletcher out of there so just given that nature that might also be why there isn’t really any clues as to who they are.

He said on the same recent podcast that Tortorella has gained more influence within the organization to this point. He said his one source within the organization at the beginning of the year told him to stop saying things like Tortorella is gonna come in there & tell them how to do their jobs. He said that same source now tell him that he’s actually more in agreement with Tortorella than not.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I think there’s a better than 50-50 chance I would agree with Tortorella more than Clarke/Fletcher/Flahr. I don't want coaches wielding a ton of influence, but for right now, it might be the less bad road.

Everything that comes out only makes me more sure Clarke has to be completely removed. Not just out of favor. Out on his ass.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

 

[Appleyard]

 

[Striiker]

Hextall picks.

 

[Devonator]

Any word if Couts is going to be playing this season? Thanks.

 

[deadhead]

I think there’s a better than 50-50 chance I would agree with Tortorella more than Clarke/Fletcher/Flahr. I don't want coaches wielding a ton of influence, but for right now, it might be the less bad road.

Everything that comes out only makes me more sure Clarke has to be completely removed. Not just out of favor. Out on his ass.

Tortorella is an outsider with a proven track record of winning by developing young players.

Now what would recommend the current echo chamber over that?

Yeah, someone like AV or even Lavi having that kind of power is dangerous b/c they have a history of going with veterans b/c they want to win now, but even Lavi in Washington has managed to coach up players. But the current FO wants to win by buying veterans b/c they don't have the patience to stick with kids.

Tortorella may actually suffer from the opposite fault, he's too focused on coaching and too transparent to effectively play office politics - but in this case we need him to use his leverage to encourage house cleaning. Because he'll be the only one who isn't fooled by his own success.

Any word if Couts is going to be playing this season? Thanks.

Word was he was expected back by April, he's already skating.
I'd like to see him get on the ice, it would be good both to gauge his progress and for him to get some confidence in the back before next fall - if he gets re-injured, at least they know to write him off instead of breaking down in November.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Tortorella is an outsider with a proven track record of winning by developing young players.

Now what would recommend the current echo chamber over that?

Yeah, someone like AV or even Lavi having that kind of power is dangerous b/c they have a history of going with veterans b/c they want to win now, but even Lavi in Washington has managed to coach up players. But the current FO wants to win by buying veterans b/c they don't have the patience to stick with kids.

Tortorella may actually suffer from the opposite fault, he's too focused on coaching and too transparent to effectively play office politics - but in this case we need him to use his leverage to encourage house cleaning. Because he'll be the only one who isn't fooled by his own success.


Word was he was expected back by April, he's already skating.
I'd like to see him get on the ice, it would be good both to gauge his progress and for him to get some confidence in the back before next fall - if he gets re-injured, at least they know to write him off instead of breaking down in November.

You keep making that claim about Lavi and it's never been true.

 

[deadhead]

Which is pretty amazing for Farabee, b/c it's obvious that not being able to work out over the summer, and missing TC really set him back this season. I expect a big season next year when he is a year past surgery and can work out the coming summer and add strength.

You keep making that claim about Lavi and it's never been true.

Lavi won a Cup with a very old team that had a year off due to the lockout and had one great season before age caught up to them.
He's a veteran's HC, he likes "reliable" players.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

John Tortorella won 19 years ago which was pre salary cap. He hasn’t won shit since.

He’s not a winner.

 

[deadhead]

He's become a solid 3rd pair D-man who is very good on the PK.
In other words a solid starter who should make $2.5M a year.

I think his offense will eventually improve as what Shaw is teaching him becomes second nature, but he'll never be worth the assets or the money. At best he may improve to being a 4th D-man whose primary value is on defense, but does just enough on offense.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Which is pretty amazing for Farabee, b/c it's obvious that not being able to work out over the summer, and missing TC really set him back this season. I expect a big season next year when he is a year past surgery and can work out the coming summer and add strength.


Lavi won a Cup with a very old team that had a year off due to the lockout and had one great season before age caught up to them.
He's a veteran's HC, he likes "reliable" players.

I've debunked this more times than I can count at this point. That Carolina team won a Cup on the backs of young players who Lavi trusted and put in prominent usage. Not veterans.

He played whatever young players he was given here, too. Even Nodl, who wasn't reliable at all, got the maximum chance.

You can't just make stuff up.

 

[deadhead]

John Tortorella won 19 years ago which was pre salary cap. He hasn’t won shit since.

He’s not a winner.

Who the F-- is a winner?
Cooper had Hedman, Stamkos, Pointer, et al, is he a winner or just a good coach with a great team?
Is Berube a winner?
Colorado may not make the playoffs this year with McKinnon, Landeskog and Makar, does that mean Bednar is a mediocrity who got lucky?
Boston wins without Cassidy, does that make him a second rate coach?

 

[deadhead]

I've debunked this more times than I can count at this point. That Carolina team won a Cup on the backs of young players who Lavi trusted and put in prominent usage. Not veterans.

He played whatever young players he was given here, too. Even Nodl, who wasn't reliable at all, got the maximum chance.

You can't just make stuff up.

Derbunked what? The only young players who had major roles were Staal and Williams. And Staal was 4 years past his draft year.

Here are the top scoring forwards on that Carolina team.
Staal (21) #2 overall
J Williams (24) #28
Stillman (32)
Brind'Amour (35)
Cole (27)
Whitney (33)
Cullen (29)
K Adams (31)
C Adams (28)
Weight (35)

On Defense, by TOI
Hedican (35)
Kaberle (32)
Ward (33)
Wallin (30)
Tyerdovsky (29)
Commodore (26)
Wesley (37)

Beef, you bullshit b/c you're too lazy to look up the facts.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Who the F-- is a winner?
Cooper had Hedman, Stamkos, Pointer, et al, is he a winner or just a good coach with a great team?
Is Berube a winner?
Colorado may not make the playoffs this year with McKinnon, Landeskog and Makar, does that mean Bednar is a mediocrity who got lucky?
Boston wins without Cassidy, does that make him a second rate coach?

John Tortorella isn’t. I can tell you that much. Twenty plus years as a HC and he’s made it to the 2nd round five times. He’s an old man living off of something that he did almost two decades ago.

You should probably include context regarding Bednar and the Avs this year because they matters. Not to mention Bednar has won in the ECHL, AHL, and NHL so yeah I’m pretty sure he’s a winner.

Cooper coaches circles around someone like Torts. He too won in the AHL.

Bednar has made the second round four times in his six years as an NHL HC. Cooper has made the SCF four times and conference final twice in his ten years.

So yeah, you should probably keep Bednar and Cooper’s names out of your mouth when it comes to saying that Tortorella is a winner.

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

Seems like it’s still there regardless according to ASF. Dave Scott straddling the line in regards to Fletcher’s future is creating non-existent operating structure within the front office. You essentially have your front office split in two factions. One that is in favor of Fletcher currently & going forward & another that is not. Being in the middle with uncertainty is not a solution but it sounds like Scott in true Flyer fashion is just waiting for the decision to make it self.

Dave Scott meeting with Comcast execs

 

[eramosat]

Seems like it’s still there regardless according to ASF. Dave Scott straddling the line in regards to Fletcher’s future is creating non-existent operating structure within the front office. You essentially have your front office split in two factions. One that is in favor of Fletcher currently & going forward & another that is not. Being in the middle with uncertainty is not a solution but it sounds like Scott in true Flyer fashion is just waiting for the decision to make it self.

Scott has a lot of time to let the decision marinade. And no less than Exactly the amount of time it takes for Couts, Ellis and Atkins to return. But not much more than that.

ANyone thAT feels like predicting that can have the Flyers future in their hands. not easy

 

[DancingPanther]

Couturier, Ellis, and Betterfitkinson. Copium cut with hopium

Scott has a lot of time to let the decision marinade.

No he doesn't, the trade deadline is in a month and a half

 

[Beef Invictus]

Derbunked what? The only young players who had major roles were Staal and Williams. And Staal was 4 years past his draft year.

Here are the top scoring forwards on that Carolina team.
Staal (21) #2 overall
J Williams (24) #28
Stillman (32)
Brind'Amour (35)
Cole (27)
Whitney (33)
Cullen (29)
K Adams (31)
C Adams (28)
Weight (35)

On Defense, by TOI
Hedican (35)
Kaberle (32)
Ward (33)
Wallin (30)
Tyerdovsky (29)
Commodore (26)
Wesley (37)

Beef, you bullshit b/c you're too lazy to look up the facts.

You forget Cam Ward? Intriguing omission to leave the Conn Smythe winner out.

Staal, Ward, and Williams carried that team. Staal and Ward especially. Cut your zero-context cherrypicking. Lavi's rep coming into Philly was that he would be a great development coach because of the way he got the most out of youth in Carolina.

Making a list of players and their ages is garbage that does nothing to account for their usage and impact. But you know this. For some reason you've decided to be deliberately misleading about Lavi, probably because you determined it might work as an example to defend Fletcher always going against what you say would be best. Whatever your motivation is, it's nakedly untrue.