2022/23 Roster Thread XIX: 19th Nervous Breakdown

[Columbus Hockey Dad]

I had the postgane show with Torts presser on in the background while I picked at some work last night. He was absolutely noy shitting on him or being ambivalent. He spoke pretty highly of Frost.

I did not see the presser, only read the quote. I truly hope you’re right because it finally seems like Frost might be turning the corner.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

this draft is gunna suck to watch/witness all the metro teams stock up and get better while we come away with 1 player who doesnt even move the needle..
i swear if Chi. lands Bedard.. grrrrr

 

[Rebels57]

Interesting comment from Meltzer on his Buzz blog today. He was replying to a barely sentient, slug-type creature who disputed the notion that Frost ever played on a line with Deslauriers and MacEwen.

HockeyBuzz.com - Forums - Bill Meltzer: Wrap: Frost Sparks 3-2 Win over Canadiens

www.hockeybuzz.com

Oct 23 vs. SJ: On 4th line in 1st and 2nd periods, 8:01 TOI through two perioods. Moved up and played a lot in the third period because TK and Hayes were benched throughout the 3rd pd. Had two point blank chances in 3rd pd. Neither went in.
Oct. 27 vs. FLA: 7:43 TOI, 12 shifts
Oct. 29 vs. CAR: 11:41 TOI (had a 2nd pd breakaway but didn't score. Did get a few 3rd pd shifts with Laughton)
Nov. 1 @ NYR: 12:24 TOI (did see some PP time and one OT shift with Tippett)
Nov 2 @ TOR: healthy scratch with his parents in the stands
Nov 5 @ OTT: 10:04 TOI, 14 shifts (MacEwen scored a goal; Frost was part of the forechecking sequence but did not get an assist)
Nov 8 vs STL: 10:01 TOI
Nov 10 @ CBJ: 8:37 TOI -- there's a back story to this, but this was the beginning of a turning point because Hockey Ops wanted Frost playing more than this with more skill around him.
Nov 12 vs. OTT: 10:43 TOI (still on 4th line but did get back on the power play)
Nov 13 vs DAL: Started on the 4th line, moved up in latter 2nd pd onward. Finished with 12:53 TOI.

10 game stretch -- mostly 4th line in nine, healthy scratched in one.

I'd like to hear more about this..

 

[Bruckuss]

I will say, scratching Frost in TO with parents attending, and also scratching Sanheim in Calgary are both brutal moves by the coach. There's a time and a place to send a message, and these were neither and just horrid

 

[Striiker]

ROFL yeah that was the least glowing endorsement ever.

Imagine:

"Wow, you're wife looks great! The diet must be going really well!"

"Well I told her she really needed to work on that and she still needs to work on it, but sure, she's improved"

 

[Beef Invictus]

JVR and Hayes are gone. Provorov is probably gone.

Laughton is trickier, not so much that Torts loves him, but they have a paucity of LWs.

Hart will depend on Fedotov, Kosolov and how Sandstrom looks (I expect him to get 3-4 more games, remember, before injuries he was a top goalie prospect.) They're not going to bet on Ersson without a fall back plan.

TK is ??? They have a surplus of RWs, he has a lot of value, but they really like him.

Atkinson should be 100% (year to heal his shoulder, legs should be refreshed with a year off).

Farabee - Couturier - Konecny
Atkinson - Frost - Tippett
Laughton - Cates - Foerster (Brink?)
Deslauriers - Desnoyers - Allison
Lycksell, Laczynski

York - Attard?
Sanheim - Risto
Zamula/Seeler - TDA
Andrae in the wings (up by Christmas)

Ersson
Sandstrom
with Fedotov, Kosolov in LHV

If I were to bet on a veteran patch, it would be a RHD and or LW.
Also, if they trade Provorov and Hart/TK, they should obtain at least one NHL ready prospect in return.
If they clear some cap, they might also do a draft pick(s) for RFA deal from a cap strapped team.


Huh what? Torts just said Frost has "really improved there." That's "shitting all over him?"

Did you miss the part of the quote where he talks about how he still isn't sure of him?

 

[Rich Nixon]

I did not see the presser, only read the quote. I truly hope you’re right because it finally seems like Frost might be turning the corner.

You don't have to truly hope man. I've spoken English all my life.

Now, he didn't slather spit all over him, because that's not how he talks usually. He basically said he was doing everything well lately, and they need to continue to see that consistently.



He also talked about him at the very beginning of that presser and sounds a little more noncommittal—that "still not sure of" line is indeed a weird one. I thought he was awkwardly saying that a coach doesn't put a guy out there in those situations if he isn't sure of him. Could be misinterpreting.

But I think the telling thing here is him saying other people in the organization are shocked at how he has developed, presumably as a complete player—but the beat on Frost is that he's always had good skill and a great hockey IQ, so who in the organization was feeding him those doubts, and how soon can those people be fired?

 

[Curufinwe]

I'd like to hear more about this..

Maybe it'll come out when Torts is fired.

 

[flyersnorth]

I will say, scratching Frost in TO with parents attending, and also scratching Sanheim in Calgary are both brutal moves by the coach. There's a time and a place to send a message, and these were neither and just horrid

I generally like Torts. If he wants to scratch a guy who, in his opinion, deserves to be scratched, then so be it. Even if it's in the player's hometown.

But to pretend like he didn't know Sanheim's connection with Calgary felt very dishonest to me. I can't prove it, but I don't believe for a second he had no idea.

Has he even scratched Sanheim or Frost again, outside of those hometown games?

It very much felt punitive for both players.

 

[VladDrag]

I did not see the presser, only read the quote. I truly hope you’re right because it finally seems like Frost might be turning the corner.

Frost has been this player for the last 60 games, since mid-December once his ice-time started increasing and he started playing with skill.

 

[Striiker]

As with pretty much everything he does, Torts was acting like a prick, serving his ridiculous ego, doing stupid shit that hurt the team, and relying on gullible fans blind adoration to get away with it.

 

[VladDrag]

You don't have to truly hope man. I've spoken English all my life.

Now, he didn't slather spit all over him, because that's not how he talks usually. He basically said he was doing everything well lately, and they need to continue to see that consistently.


He also talked about him at the very beginning of that presser and sounds a little more noncommittal—that "still not sure of" line is indeed a weird one. I thought he was awkwardly saying that a coach doesn't put a guy out there in those situations if he isn't sure of him. Could be misinterpreting.

But I think the telling thing here is him saying other people in the organization are shocked at how he has developed, presumably as a complete player—but the beat on Frost is that he's always had good skill and a great hockey IQ, so who in the organization was feeding him those doubts, and how soon can those people be fired?

I don't like Torts, I think his methodologies are outdated, his style of play is outdated, and overall he seems like an asshole. Last night's comments about a young player who has seen growth throughout the season were odd. The still not sure of line is very perplexing to me as well. On the other side of that though, for the latter portions of the 2nd, and most of the 3rd, Torts put Frost with Tippett and Farabee, replacing Cates as center. This has been somewhat common for Torts regarding Frost. He'll recognize his good games, and try to get him on the ice more, but at the post-game presser, he always keeps the same kind of message regarding consistency. It very likely his motivational tactic.

 

[deadhead]

But I think the telling thing here is him saying other people in the organization are shocked at how he has developed, presumably as a complete player—but the beat on Frost is that he's always had good skill and a great hockey IQ, so who in the organization was feeding him those doubts, and how soon can those people be fired?

I have never seen that about Frost, he showed great speed at the combine, and was an elite scorer in the CHL, but while considered a playmaker with good vision, I've never read that about him nor have I seen that in his play. He's smarter than Tippett or TK, but well below Cates and Farabee.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I have never seen that about Frost, he showed great speed at the combine, and was an elite scorer in the CHL, but while considered a playmaker with good vision, I've never read that about him nor have I seen that in his play. He's smarter than Tippett or TK, but well below Cates and Farabee.

Cates?????

He's also made plays and passes that we haven't seen out of Farabee, too.

You do not need to keep saying outrageous things to justify bad assessments from Tortorella and management.

 

[Magua]

I have never seen that about Frost […] I've never read that about him nor have I seen that in his play.

Oh, well, that’s simple. It’s because you’re not good at this. And you can’t see beyond certain unshakable biases and narratives.

His IQ and craftiness stood out in 2017 watching Greyhounds games. Spare me.

C Morgan Frost (2017, 27th, PHI)

Not sure how there is no thread on him. If I missed it, mods can merge, but i didn't find anything in the search. Anyways, hes got good wheels, is an excellent playmaker, and plays a 200 foot game. Not sure why he isn't getting more talk, but I think he's a 2nd/3rd rounder. Here's our...

forums.hfboards.com

 

[wasup]

Don't let the facts get in the way of a knee jerk response.

Fans just aren't used to Torts' style, funny thing is, most of his players get used to it.
He pushes players to get more out of them, a few can't handle it, most are uncomfortable at first, then realize they're uncomfortable b/c they're not used to a HC consistently demanding they get better.

He's pushed all the young players, Tippett to be more consistent, Frost to put consistent effort away from the puck, Allison to play more of a north-south game (face it, he lacks the skill level to play a skill game), York to be more aggressive in the O-zone, and so on. When he stops pushing a player, I suspect he's either very happy (Cates) or has given up on the player (Hayes) or accepts their limitations (Laughton). While it's easy to get into Torts' doghouse, it's also easy to get out of it - compare to AV, for example.

One thing that jumps out at me watching the games this year, whenever an opposing team has an odd man rush, Flyers players quickly show up on the screen and end the opposing team's number advantage - that's the result of the emphasis on backchecking - when Flyers see the puck going the opposite direction they fly down the ice to get back into the play. Compare to previous seasons.

You are so bad at actual player evaluation it criminal . All you are doing is repeating what Tort's says and taking that as gospel . Tort's puts guys in boxes and they are to play that style and it does not matter their skill set .

Frost has been very solid away from the puck all season and only real flaw was over handling the puck in certain areas of the ice which would get him in trouble .

Cates has been solid defensively but is an absolute disaster on the draw 7 for 22 last night again and Tort's keeps running him out to take the draw late in games in our own end . He is a F ing winger.

Allison in Ahl and his stint the NHL earlier proved he has skill and very good shot . Under Tort's right off the back he told him to dump and chase and absolutely no East West or he will be out of the league . He predetermined what he wanted out of him and the kid has zero confidence in his creating or scoring ability . Who is to blame for that ?

York is doing everything right and will develop more as he gains experience , leave him the F alone .

Laczynski might as well go F himself , when he plays it's with shit truck and there is no offense created when he is out only SMASH Hulk .

Tippet is coming along fine but Tort's has given him the keys to the empire and mins in every situation .

Tort's pisses off players , holds some players accountable and others not and manipulates to get his agenda .

ps Penciling Brink onto the roster next year is absurd . Have you actually watched him play in LV , he looks slow and the NHL is way quicker than the AHL . His ability to catch someone on a back check or to carry the puck up between the blue lines is not good at all . I'm not saying he won't eventually get there but things would have to drastically change this summer for it to be next year .

 

[mja]

deady comes from a time when you would read boxscores in the paper and rely on conventional hockey wisdom to evaluate players. He never evolved out of that mindset. He simply isn't very good at making evaluations.

 

[wasup]

Guys that I would like to see gone next year .
#1 JVR , and he will be cause of contract over
#2 Hayes , he is to slow for the modern game
#3 TDA , his net negative affect on this team far out weight his positive
#4 Atkinson , his age does not fit the teams timeline and his injuries the last couple years combined with his contract concerns me .
#5 Shit Truck , no part of him deserves to be here but we all know it will be . He plays 8 mins a night and that includes pk time . He has no skill and ties up 1.75 mil , no purpose .

 

[Rebels57]

deady comes from a time when you would read boxscores in the paper and rely on conventional hockey wisdom to evaluate players. He never evolved out of that mindset. He simply isn't very good at making evaluations.

Very good at getting everyone to pay attention to him though.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I would not be surprised to see one of the smarter GMs go after JVR and turn him into a steal. He's certainly a team player and good soldier; when Tortorella tells him to play Tortorella Hockey, he does. And it's been bad for him. But he does it anyway. A team that wants offense out of him is likely to get it.

 

[Starat327]

Oh, well, that’s simple. It’s because you’re not good at this. And you can’t see beyond certain unshakable biases and narratives.

His IQ and craftiness stood out in 2017 watching Greyhounds games. Spare me.

C Morgan Frost (2017, 27th, PHI)

Not sure how there is no thread on him. If I missed it, mods can merge, but i didn't find anything in the search. Anyways, hes got good wheels, is an excellent playmaker, and plays a 200 foot game. Not sure why he isn't getting more talk, but I think he's a 2nd/3rd rounder. Here's our...

forums.hfboards.com

Just for giggles, I did a quick "morgan frost draft profile" search. All dated 2017, all call out his intelligence and ability to read the game as high strengths.

The Flyers own Meltzer:

Frost, who celebrates his 21st birthday on May 14, is a player with a very high ceiling offensively. If it were strictly a matter of skill level or innate hockey intelligence, he would not have needed time in the American Hockey League

Button(if he's your cup of tea):

Craig Button, on NBCSN: "Morgan's a real smart player. He's not going to overwhelm you or catch your attention with up-and-down, toe drags, and that kind of play. But he's a playmaker. He gets the puck to his wingers…smart, dependable, knows where to be on the ice, can break up plays…This is an idea that probably, in three years time, Morgan Frost will be ready to try and take a shot at a spot in the lineup."

And last but not least, elite prospects:

You have to be purposefully ignorant to claim that Frosts IQ wasn't very clearly called out as one of his strengths. Like... willfully disingenuous levels of "never read that".

 

[ponder719]

ROFL yeah that was the least glowing endorsement ever.

Torts' endorsements glow like Polonium 210.

 

[Striiker]

All player evaluation is done within the “How can I use this to defend Master Torts” mindset.

Same as when it was AV.

Same as when it was Hakstol.

Liars always lie.

 

[Flyer lurker]

I’ve been perfectly clear. Multiple times.

If someone wants to respond to my post (which was directed at no specific person), ignore what I’m saying, then talk about something else, that’s on them.

Everybody knows Larry Bird wouldn't need athletic ability against Lebron James.

Everyone knows fat Babe Ruth would hit Degrom no problem

Everyone knows the greatest qb is 4-0 sb Terry Bradshaw.

duh

 

[Curufinwe]

I have never seen that about Frost

You are genuinely the worst talent evaluator on this entire forum.