2022/23 Roster Thread XVII: The Days are Getting Longer

[Beef Invictus]

Of course TK changed, he was much better his 4th season onward. First three seasons he was carried by G and Couts.

Now I don't think he changed that much from last season, where he had bad puck luck, other than being utilized on the PK and given an implicit leadership role. Now getting him to spend more time in the "dirty areas" may be one reason his Sh% improved.

I mean his 1st season, when he was trapped on the 4th line by an idiot. He was very clearly playing at a level where if he was put in a better situation, his production would take off. You and certain others argued otherwise, because you had to defend Hakstol. Then everyone who observed that he was actually pretty good was proven right when he was given an opportunity to be good, and you switched to a narrative about how he had magically taken a step forward because of Hakstol putting him on the 4th line. Even though he hadn't changed, and it was easily predicted.

It's more of the same with Frost.

 

[VladDrag]

It’s a joke to profess that Frost was the same player early this season as he is now, & that the only difference is linemates.

It couldn’t be more obvious that many people here don’t watch much.

No one is really making that argument.

So who do you think is a better offensive player, MacEwan or Frost?

 

[Beef Invictus]

I hear if Frost doesn't score 40 points the entire season is his fault, and definitely not Fletcher's.

 

[deadhead]

I mean his 1st season, when he was trapped on the 4th line by an idiot. He was very clearly playing at a level where if he was put in a better situation, his production would take off. You and certain others argued otherwise, because you had to defend Hakstol. Then everyone who observed that he was actually pretty good was proven right when he was given an opportunity to be good, and you switched to a narrative about how he had magically taken a step forward because of Hakstol putting him on the 4th line. Even though he hadn't changed, and it was easily predicted.

It's more of the same with Frost.

TK's first three years he was lousy when he wasn't on the first line, Voracek also fell off but not nearly as much as TK.
In his fourth year he learned how to play without G and Couts carrying his butt.
That's when he became a true top six forward.

 

[Beef Invictus]

TK's first three years he was lousy when he wasn't on the first line, Voracek also fell off but not nearly as much as TK.
In his fourth year he learned how to play without G and Couts carrying his butt.
That's when he became a true top six forward.

It's not as easy as "just play with Couts and Giroux and you'll produce!" You have to have skill.

You're really diminishing TK. And you're wrong. Back when we were watching him and seeing obvious top 6 talent waiting to be used, you insisted it wasn't there and he belonged on the 4th line. Then he got the usage, and lo and behold, he was a top 6 player after all. All because you had to defend every single decision Hakstol made.

Doing the same thing with Frost to defend different people. Most of us here watch the players for their own sake. It's pretty clear you watch them selectively to try and build a narrative in defense of the chosen idol of the time.

 

[TB87]

So who do you think is a better offensive player, MacEwan or Frost?

I think we know what the answer will be. It will be the wrong answer (See: MacEwan).

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I think we know what the answer will be. It will be the wrong answer (See: MacEwan).

 

[Cody Webster]

I see Dead disappeared after getting wrecked

Happens all the time. Then he'll reappear arguing about something else completely ignoring the previous argument

 

[Cody Webster]

It’s a joke to profess that Frost was the same player early this season as he is now, & that the only difference is linemates.

It couldn’t be more obvious that many people here don’t watch much.

Are you referring to the guy that said Frost played poor defensively at the start of the season but got rekt by facts?

 

[Striiker]

Are you referring to the guy that said Frost played poor defensively at the start of the season but got rekt by facts?

Or maybe the guy who said Fletcher did an amazing job because Yandle was both cheaper and the better player than Ghost?

 

[deadhead]

It's not as easy as "just play with Couts and Giroux and you'll produce!" You have to have skill.

You're really diminishing TK. And you're wrong. Back when we were watching him and seeing obvious top 6 talent waiting to be used, you insisted it wasn't there and he belonged on the 4th line. Then he got the usage, and lo and behold, he was a top 6 player after all. All because you had to defend every single decision Hakstol made.

Doing the same thing with Frost to defend different people. Most of us here watch the players for their own sake. It's pretty clear you watch them selectively to try and build a narrative in defense of the chosen idol of the time.

The talent was obvious, but he was also clueless.

Almost every forward looked better playing with Couts, who CYA on defense, allowing them to play more aggressively.
And yes, top players can make limited players look good, Raffl scored 20 goals playing with G, Sheary scored 20 goals playing with Crosby.

The only one around here with an agenda is you, and it's pretty obvious.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Or maybe the guy who said Fletcher did an amazing job because Yandle was both cheaper and the better player than Ghost?

that was such a terrible hottake that aged as expected..

 

[Beef Invictus]

The talent was obvious, but he was also clueless.

Almost every forward looked better playing with Couts, who CYA on defense, allowing them to play more aggressively.
And yes, top players can make limited players look good, Raffl scored 20 goals playing with G, Sheary scored 20 goals playing with Crosby.

The only one around here with an agenda is you, and it's pretty obvious.

My "agenda" is to grasp the unvarnished truth of the team's situation instead of coating it in falsehood.

Raffl was actually a good player, but he was in his prime. Crosby is a ridiculous player to mention. The fact that he had the skill, even when quite young, and produced when given the opportunity isn't luck. It isn't purely a product of who he played with. It was predictable. It was predicted, just not by those who were more worried about defending Hakstol than they were with observing the truth.

 

[deadhead]

The "truth? I can look at your avatar and know what you mean by the truth, comrade.
You will tell any lie to further the revolution!

 

[Striiker]

that was such a terrible hottake that aged as expected..

It’s worse than I remembered.

“iT cOuLdNt bE mOrE oBvIouS tHaT mAnY pEoPlE hErE dOnT WaTcH mUcH”

Same guy:

He got an NTC because he wanted to play for the Flyers. He’s getting more than 900k anywhere else.

Now the D is set and they have more money to spend on goalie & a forward.

This is a win, to say nothing of the fact that I’m sure the players are reinvigorated.

He’s better than Ghost at $3.6M less. Plus good locker room change.

I don’t understand how Ghost fans hate Yandle.

Yandle is an offensive defenseman, like Ghost. Sucks defensively, like Ghost. But is actually better at offense & costs $900k instead of $4.25M. That says nothing of the locker room presence, where Yandle is almost universally loved.

No he’s not. They both suck defensively & Yandle is better offensively. And $3.3M cheaper. Ghost fans should be thrilled they got a similar player at $900k.

They both suck defensively.

I assume Ghost fans like him for his offense, because no one should like him for his defense.

Well, Yandle is better offensively than Ghost. And $3.3M cheaper.

Simple question: Would you prefer to have Ghost at $4.25M or Yandle at $900k?

Even if you think Ghost is the better d-man, to prefer him at $4.25M over Yandle at $900k is insane.

The differences are negligible, even if you want to argue that Ghost is “better” defensively (I disagree; I think they equally suck).

Yeah, it’s negligible. I’m pretty sure more people would take Yandle over Ghost, or at least it would be around 50/50, & one makes $900k & the other $4.25M.

Confirmed with Link: - Keith Yandle Signs One Year Deal With Flyers ($900K W/ NTC)

We are a team. A Cevin Hayes team.

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Striiker]

It’s worse than I remembered.

“iT cOuLdNt bE mOrE oBvIouS tHaT mAnY pEoPlE hErE dOnT WaTcH mUcH”

Same guy:

Confirmed with Link: - Keith Yandle Signs One Year Deal With Flyers ($900K W/ NTC)

We are a team. A Cevin Hayes team.

forums.hfboards.com

Also wasn’t there an argument a little while back over whether Hayes was having an impact on adding all his friends? Because…

 

[Curufinwe]

He’s certainly not maximizing Frost, that’s for sure. He should be playing with TK at a minimum. Then you get the best out of both Frost and TK, and by doing that you make the team better.

Konecny has to be centered by a rookie left wing with seven primary points in 627 minutes at 5on5. There's just no other option, and frankly you should apologize to Torts for suggesting that there is.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Also wasn’t there an argument a little while back over whether Hayes was having an impact on adding all his friends? Because…

old boys club4life....

 

[deadhead]

Konecny has to be centered by a rookie left wing with seven primary points in 627 minutes at 5on5. There's just no other option, and frankly you should apologize to Torts for suggesting that there is.

Well, you could play him with Laughton . . .

Another way to look at it is if you're playing Cates at center, do you give him a veteran RW or a kid trying to find his way like Tippett?
Especially since Frost and Tippett played well together last season.

TK has become a play driver, so has Tippett, but TK is more polished at it and needs less help from his center.
Given that Frost is better at driving play than Cates, if you're looking at it from a team perspective, it makes more sense to give Cates TK.

 

[Curufinwe]

Well, you could play him with Laughton . . .

There's also that guy you raved about as a bona-fide, market value 2C for three years, including last season when he was playing hurt for most of it

 

[Tripod]

Could someone point me to the apology post of Deadhead. You know, the one where he admits he lied about Frost.

Clearly he would apologize after facts proved him wrong, right?

Right?

 

[deadhead]

There's also that guy you raved about as a bona-fide, market value 2C for three years, including last season when he was playing hurt for most of it

We had another center who faded as he reached 30, but was revived by moving to LW.
When Hayes was signed it was generally understood that he'd probably move to wing as he aged.
And so far, given he's scoring at a PPG rate, seems to have worked out pretty well.
And his metrics at LW are excellent, unlike at center.

 

[deadhead]

Could someone point me to the apology post of Deadhead. You know, the one where he admits he lied about Frost.

Clearly he would apologize after facts proved him wrong, right?

Right?

I don't care about some cherry picked metrics!

I watch the games, Frost clearly picked up his game, and was more aggressive on the back check and more physical chasing the puck. And that's when his PT increased.
first ten games, xGA/60: 3.09
Next 16 games, xGA/60: 2.47
Since Dec 7: xGF/60: 2.53

 

[Curufinwe]

When Hayes was signed it was generally understood that he'd probably move to wing as he aged.

Produce one post where you mentioned that before Torts moved him to wing.

Giroux moved to wing to play with Couturier. Not 23 year old Noah Cates.

 

[Tripod]

I don't care about some cherry picked metrics!

I watch the games, Frost clearly picked up his game, and was more aggressive on the back check and more physical chasing the puck. And that's when his PT increased.
first ten games, xGA/60: 3.09
Next 16 games, xGA/60: 2.47
Since Dec 7: xGF/60: 2.53

Lol....you JUST cherry picked metrics.

Liar and a hypocrite. Quite the combo.