2022/23 Roster Thread XVII: The Days are Getting Longer

[dragonoffrost]

That was July, before they even hit TC, before Torts evaluated the team, and before I evaluated Tort's history.
I was working off what we saw last spring, when the games "didn't count."
Nice try.

York looked like dog crap in TC, and Attard showed that his spring showing was a no pressure fluke, he has NHL offensive skills but ECHL defensive fundamentals - he'll be back and eventually will get a shot at the top 4, when he can be trusted on defense.

Zamula has been a disappointment, period. Hogberg I think was dinged earlier, but has been a AHL+ type the last couple seasons.

The surprise is Ginning, after years of him being trashed, he's turned out to be a solid 3rd pair prospect, playing a safe, defense first game, more like L Schenn and Gudas. Guess playing 250 SHL games does help development.

So since time has passed you get to change what you promised?

Nice goalpost move.

 

[flyersnorth]

And it is indeed named for THAT Randy Jones, holy shit. Hometown hero.

Yup. When he played for the Flyers, he used to come back every summer and host some development camps for youth.

 

[iceman42]

No thanks, i'll take the stairs.

Glad I am not there ... normally this is our "escape from the crappy winter" destination ... not this year.

 

[kudymen]

So since time has passed you get to change what you promised?

Nice goalpost move.

Ironic because it’s the same guy capable of ignoring space time continuum in quotes like this: “and trading Voracek proved to be an even smarter move now that we see him probably never playing again”

 

[deadhead]

Does the thought of Fletcher trading Hayes scare you? After the Ghost and Risto trades. Who knows what he’d be willing to give away to make a Hayes deal go down.

I think people under estimate Hayes' value.
At LW he's showing himself to be a top offensive player, he's flashed it before, then injuries derailed him for two years.

His skill set suggests he'll age gracefully, unlike Voracek, he has a plus shot and is actually a better playmaker on the wing where he doesn't hold the puck the way he did at center. And at wing, he's not the liability on defense he was at center after losing a stride to injury - more like JVR - he can hold his own as long as you don't ask him to do too much.

He's scoring 2.10 pp/60, but his secondary assists are only 0.18 and his Sh% 6.19, so he should regress upward.
He was 2.05 last season, 1.96 and 2.28 the two years before he became a Flyer.
So the offense is pretty consistent when healthy. Somewhere between bottom 1st line and top 2nd line forward.

In that context 3x7 isn't out of line, especially with the cap slated to start rising this or next summer.
And if the Flyers retain some money, or take on a bad contract (Lehtera redux), he could have real value.

So since time has passed you get to change what you promised?

Nice goalpost move.

An intelligent (wo)man changes his opinion as new data becomes available.

 

[Curufinwe]

The only data you look at is what the Flyers are currently doing. Whatever it is, you say it's a good move.

 

[kudymen]

An intelligent (wo)man changes his opinion as new data becomes available.

And is capable of admitting (s)he was wrong instead of deflecting via “nononono I did not say this, actually yes maybe but only like not like this really”

 

[Beef Invictus]

That was July, before they even hit TC, before Torts evaluated the team, and before I evaluated Tort's history.
I was working off what we saw last spring, when the games "didn't count."
Nice try.

York looked like dog crap in TC, and Attard showed that his spring showing was a no pressure fluke, he has NHL offensive skills but ECHL defensive fundamentals - he'll be back and eventually will get a shot at the top 4, when he can be trusted on defense.

Zamula has been a disappointment, period. Hogberg I think was dinged earlier, but has been a AHL+ type the last couple seasons.

The surprise is Ginning, after years of him being trashed, he's turned out to be a solid 3rd pair prospect, playing a safe, defense first game, more like L Schenn and Gudas. Guess playing 250 SHL games does help development.

Your work on Torts history that left you concluding he's an offensively minded coach?

 

[Curufinwe]

Why did Zamula get two months on the Flyers if he was such a "disappointment", while roster "lock" York spent those two months on the Phantoms?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Like who you like for whatever reasons, but treating potential 6D, 23yo, D+5 Ginning like a break in case of emergency talking point is A+ shitposting.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

According to Kevin Allen, there is a team that is very interested in Hayes. This leaves me with some questions.

1. Does Cuck have a brother who is also running an NHL team?

2. Is Cuck going to be the first GM in NHL history to make a trade with himself?

3. If a GM really wants Hayes, could he possibly be talked into taking Fisto as well?

4. Is Kevin Allen on drugs?

Of course there are teams interested in Hayes.

He’s a 6’5” all-star center with 45 points in 50 games, in a league where scoring-line centers are rare & valued.

It is projection of irrational hatred to think there’s no interest.

Hell, it wasn’t long ago he garnered a 1st rd. pick as a mere playoff rental.

 

[Striiker]

If Ginning ever steps foot on NHL ice I better never hear that roster decisions are based on merit ever again.

He is not an NHL player, he is not a real prospect. He’s unskilled, brainless, AHL trash, just like Hagg. The only reason anyone thinks he’s good defensively is the standard “big + no offense = good defense” stereotype.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Of course there are teams interested in Hayes.

He’s a 6’5” all-star center with 45 points in 50 games, in a league where scoring-line centers are rare & valued.

It is projection of irrational hatred to think there’s no interest.

Hell, it wasn’t long ago he garnered a 1st rd. pick as a mere playoff rental.

He's an "all-star" "center" who has taken 49 faceoffs in his last 20 games.

 

[Striiker]

He’s also only an Allstar because his brother died.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

He's an "all-star" "center" who has taken 49 faceoffs in his last 20 games.

So you’re point is that Kevin Hayes isn’t a center even though that’s where he’s played the vast majority of his NHL career.

One hell of a point.

 

[BiggE]

So you’re point is that Kevin Hayes isn’t a center even though that’s where he’s played the vast majority of his NHL career.

One hell of a point.

This is his first time being selected as an all star, you know, the season where he’s primarily played on the wing. But yeah, he’s right up there with McDavid, Mathews and MacKinnon.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

And for those bellyaching in advance that the Flyers are going to “add” vets at the deadline, pay attention to Torts:

I think we’ve handled some adversity… (We’ve) found some footing. I think we’ve slowly been consistent in the style of play that I think we want to develop here,” the two-time Jack Adams Award winner said. “Have we gotten where we want to be? No. Do we need to change some players out? Yes. Do we need to add some youth? Yes. Do we need to get rid of veterans? Yes.”

The small steps of progress aren’t changing Tortorella’s long-term vision. He is the only prominent member of the organization who has openly used the word “rebuild” to describe the current situation for the Flyers.

“I don’t think our organization should miss any steps in going through the process of becoming a competitive hockey team in this league. When I say competitive, (I mean) a team that’s fighting for playoffs each and every year. We are not there right now. I do think we’ve improved…It will not change at least my thinking as far as the process we have to go through to become that legitimate team. It’s not a short-term thing here,” he said.

Source: Flyers News & Rumors: Hayes, Tortorella, van Riemsdyk

 

[Ghosts Beer]

This is his first time being selected as an all star, you know, the season where he’s primarily played on the wing. But yeah, he’s right up there with McDavid, Mathews and MacKinnon.

Fine. Remove the words “all-star” if it makes you feel better.

He’s a 6’5” all-star center with 45 points in 50 games, in a league where scoring-line centers are rare & valued.

Changes nothing. He’ll have interest around the league.

 

[Striiker]

A “center” that God-like Elite Coach Torts thinks is a worse center than Cates and Frost.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

24. Nick Seeler
Left Defense, Philadelphia Flyers
Age: 29
Stats: 48 GP, 3 G, 6 A, 9 Pts
Contract: 1 more season, $775,000 AAV
Scoop: Seeler is a human nail gun. He’s tough, physical and has flown under the radar as a late-blooming, late-round pick. The Flyers have raved about Seeler’s competitive drive, ability to make a simple outlet pass and patience with the puck. Flyers GM Chuck Fletcher drafted Seeler in Minnesota and brought him to Philadelphia. Now he may have to part with him as Seeler has some real value on the trade market with one more season remaining at league minimum. He is a similar story to Jacob Middleton, who was in the second-round pick return range last year in San Jose.

JvR is & has been on his trade list for pretty much all year now.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Fine. Remove the words “all-star” if it makes you feel better.

He’s a 6’5” all-star center with 45 points in 50 games, in a league where scoring-line centers are rare & valued.

Changes nothing. He’ll have interest around the league.

He's a guy who can't hack it as a center on a team with the worst center depth in the league. Not an intelligent player on the ice and a poor defensive player. He'll have limited interest around the league, if the Flyers retain between $2m and $3.5m of his contract.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Middleton is almost three years younger than Seeler. So not really sure that’s an apt comparison there. But nonetheless if anybody wants to give you a middle round pick for Seeler you have to do it.

 

[BiggE]

Fine. Remove the words “all-star” if it makes you feel better.

He’s a 6’5” all-star center with 45 points in 50 games, in a league where scoring-line centers are rare & valued.

Changes nothing. He’ll have interest around the league.

No he’s a 6’5 LW putting up points on a mediocre team. He’s also out producing his normal scoring pace and will likely regress to his mean numbers in future seasons. He also often misses defensive coverages, is on the wrong side of 30, is a slow skater and has three more seasons at 7.14 million per.

Interest in Hayes at full price is non existent. Interest in Hayes with significant retention by Philly is likely extremely limited.

Comparing now to when the Rags moved a younger and less expensive Hayes on an expiring deal is just comical.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

No he’s a 6’5 LW putting up points on a mediocre team. He’s also out producing his normal scoring pace and will likely regress to his mean numbers in future seasons. He also often misses defensive coverages, is on the wrong side of 30, is a slow skater and has three more seasons at 7.14 million per.

Interest in Hayes at full price is non existent. Interest in Hayes with significant retention by Philly is likely extremely limited.

Comparing now to when the Rags moved a younger and less expensive Hayes on an expiring deal is just comical.

You’re certainly backing down from your initial statement that a GM would have to be “on drugs” to have interest in Hayes.

Now it’s no one will want him at full salary.

And that with retention interest will be “extremely limited.”

Well, it’s been understood for a long time that the Flyers will likely retain on Hayes due to the league-wide cap crunch, so that was never at issue.

If interest is “extremely limited,” then I guess they won’t get anything of value in return.

We’ll see.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

All the whining about the Nick Seeler signing, & now he’s probably the biggest league-minimum bargain in the entire NHL, & has another year on the contract, to-boot.

Going to get them at least a 3rd if they trade him.

Where are the condescending “I was told…” posts.